Practicing for Gaston's

So far, everytime I've hoped and prayed for good weather, it turns to crap. When I don't think about it at all (ie, not flying that day), it's beautiful.

Guess I'll be hoping for bad weather?
 
NickDBrennan said:
So far, everytime I've hoped and prayed for good weather, it turns to crap. When I don't think about it at all (ie, not flying that day), it's beautiful.

Guess I'll be hoping for bad weather?

Well, last year the weather was a mess. Storms across the country. Lots of people couldn't make it that planned to come. But those that did make it were so much fun!
 
Ed Guthrie said:
Steve, as a Mooney owner I love reading all of the wive's tales regarding what a Mooney can't do. Best laugh I've read in a week or two. Definetly identifies who has flown a Mooney and who hasn't.

See y'all at Gaston's.

Wow!!!
 
Assuming conditions are at all reasonable the grass will work for me. POH has the performance charts for grass, so it's OK with the factory. Prop clearance on my M20J is 10.5" so as long as I don't land it like a wheelbarrow that should be ok too.
However, I'd love to hear more Mooney OWTs. You know, just to get another good laugh.
 
Moxie said:

Moxie, you're a Mooney owner, aren't you? Don't you hear the usual collection of Mooney misnomers?:

Can't operate off anything but paved, perfect runways.
Small cabin; no head room and/or no leg room and/or no shoulder room.
Impossible to land.
Vicious stall characteristics.
No load hauling capability.
Can't land in short fields.
Yada yada.

I spent last evening talking Mooney capability with a bunch of non-Mooney owner/pilots, hearing most of the above and several more. After that session I wandered home to read the same misnomers here. Good for a laugh at least.

I have a ~300 hour private pilot right now, zero complex time, transitioning into his new (to him), very well equipped, '87 M20J. By the second landing he had become convinced to fly pitch for airspeed, power to hit the aim point, and to nail 71 kts down final -- IOW he had whipped the Cessna/Piper pilot bad habit of letting the nose tuck under when high and counting on the broadside 4x8 plywood sheet aerodynamic characteristics to cover for less than stellar technique. Third landing and he was landing on the numbers and turning off inside 1500'. How many folks believe significantly less than 2000' is a normal landing distance for a Mooney?

The good news is that another Mooney fanatic was born.
 
Ken Ibold said:
I think you mean "who has flown a Mooney properly and who hasn't."

You have a point. However, how does one explain the "no headroom/legroom" and other myths that would be dispelled if the speaker ever even sat in a Mooney?

The good news is that the myths and OWTs keep the market depressed for those who appreciate a great airplane at a bargain price.
 
Ed Guthrie said:
Moxie, you're a Mooney owner, aren't you? Don't you hear the usual collection of Mooney misnomers?:

Can't operate off anything but paved, perfect runways.
Small cabin; no head room and/or no leg room and/or no shoulder room.
Impossible to land.
Vicious stall characteristics.
No load hauling capability.
Can't land in short fields.
Yada yada.

I spent last evening talking Mooney capability with a bunch of non-Mooney owner/pilots, hearing most of the above and several more. After that session I wandered home to read the same misnomers here. Good for a laugh at least.

I have a ~300 hour private pilot right now, zero complex time, transitioning into his new (to him), very well equipped, '87 M20J. By the second landing he had become convinced to fly pitch for airspeed, power to hit the aim point, and to nail 71 kts down final -- IOW he had whipped the Cessna/Piper pilot bad habit of letting the nose tuck under when high and counting on the broadside 4x8 plywood sheet aerodynamic characteristics to cover for less than stellar technique. Third landing and he was landing on the numbers and turning off inside 1500'. How many folks believe significantly less than 2000' is a normal landing distance for a Mooney?

The good news is that another Mooney fanatic was born.


Ed, I landed and came to a full stop within 750 feet last Thursday. I surprised myself. I never land so purty in any other plane. Mooneys rule! However, I would NEVER land on a grass field unless I had walked it. There's just too little clearance between the prop and the ground and I don't believe that bumps being an issue is an old wives tale. I believe they are an issue 'cause we just have such low profiles. The rest of the tales that you listed are just that, tall tales..... wellllll.... if I do keep gaining weight like I am with this quiting smoking thang I'll have to ditch one of the rear seats so I don't blow the W&B. (wink, wink)

You don't agree with me about grass strips? Where am I thinking incorrectly? I've certainly been wrong about many things in my past and would be happy to find out that I'm wrong about this.... and yeah, yeah, I'm just being lazy when it comes to getting on my back to clean out the dang wheel wells.
 
Ed Guthrie said:
You have a point. However, how does one explain the "no headroom/legroom" and other myths that would be dispelled if the speaker ever even sat in a Mooney?

No, there's *too much* room in a Mooney. I even have to add rudder extenders just so I can fly them.

sigh... oh to be long and lanky......
 
Moxie said:
However, I would NEVER land on a grass field unless I had walked it. There's just too little clearance between the prop and the ground and I don't believe that bumps being an issue is an old wives tale. I believe they are an issue 'cause we just have such low profiles.

First, walking the runway is always a good idea if it can be accomplished in a practical manner. However, walking a runway that is 800 nm away is somewhat less than practical. I walk the runway if I can. If not, I call ahead and ask the airport folks what kinds of aircraft regularly go in/out of the runway. Any other aircraft of my make(/model) regularly use the runway? No? Then perhaps a V-tail Bonanza? Or perhaps some other retract single? Failing that, a low, slow pass usually gives a good idea of the surface conditions.

