PPL to IFR

Jhernandez04

Jhernandez04

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
955
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Arlington
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Display name:
TheHulk
As I sit here a day before my hitch. "Hitch" is what's commonly referred to in the oilfield as your working days that can very from 1 week on/ 1 week off all the way up to a 28/28 day rotation. My hitch is 14/14. Anyways, tomorrow is my first day back and I had planned to fly to work (the main reason I bought my plane) and I'm trying to plan the flight only to realize I can't fly because it's going to be IFR @KSAT tomorrow morning when I should land.

The trip is KGKY --> KPEZ. Depart GKY @9am.

So now I have to drive. The wife is kinda upset that it never seems to work out with the flying to work and back gig. Obviously this makes me want to do the 10 day IFR course.

Any suggestions on where I could get it done around the DFW. I appreciate the feedback and purposefuly didn't search so I could hear from you fine people.

-Hulk Angry
 
I'm sure you will get plenty of input with all the CFIs on the board. Get it done you'll be much happier.
 
I've heard good things about Gatts in Kansas.
 
frfly172 said:
I'm sure you will get plenty of input with all the CFIs on the board. Get it done you'll be much happier.
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At this point I think it would make my wife happier. But either way I really want my dispatch rate to be increased.
 
Here is the one Aggie Mike is doing right now.
http://www.iflyifr.com/

Go get the instrument flying handbook. I went on a couple IFR training flights with my dad and then I got that book and began to question how much energy I have to learn all that stuff.

It is many many times more complex than the PPL.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Here is the one Aggie Mike is doing right now.
http://www.iflyifr.com/

Go get the instrument flying handbook. I went on a couple IFR training flights with my dad and then I got that book and began to question how much energy I have to learn all that stuff.

It is many many times more complex than the PPL.
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Yea and I struggled with the PPL. I figured I tried the whole learning on my own and with vagabond cfi's and so possibly with a structured school atmosphere I would fare better.

If that's all I'm doing I think it would work.
 
Aggie Mike is doing it right now through PIC and RonLevy is his instructor.

Since I had VA benefits to use(had to be 141 school), I flew to Addison and did the 10 day course given by American Flyers. It was intense, very intense. By day 4 I was wondering what I got myself into. But by day 6 it was all coming together. Long days too, 8 to 5 and a few hours of homework each night. Very worth it IMHO.
 
simtech said:
Aggie Mike is doing it right now through PIC and RonLevy is his instructor.

Since I had VA benefits to use(had to be 141 school), I flew to Addison and did the 10 day course given by American Flyers. It was intense, very intense. By day 4 I was wondering what I got myself into. But by day 6 it was all coming together. Long days too, 8 to 5 and a few hours of homework each night. Very worth it IMHO.
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Addison is 30 minutes away. That could work. How much was your class if you paid out of your own pocket?
 
Yep – KSAT has a lot of low overcast days.

I do not know about the 10 day IFR classes but I do know after 3 months training 2 or 3 times a week for my IFR rating I still did not feel I was at the top of my game. It was not until 100 hours later with many actual hours in hard IFR, did I feel truly confident in IMC conditions.

Be careful and do not rush this training.
 
I think those 10 day courses assume you come in having read all of the material first. I haven't done one myself, so I could be wrong.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Yea and I struggled with the PPL. I figured I tried the whole learning on my own and with vagabond cfi's and so possibly with a structured school atmosphere I would fare better.

If that's all I'm doing I think it would work.
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Having followed your training over the last few months….

I think you do need structure. But the LAST thing you need is a cram course.

Especially now. You still have much to learn about VFR. Your check ride was less than a week ago!

You may be ready for this when you can plan and successfully execute a flight by ded reckoning alone, over 100 miles. You won't be able to with sloppy headings or airspeed, for instance.
 
MAKG1 said:
Having followed your training over the last few months….

I think you do need structure. But the LAST thing you need is a cram course.

Especially now. You still have much to learn about VFR. Your check ride was less than a week ago!

You may be ready for this when you can plan and successfully execute a flight by ded reckoning alone, over 100 miles. You won't be able to with sloppy headings or airspeed, for instance.
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Being low time and only just finishing my book work for IFR I wouldn't take my opinion with much weight but, for what it's worth, I agree with the above. IFR requires you to really be on the ball and there's nothing wrong with making sure you're ready.

That said, I don't think you shouldn't try, just realistically evaluate your abilities. Find someone who will take you up for either some actual or simulated time or bum a passenger seat along with someone doing some actual (or, heck, be a safety pilot for someone. Might as well put that PPL to use).

