Possible Restrictions?

[noncogito42]

Hello, It is my dream to become a pilot and was wondering about possible restrictions on obtaining my private and/or commercial pilot's license. Specifically, I did some pretty stupid stuff when i was 18 and have a felony and on probation. I was wondering if there are any restrictions or prohibitions for people in my situation or if i had to wait till i was done with probation
Thanks all
noncogito

 

[KennyFlys]

Much of it depends on what your ultimate goal is as well as what your offense was and the time that has passed. On top of that, your progress in life since that time would count for something.

Basically, to have a shot at all for most anything, you have to determine when that low in your life was then show a positive change from that point forward. I'm sure you know the offense, its duration and resulting punishment will have an effect. Then, it's how you performed in life after showing a clear acceptance of responsibility and building from that point forward. You can begin working toward a goal with both academics and some flight training. A continuing positive change is key.

I wouldn't count on airlines as an objective. Perhaps charter or other commercial pilot operations may be possible. Or, maybe even a period of time as a flight instructor while you continue to grow and more time passes. Again, it really depends on you. Set some goals at different levels and work on them a step at a time.

Being a "model citizen" and favorable review by your probation officer is a plus. You might talk with your probation officer with regard to any restrictions you may have. You don't want a worthy goal place you in violation so be sure to get that clarified. That may mean returning to court for a superseded order of the court. You're probation officer can tell you more as well as the existing order of the court.

I'm sure there are a few very experienced instructors who have dealt with young men in a similar circumstance and can give you some insight. Just listen with a humble heart and adopt a positive attitude in applying their advice.

Edit: Here's another thread where advice was sought and at first wasn't well taken. I wish that young man a positive change and a successful life. I hope for you the same. Maybe there's something in here that may help:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18908

 

[poadeleted20]

The biggest issue is that pretty much nobody with a felony conviction in the preceding ten years is allowed to fly for the airlines or any security-regulated Part 135 operator (that's a TSA rule, not FAA). The next biggest issue is that if your conviction was drug-related, it's most unlikely that you can get a pilot job of any kind in the foreseeable future, and maybe never. In addition, felony conviction histories make flight schools nervous -- they don't feel comfortable about trusting anyone with such a record with a quarter million dollar airplane.

That said, what Kenny said above is the way to go -- go forth, and sin no more. Do that, and you can probably take up flying as a hobby now, and maybe a career later.

 

[gprellwitz]

nocognito,
Note that the answers above relate to finding employment as a pilot with the conviction. I don't believe that there are restrictions to getting the certificates themselves. So if you want to be a pilot who does it for the fun of it, that may still be an achievable goal. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could comment?

 

[KennyFlys]

In addition, felony conviction histories make flight schools nervous -- they don't feel comfortable about trusting anyone with such a record with a quarter million dollar airplane.

While their knowledge of it may well hender you, you may not be required to tell them. It is accessible public record in most states while in others its available only to law enforcement or it must be released only by a law enforcement agency. However, most jobs you go for any more will include a criminal records release in the hiring package.

So, you don't have to run around saying, "Hey, I have a felony record!" but whatever you do... when asked verbally or on a form, DO NOT lie about it. That will come back to haunt you.

The best way to move around it is live your life as if it had never happen. Don't be a phony but live as an upstanding citizen within the law and value ethics as you conduct yourself in personal and business situations. Put forth a character no one would ever think to question. If you do these things, no one would ever think to ask outside of a standard question in the hiring process.

Lastly, when you are asked in any interview, have your answers clear, concise and above all, honest. Don't leave room for them to think you're misleading or otherwise. Live your life as if it is the past and such things are merely history and have no further place in your life.

 

[TMetzinger]

Getting the commercial cert is no problem... Getting the ATP cert shouldn't be a problem, I don't think the FAA does any checks to ensure the "good moral character" clause, but they might. TSA security background checks focus on felonies which make you likely to be a "threat to air commerce" or something similar. I remember when I got fingerprinted for FRZ access that they listed the sorts of crimes that mattered, and it wasn't terribly broad. So depending on your conviction, it may not matter from a government standpoint.

The most restrictive policies will likely be that of a potential employer, and most major operators will not hire felons period. Why should they? They've got lots of applicants with clean records.

