Polished Frost?

Do you polish the frost on your airplane

  • Yes - I am comfortable smoothing it

    Votes: 8 19.0%

  • No - I remove it before flight

    Votes: 34 81.0%
  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .
TMetzinger

TMetzinger

Final Approach
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Tim
Do you ever "polish" the frost on your airplane wings in the winter, or do you get them clean?

I ask because the FAA issued an NPRM to remove the option of polishing frost smooth for 125, 135, and some 91 operators (Large airplanes, Turbojet multis, and Subpart K fractionals).

For us little guys, there's NO language in 91 that tells you you need to clean or polish or do anything about snow/ice/frost removal on your wings.:yikes:

I always deice the airplane, but wonder about others. Canada did a study on the effects of frost on lift and drag - it's part of my AvSafety blog post at http://www.metzair.com/avsafety/weblog.
 
The one time this was an issue for me, I had the plane de-iced. Never had frost since then, only ice.
 
If there is any, it's soon history! One early AM before departing St. Louis, I sent friends off to hunt down some alcohol.
 
KennyFlys said:
If there is any, it's soon history! One early AM before departing St. Louis, I sent friends off to hunt down some alcohol.
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yea, making a run into town for some high quality alcohol is an excellent way to deal with frost on wings.

i have polished smooth before, on 172's. i was also very cognizant on takeoff roll of any changes in anything. I made sure I had plenty long runways to abort if needed. As all progressed normally, I continued.
 
Any Frost we wait until it melts off and pull the plane into the hanger if it's not melting.
 
sba55 said:
It has to be high quality? One wonders why ;)
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that's their story and they're sticking to it

I'd want a snort too if I was thinking about taking off in that stuff.

When the G-V came off of the demo leaseback, the manager insisted on painting the top of the horizontal tail black, for two reasons:

1. Nobody ever sees it anyway

2. When it's borderline icing, the dark surface absorbs more heat, and will (at least in theory) always be in better condition than the wings. I agreed, but the problem with the theory is that the only guys who ever know for sure are the ones in the boom-bucket with the de-ice wand.
 
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sba55 said:
It has to be high quality? One wonders why ;)
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Well, I could have used some Kaluha but I'm not sure all the sugar would have been a good idea. :)

As for waiting, I departed at 0130AM from KCPS. Warmth and daylight were a good bit more wait. I didn't do too bad. I arrived back at KGVL at 0500 after a decent tail wind and a half hour of it in IMC.

It was warmer in the plane. Upon my return, I found a dead car battery. It was too dead to even power the glow plugs. The tow truck shows up with one of those stupid starter boxes and no jumper cables. So, I was stuck another hour waiting for him to show up with TWO jumper boxes to use in parallel. Ya think I might have been better off to stay in St. Louis? But, I was looking forward to a nice night flight.
 
I have indeed departed with "polished" frost on the wings when it was impossible to remove completely and I would do it again. And it's not hard to get a nice smooth surface, just use the heat of your bare skin if the temp is above about 0 F. IMO as long as the surface is as smooth as a bare wing the only potential issue is having it come off in chunks leaving rough edges. Normally frost is way too thin for that.

-lance
 
I have polished frost in the past with no discernible change in aircraft performance. However, it's now verboten for the airplanes I fly so I get them deiced.
 
tonycondon said:
yea, making a run into town for some high quality alcohol is an excellent way to deal with frost on wings.

i have polished smooth before, on 172's. i was also very cognizant on takeoff roll of any changes in anything. I made sure I had plenty long runways to abort if needed. As all progressed normally, I continued.
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I've done basically the same thing with the 182, except for the polishing part. That's a big fat high-lift wing, not a skinny little laminar-flow speed wing. No notice in performance noted.

I did, however, help Grant scrape the frost off the DA40 he was flying on one of those frosty nights. :yes:
 
This rule change is long overdue. Personally, I only tried the polishing route once. That flight cured me -- the airplane did not want to fly, and was extremely squirrely until the frost sublimated off. Never again!