Try to get a feel for what's needed to fly IFR and see where you can make improvements. If you think you're up to the task then hit the books and start studying. Most of the 10 day courses want (or require) you to have the knowledge exam completed. Also, see what hours you need, you may have to get a few cross-country hours in there.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Addison is 30 minutes away. That could work. How much was your class if you paid out of your own pocket?
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It's expensive no doubt. I think my invoice was around $11k. I went in with not much knowledge. They give you a workbook to read and I did read that some before I went. I did their course and graduated there but the weather was too bad on day 10 to do the check ride so I had to do it back home. I've been on a few IFR flights since then in actual, am I a pro..heck no, am I safe and still learning..Yep.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Yea and I struggled with the PPL. I figured I tried the whole learning on my own and with vagabond cfi's and so possibly with a structured school atmosphere I would fare better.

If that's all I'm doing I think it would work.
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Jesse

I know you have your own plane, but I heard some good things about Redbird Skyport. Its just too far for me, but I am extremely happy with my instructor. He's been written up in many magazines, has an aviation show, and has experience in a Dakota among a multitude of other aircraft. If you'd like PM me and I can send his info to you.

I don't know Ron from this board personally, but I believe he does the 10 day training. There also is a guy in Florida that I know does it.

In the beginning of May (4-5) there is a great weekend school I am attending in the northern burbs of Chicago. They have an incredibly high pass rate. In any event, you should plan on having your written passed first.

Good luck.
 
simtech said:
Oh yeah I forgot you have your own plane. Id go with Ron for sure, that way you are not paying for a plane rental and he comes to you.
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That seems like one of the possibilities that makes the most sense.


I'll get the XC requirements made and then try and find a school or something that can help me pass and understand the written portion. The PPL was tough for me because I did all the ground work myself up until the last few weeks. I recognize I have a ways to go, but its frustrating to be grounded when you need it most.

Granted I grounded myself but I don't want to bite off more than I can chew. Safe pilot kinda thing. :redface:
 
I sincerely don't want to come off as preachy or condescending... I'm in no position to do so. So with that risk, I submit this for thought:

Be careful to not view getting the IR as a checkbox that gets marked-off then days when it's overcast are no big deal.

The IR, IMO, is a license to get killed without a good foundation of experience to support it. I remember clearly getting my IR and thinking it would be a long while before I ventured out in IMC by myself. Luckily I had a good friend who was a check-airman with Delta who took me under his wings and did another 40-50 hours of very, very intensive dual *after* I had my IR before I felt comfortable going out in even 1500 OVC by myself. Then, I progressively lowered my own personal limits to 1000, 800, 600, 400, and 200 over the next 100 hours or so. Now, it's my absolute favorite type of flying and I go all the time, but I think it takes a good bit of experience before you've seen many situations, got yourself confused and turned-around in the real stuff (and sorting it out yourself, going home and thinking about it), having ATC throw some good curveball your way (or get a trainee ATC guy when conditions are bad -- and you use the judgement to say "unable" back), *really* learning weather, experiencing weather forecasts completely falling apart and having to find a Plan B, C, D, etc... Then -- and only then IMO -- you can use it like the wonderful utility tool it is. Until that point, it's just a nearly meaningless plastic license in your flightbag/wallet.

Best of luck in using your plane safely to get the utility you're after. It's totally possible and is great -- you'll triple your love of owning a plane. 'Just don't rush it and become a stat.

Just my 2 cents / hope you take the above in the spirit it is intended.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
That seems like one of the possibilities that makes the most sense.
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I concur


Jhernandez04 said:
I'll get the XC requirements made and then try and find a school or something that can help me pass and understand the written portion.
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Strictly for the written do www.sheppardair.com

In as little as a weekend you can have the written done. I studied the sheppard air for I think it was 2 weeks and made an 87. I did that before starting my 10 course so I didn't have to deal with that. Follow their program and you will pass the test in no time.
 
My point of view since I'm currently doing the IFR training and knowing something of your journey before your checkride....

First: With the ink still being wet on your PPL, just go fly. Get some more experience visiting a wide range of airports. Gain experience and comfort in your airplane. Build time.

Second: Start working on study for the IFR written exam. Pick up a few of the good text books like...
  • FAA: Instrument Flying Handbook (free @ www.FAA.gov)
  • FAA: Instrument Procedures Handbook (free @ www.FAA.gov)
  • ASA: "The Complete Advanced Pilot" by Bob Gardner
  • ASA: "The Instrument Flight Manual" by William Kershner"
  • Amazon: "Rod Machado's Instrument Flight Handbook"
... and start reading. Don't worry too much about gaining expert status on the material. Read to gain a solid foundation of the principles of what is being taught in those books.

If you're more of a visual person, then the video series you see mentioned (King, Sportys, and others) can help.

Third: Keep flying and spending more time in the air, build time. Have fun. Enjoy yourself.