The bottom line in being a pilot is that the minimum standards for skill are set by the FAA, and that's pretty much all the employers care about on the "skill" side of the equation. So it's very hard to argue that you are a "better" pilot than someone else, at least early in the hiring process. It's very much like going through a series of filters.

The first filter weeds out the folks who don't have the aviation credentials (experience and certificates). This leave a large number of qualified applicants.

The next filters will look at NON-aviation factors. Education, criminal background, work evaluations, an HR interview, etc narrows the list.

Only then may another aviation filter - a sim check or pilot interview - come into play. At this point they may once again care about who is a "better" pilot, but "better" will have more to do with personality, reaction to stress, ability to function as a team member and other "fuzzy" stuff than it will your physical flying ability. I've known some terrific pilots who I wouldn't share a cockpit with for all the money in the world.

All of these factors change as the demand for pilots waxes and wanes. The majors have a backlog, but the regionals are hungry at the moment.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I did some pretty stupid stuff when i was 18

I don't have any help to offer you and wish you the best - but how about taking a minute to help me.

I often read posts about 16-22 yr olds who confess such things and are planning a career in aviation (or others).
Each time, I wonder "what were they thinking" or what specific incidents or influences resulted in that young person misbehaving or getting an arrest/conviction?
Really I have difficulty understanding what would lead a person to such things.
Is it as simple as being 'young and foolish' or immature?
Any insight would be interesting to me. I understand pranks and such but those that result in criminal charges are a little beyond what I experienced as a kid.
Finally, I take it that you regret your actions and wish you had not risked your future by whatever it was that you did - so maybe you could help future generations by suggesting to parents/us other adults what they/we could do to help guide the youth away from such things!

Thanks for any info.

 

[poadeleted20]

While their knowledge of it may well hender you, you may not be required to tell them.

That's true, but if you refuse to answer, they don't have to let you fly their planes, and if you lie, you have committed another felony (fraud, specifically, obtaining the use of their aircraft by deceit).

 

[Dean]

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but if your conviction has cost you your drivings license, then you are SOL until you get them back.

 

[KennyFlys]

That's true, but if you refuse to answer, they don't have to let you fly their planes, and if you lie, you have committed another felony (fraud, specifically, obtaining the use of their aircraft by deceit).

Oh, I agree. That's why I made it clear to not lie either verbally or on paper. Let your behavior be a witness to your character. This isn't something you offer up any more than admitting to stealing your neighbor's wife but if asked, don't make it worse by lying.

 

[poadeleted20]

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but if your conviction has cost you your drivings license, then you are SOL until you get them back.

Since we're talking felonies, when or even whether you get your driver's license back is irrelevant if you were convicted of a felony for violating "any Federal or State statute relating to the growing, processing, manufacture, sale, disposition, possession, transportation, or importation of narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances" -- you are aviationally hosed, regardless of whether or not the conviction is a felony and whether or not there was a "motor vehicle action."

OTOH, the FAA does not have any specific regulation regarding even felony convictions outside those areas, including, say, "rape, murder, arson, and rape" or even "stampeding cattle...through the Vatican." The closest you could get is if you hold an ATP, you could lose it over the "moral character" issue.

Of course, any "motor vehicle action" (whether involving a conviction or not) "for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug" puts your FAA tickets at risk without regard for if/when you get your DL back or whether the underlying charge was a felony or misdemeanor.

 

[ScottM]

Since we're talking felonies, when or even whether you get your driver's license back is irrelevant if you were convicted of a felony for violating "any Federal or State statute relating to the growing, processing, manufacture, sale, disposition, possession, transportation, or importation of narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances" -- you are aviationally hosed, regardless of whether or not the conviction is a felony and whether or not there was a "motor vehicle action."

OTOH, the FAA does not have any specific regulation regarding even felony convictions outside those areas, including, say, "rape, murder, arson, and rape" or even "stampeding cattle...through the Vatican." The closest you could get is if you hold an ATP, you could lose it over the "moral character" issue.

Of course, any "motor vehicle action" (whether involving a conviction or not) "for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug" puts your FAA tickets at risk without regard for if/when you get your DL back or whether the underlying charge was a felony or misdemeanor.