With respect to the myth about Mooney props being inordinately low, if it weren't for the fact that Mr. Wetzler has my V35B POH I'd dispel this myth right now. The Mooney has 9-1/2" prop clearance. Eamon, how much clearance on your C182's prop? With the strut fully compressed? I don't believe it is much more than 9-1/2", if it is that at all. Or, IIRC, the Bonanza is is much lower than 9-1/2" when fully compressed (the front strut on a V35B has much, much more compression stroke than the front strut on a Mooney). From my experience and from reading the FAA reports, the NTSB reports, and the Nall report on Mooney's, Mooney's aren't all that prone to prop strikes--despite the abundant.

You don't agree with me about grass strips? Where am I thinking incorrectly?

I don't think you're necessarily thinking incorrectly. I think you are merely exercising a more conservative approach. There is a gentleman I know only by email who runs an M20J off grass all of the time (Australian grass at that). FWIW, when it comes to Mooney's I believe folks tend to believe the myths and OWTs and never check the reality. The OWTs get firmly entrenched in folklore because so few people have actually flown a Mooney. One of these days run yours onto grass. It won't hurt the plane and you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.
 
Ed Guthrie said:
Moxie, you're a Mooney owner, aren't you? Don't you hear the usual collection of Mooney misnomers?:

Can't operate off anything but paved, perfect runways.
Small cabin; no head room and/or no leg room and/or no shoulder room.
Impossible to land.
Vicious stall characteristics.
No load hauling capability.
Can't land in short fields.
Yada yada.

I spent last evening talking Mooney capability with a bunch of non-Mooney owner/pilots, hearing most of the above and several more. After that session I wandered home to read the same misnomers here. Good for a laugh at least.

I have a ~300 hour private pilot right now, zero complex time, transitioning into his new (to him), very well equipped, '87 M20J. By the second landing he had become convinced to fly pitch for airspeed, power to hit the aim point, and to nail 71 kts down final -- IOW he had whipped the Cessna/Piper pilot bad habit of letting the nose tuck under when high and counting on the broadside 4x8 plywood sheet aerodynamic characteristics to cover for less than stellar technique. Third landing and he was landing on the numbers and turning off inside 1500'. How many folks believe significantly less than 2000' is a normal landing distance for a Mooney?

The good news is that another Mooney fanatic was born.

Flying the airplane is a piece of cake. I transitioned into my mine with only 28 hours in the log. For the most part, very forgiving of bad landings, thankfully:) I get nervous even taxiing off the hard surface onto the grass...only takes once to ruin your day and I ended up with a nice nik in the prop the last time I did that. The structure is designed for the wings to hold the fuse in the bumps, not the other way around. Does that make a difference? Not sure, but I dont like betting alot of money on what I'm not sure of. As for stalls, well, mine stalls and recovers nicely but I have a buddy who spun his J model. He was not pleased with the result. He was uncoordinated when he stalled and he said it just whipped over on its back. Thats all I need to hear to know enough not to do it. I live in Mooney country up here. There's more Mooneys here than in Kerrville by a large margin. The fbo's been sellin' Mooneys since they were available and the owner says that if you let a spin develop, after 4 or 5 turns the plane will flatten out and result in the disruption of the air flow over the tail surface. Recovery after that is problematic. When it comes to flying that airplane, I trust his judgement without question.
I let the nose touch down first once....only once:hairraise: At Stinson actually. I didtn push forward on the stick because I wasn runnin' outa runway or anything like that, just tired and wore out from the heat and lotsa stop and goes and I let it settle ever so gently...then BANG!! The nose leaped into the air like taking an over inflated basketball and slamming it on the runway as hard as you could. Got my attention. I held the yolk back because I had been taught what to do, and not to do when and if that happend and I just came down a little hard on the mains.
Its a wonderul airplane, great speed for the money, hauls a ton of stuff, takes off in like 600 ft given the right conditions (my e model anyway) and will haul 3 200lb guys and another 50lbs of stuff plus full fuel and still get off the ground in 800ft. Wings and gear are in the right place:) I dont know why most people dont own one. If ya tried to give me a 172, I wouldnt take it, yet they're not significantly less expensive than a c model. Not worth keeping up, where ya gonna go at 100mph? Anyway, to each his own and all that.
 
Moxie said:
I haven't measured the distance from Hammer's prop to the ground, but on my last Mooney it was only 9 1/2", and that was AFTER I had replaced the struts..... wouldn't take much of a bump at all to have a prop strike with that little clearance.

Not to mention what a pain it is cleaning the dirt out of the wheel wells after a grass landing. Blech. :hairraise:

No thank you!

Moxie (and anyone else),

I'll give you a lift over to 3M0 in the 182. :)

Kent
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Moxie (and anyone else),

I'll give you a lift over to 3M0 in the 182. :)

Kent
I took N201MZ into Harvard IL (grass) with about 20 gallons of fuel aboard to visit Erect-a-Tube, when I was bidding to build a 10 plex at my local airport (1996). It did fine. By the numbers, add a touch of power of a short field technique flare....not a problem. But don't go with much fuel. Too much wing flexation with the donuts- keep it light and slow.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Moxie (and anyone else),

I'll give you a lift over to 3M0 in the 182. :)

Kent

We should talk. It's seems just silly for us to take two planes.

Have you reserved a room yet? Which days are you planning on going?

:blowkiss:
 
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