Fourth: Once your have a good handle on what you're reading, start prepping for the written exam. For this, I found the Sheppard Air product to be the least expensive and the most effective. At only $40.00 it's a bargain when compared to other systems out there. At first, their system doesn't seem to make sense, but it does work. After 3.5 8-hr days of taking on all 950+ questions and how to answer them, I was scoring 93-95% on the 3 practice exams I took. They provided the endorsement and I took the exam on the 4th day. Passed with an 88 (whoop!). Bonus was they refunded my purchase via their "No Surprises" policy when I shared 4 of the new questions that wasn't in their test bank.

Fifth: Continue to Fly... Gain experience, have fun, enjoy your privileges.

Six: Once you're super comfortable operating your plane, THEN engage the services of an instructor. There are several good ones in the DFW metroplex, and the folks over on DFWPilots can provide info on those. With your current 2-week on / 2-week off hitch rotation, you might benefit from the Professional Instrument Course (PIC) system that I'm currently working through. You could even engage the services of Ron Levy through them. I can tell you that they system is very effective. The first 2 days, some of the material didn't make much sens, but now at day 5 of 10, the puzzle pieces are falling into place very quickly.

------------------------------------

We are planning on returning to Denton on Sunday morning. If you are still in town, perhaps we could work it so you're at my hangar when we arrive and you can have some time to ask Ron Levy some questions.

Anyhow, the biggest thing you can do is to go out and gain experience... get past the 100-hour "danger" zone that young pilots experience. And start reading or watching videos to take on the required knowledge.

If you'd like to discuss more when we are both back in town, we can arrange a weekend brunch at The Beacon Cafe over at T67.
 
PPC1052 said:
I think those 10 day courses assume you come in having read all of the material first. I haven't done one myself, so I could be wrong.
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The PIC 10-day program is based on already having passed the written (it's 14 days otherwise). I still strongly recommend a certain amount of reading before the course starts, mostly weather material.
 
simtech said:
Aggie Mike is doing it right now through PIC and RonLevy is his instructor.

Since I had VA benefits to use(had to be 141 school), I flew to Addison and did the 10 day course given by American Flyers. It was intense, very intense. By day 4 I was wondering what I got myself into. But by day 6 it was all coming together. Long days too, 8 to 5 and a few hours of homework each night. Very worth it IMHO.
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The Days go by VERY fast. Today was Day 5, Approaches. Started at 8:00, about 2.5 hrs of ground school, picked up sandwiches at Subway, flew for 1.7hrs. Took a break to eat and discuss afternoon flying. Flew for 1.8 until I needed a break. Finally flew 2.2 doing DME Arcs and the RNAV 30 to KRAS circuling to 12 to land. Pulled up to the fuel pump at 7:00pm. Fueld, parked the plane, back at the hotel around 7:40pm for paperwork and debrief. Tonight I have the night off from major homework, but normally I'd have some studying to do until 11:00pm. Then bed, and up at 6:30am for breakfast, shower and an 8:00 start.

Did I mention how fast the time is going?
Jhernandez04 said:
Addison is 30 minutes away. That could work. How much was your class if you paid out of your own pocket?
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Since you own your plane, versus rent, you'll save something over my situation since I'm paying a wet rental price (fortunately $110/hr tach for a C182P) [note: a member share may becoming available if anyone in DFW is interested]. But I budgeted $10,000 for this. Lion's share goes to PIC, then room costs here at Port A for 10 nights x 2 people, then food, Ron's plane ticket, and incidentals. Likely I won't spend that much, but that's what I saved up for.
 
simtech said:
Oh yeah I forgot you have your own plane. Id go with Ron for sure, that way you are not paying for a plane rental and he comes to you.
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And he very much customizes "how to fly IFR" to you and your plane.

Many parts of the course where one instructor would use a "theoretical plan" and a a "theoretical configuration" of said plane, Ron says, "Now in your plane for this segment, you set your prop to 2350 indicated, power to 16" MP..." In other words, details that correct for me and 55WB.
 
I leveraged a 10-day IFR course to get my IR. I'd suggest completing the cross country requirement and getting some hood time under your belt before you start the program. Of the 10 days, one was the checkride, and one was solid book work/ground ops in anticipation of the oral. Realistically you will have 8 - 8.5 days of actually flying, and if you need 40 hours of hood time that is five solid hobbs per day under the hood at a minimum. I think I would've benefited by having about 10-15 hours simulated prior to arriving. We could've spent more time on approaches and less on long flights building time. I also would've liked to fly more of the approaches without the hood to get a better visual of how the charts translated to flight over terrain, etc. We just couldn't do that in the time we had available.