There it the good moral character clause, that can be invoked. There is case law for the FCC that I know of where they used that clause to refuse licenses to applicants that had felony convictions.

§ 61.153 Eligibility requirements: General.

top To be eligible for an airline transport pilot certificate, a person must:
(a) Be at least 23 years of age;
(b) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet one of these requirements due to medical reasons, then the Administrator may place such operating limitations on that applicant's pilot certificate as are necessary for the safe operation of the aircraft;
(c) Be of good moral character;

Apparently you be a private, student, recreational, or sport pilot and be of bad moral character as this is the only instance I could find in part 61

 

[Everskyward]

There it the good moral character clause, that can be invoked. There is case law for the FCC that I know of where they used that clause to refuse licenses to applicants that had felony convictions.

How about FAA case law? I searched the FAA legal interpretation site and didn't come up with anything. I know the good moral character clause can be invoked, but has it ever been invoked? In this case I'm talking about in situations that are not covered by other regs, like drug offenses.

What's the definition of "good moral character" anyway?

 

[bbchien]

You can be a convicted felon and hold a certificate unless it is one the thing TSA says you can't do. The FAA says even if you are convicted you must mark the block on the application. One year from the conviction and you can apply for a certificate. The TSA 1544.229 rule states the following:

Disqualifying criminal offenses. An individual has a disqualifying criminal offense if the individual has been convicted, or found not guilty by reason of insanity, of any of the disqualifying crimes listed in this paragraph in any jurisdiction during the 10 years before the date of the individual's application for authority to perform covered functions, or while the individual has authority to perform covered functions. The disqualifying criminal offenses are as follows:

(1) Forgery of certificates, false marking of aircraft, and other aircraft registration violation; 49 U.S.C. 46306.
(2) Interference with air navigation; 49 U.S.C. 46308.
(3) Improper transportation of a hazardous material; 49 U.S.C. 46312.
(4) Aircraft piracy; 49 U.S.C. 46502.
(5) Interference with flight crew members or flight attendants; 49 U.S.C. 46504.
(6) Commission of certain crimes aboard aircraft in flight; 49 U.S.C. 46506.
(7) Carrying a weapon or explosive aboard aircraft; 49 U.S.C. 46505.
(8) Conveying false information and threats; 49 U.S.C. 46507.
(9) Aircraft piracy outside the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States; 49 U.S.C. 46502(b).
(10) Lighting violations involving transporting controlled substances; 49 U.S.C. 46315.
(11) Unlawful entry into an aircraft or airport area that serves air carriers or foreign air carriers contrary to established security requirements; 49 U.S.C. 46314.
(12) Destruction of an aircraft or aircraft facility; 18 U.S.C. 32.
(13) Murder.
(14) Assault with intent to murder.
(15) Espionage.
(16) Sedition.
(17) Kidnapping or hostage taking.
(18) Treason.
(19) Rape or aggravated sexual abuse.
(20) Unlawful possession, use, sale, distribution, or manufacture of an explosive or weapon.
(21) Extortion.
(22) Armed or felony unarmed robbery.
(23) Distribution of, or intent to distribute, a controlled substance.
(24) Felony arson.
(25) Felony involving a threat.
(26) Felony involving --
(i) Willful destruction of property;
(ii) Importation or manufacture of a controlled substance;
(iii) Burglary;
(iv) Theft;
(v) Dishonesty, fraud, or misrepresentation;
(vi) Possession or distribution of stolen property;
(vii) Aggravated assault;
(viii) Bribery; or
(ix) Illegal possession of a controlled substance punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of more than 1 year.

 

[ScottM]

How about FAA case law? I searched the FAA legal interpretation site and didn't come up with anything. I know the good moral character clause can be invoked, but has it ever been invoked? In this case I'm talking about in situations that are not covered by other regs, like drug offenses.

I realy don't know. I did not go look up anything, I was just aware of two cases that involved the FCC, convicted felons and the amateur radio service.

What's the definition of "good moral character" anyway?

What ever they and a court decide.

 

[poadeleted20]

The FAA has several times revoked ATP's for logbook falsification, which falls well below felony criminal level (can't find examples -- NTSB is "experiencing a problem with the database"). What they'd do over a real criminal felony by an ATP is anyone's guess, but my guess is prompt revocation.