As someone else mentioned - I too returned to my home airport and spent quite a few more hours in dual instruction immediately after the program.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
As I sit here a day before my hitch. "Hitch" is what's commonly referred to in the oilfield as your working days that can very from 1 week on/ 1 week off all the way up to a 28/28 day rotation. My hitch is 14/14. Anyways, tomorrow is my first day back and I had planned to fly to work (the main reason I bought my plane) and I'm trying to plan the flight only to realize I can't fly because it's going to be IFR @KSAT tomorrow morning when I should land.

The trip is KGKY --> KPEZ. Depart GKY @9am.

So now I have to drive. The wife is kinda upset that it never seems to work out with the flying to work and back gig. Obviously this makes me want to do the 10 day IFR course.

Any suggestions on where I could get it done around the DFW. I appreciate the feedback and purposefuly didn't search so I could hear from you fine people.

-Hulk Angry
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The PIC courses are as well formed as any. I did mine in 7 days with an independent CFII.
 
Ron Levy said:
Faster than even Mike realizes -- today was Day SIX.
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SO that's why you did that jump to the left and then brought your knees in tight when you exited the aircraft yesterday....

Silly Time Warp.

tumblr_l90gg5Y7AX1qditd8o1_1280.jpg
 
AggieMike88 said:
SO that's why you did that jump to the left and then brought your knees in tight when you exited the aircraft yesterday....

Silly Time Warp.

tumblr_l90gg5Y7AX1qditd8o1_1280.jpg
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It's when he starts with the pelvic thrust, that's when you start to worry....
 
Henning said:
It's when he starts with the pelvic thrust, that's when you start to worry....
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Well, there was one part of a particular flight where a Samuel L. Jackson movie came to mind....
 
Scott@KTYR said:
Yep – KSAT has a lot of low overcast days.

I do not know about the 10 day IFR classes but I do know after 3 months training 2 or 3 times a week for my IFR rating I still did not feel I was at the top of my game. It was not until 100 hours later with many actual hours in hard IFR, did I feel truly confident in IMC conditions.

Be careful and do not rush this training.
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I am in absolute agreement.
 
If you haven't already, get comfortable with the radio.. Use flight following on your short and not so short VFR flights in the area.

You will hear ATC talking to IFR flights. You will get used to listening for your call sign, and a lot of the information you give on a flight following request is identical to what you would give for a pop-up IFR request.
 
At one pilot lunch, we decided they need a sport IFR Just to get you through a thin layer when ceilings are low ;)
 
um, yeah. I was part of the "Sport IFR" conversation...in fun of course.

However, none of us were in agreement that ANY flight under such conditions should start like this. That dude was just asking for trouble before he even taxied out...

November was current, wind variable at 5 knots, visibility 1/8th mile, fog, vertical visibility of 100 feet above ground level (agl). At 0751, the controller transmitted to the pilot that he had his IFR release and stated "the runway is not visible, so it's at your own risk." The pilot responded shortly thereafter, " understand." At 0752, the controller informed the pilot that he had two minutes for his IFR release. The pilot responded that he did not hear a "cleared for takeoff." The controller responded that "I cannot clear you for takeoff because I don't have visibility on the runway, so ah, the release is all yours and it's at your own risk sir." The pilot responded "ok, 25 Juliet, rolling." No further radio communications were heard from the pilot.
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kenjr said:
um, yeah. I was part of the "Sport IFR" conversation...in fun of course.

However, none of us were in agreement that ANY flight under such conditions should start like this. That dude was just asking for trouble before he even taxied out...
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Yea I also read where he turned 45* after departing and struck powerlines going 200knots.

This is clearly "Get there Itis".
 
The conditions were bad, but if you reconstruct the track, he was nose down, over 200 knots, high power, turning rapidly in the opposite direction of his clearance. He was almost certainly disoriented. THAT'S the cautionary tale. You can get disoriented in much less nasty conditions.

Taking off in conditions under minima for both the instrument approaches at the local airport is stupid, but not for the reasons relevant to that story.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Yea I also read where he turned 45* after departing and struck powerlines going 200knots.

This is clearly "Get there Itis".
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A large turn on departure is normal. That's the ODP for this airport. You take off heading 310 and have to turn right to 060 within a mile.

But this guy turned the other way. NTSB won't say he was disoriented -- they can't know -- but it sure as heck looks like a death spiral to me. Death spirals do not have to happen on takeoff.

Like a lot of weather related crashes, this one was investigated in clear weather. Marine layer clears locally by 10AM almost every day, and that particular day was no exception.
 
Definitely get your instrument ticket. I learned the limitations of just having the PPL when I had to cancel several weekend trips. I thought getting instrument rated would be my ticket to uninhibited travel, but then I learned that you still have to avoid really low ceilings, thunderstorms, icing, etc. Even so, I have been able to maintain several flights that being non-IR would have grounded. Getting instrument rated was well worth it to me.
 
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