And yes, I know, I should have aborted the takeoff. My only excuse for that is youth and inexperience (which oughta give you an idea of how long ago it was).
 
The bottom line with "polishing" is that although it looks smoother than before the polishing, it still ain't as smooth as the surface that's intended to be meeting the air; not by a long shot. The airfoil shape is changed slightly, too, if I'm not mistaken.

Even a dirty old wing with a bazillion bug corpses on it works better than a clean one with "polished" frost on it.

I've canceled due to frost with no regrets... if it's an important flight, stick the plane in a heated hangar or a sunny spot for a bit or get it deiced chemically somehow.
 
A DPE told me that after a day of training in a G-II on a summer day in central TX, they flew home for what would be his only landing of the day, even though it was his airplane. He said the wing quit flying even before the time that G-II wings normally quit flying (which is quite a bit before morst pilots think they should) and they banged in hard. Bug count unknown, but somewhere in the ba- or tra-jillion range was the only factor he could identify.

rottydaddy said:
The bottom line with "polishing" is that although it looks smoother than before the polishing, it still ain't as smooth as the surface that's intended to be meeting the air; not by a long shot. The airfoil shape is changed slightly, too, if I'm not mistaken.

Even a dirty old wing with a bazillion bug corpses on it works better than a clean one with "polished" frost on it.

I've canceled due to frost with no regrets... if it's an important flight, stick the plane in a heated hangar or a sunny spot for a bit or get it deiced chemically somehow.
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wabower said:
A DPE told me that after a day of training in a G-II on a summer day in central TX, they flew home for what would be his only landing of the day, even though it was his airplane. He said the wing quit flying even before the time that G-II wings normally quit flying (which is quite a bit before morst pilots think they should) and they banged in hard. Bug count unknown, but somewhere in the ba- or tra-jillion range was the only factor he could identify.
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Wow. I guess a G-II can collect a lot of bugs in a hurry... more than your typical "bug-smasher".
 
Ron Levy said:
This rule change is long overdue. Personally, I only tried the polishing route once. That flight cured me -- the airplane did not want to fly, and was extremely squirrely until the frost sublimated off. Never again!

And yes, I know, I should have aborted the takeoff. My only excuse for that is youth and inexperience (which oughta give you an idea of how long ago it was).
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They had frost back then?
 
Well, it was during the Ice Age.

And back on topic, I can't comprehend the concept of attempting to fly with a contaminated airfoil. All contaminates MUST be removed prior to departure.
 
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Have you seen how *not* clean the cherokee 140 wings are? :-)

I must confess to occasionally beginning the take-off roll with a very thin layer of
frost still on the wings. Before I reach the departure end of the (long) runway,
the frost is gone.
 
lancefisher said:
I have indeed departed with "polished" frost on the wings when it was impossible to remove completely and I would do it again. And it's not hard to get a nice smooth surface, just use the heat of your bare skin if the temp is above about 0 F. IMO as long as the surface is as smooth as a bare wing the only potential issue is having it come off in chunks leaving rough edges. Normally frost is way too thin for that.

-lance
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As have I--never an issue and no noticeable performance difference. This would have been on a DA-20 or C-172. Neither have very sensitive wings.
 
I don't live anywhere that it gets that cold, if it is that cold, I ain't going outside.
 
Henning said:
I don't live anywhere that it gets that cold, if it is that cold, I ain't going outside.
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Jeez, and all this time I thought Henning was a manly man. :rofl:

Flying is one of the best reasons to go out in the cold. Haven't *quite* pegged the VSI yet, but I think I could if we had an A&P set the mixture richer to compensate for the ultra-dense air. :D
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Jeez, and all this time I thought Henning was a manly man. :rofl:

Flying is one of the best reasons to go out in the cold. Haven't *quite* pegged the VSI yet, but I think I could if we had an A&P set the mixture richer to compensate for the ultra-dense air. :D
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Nothing feels much better than waking up in a state with no state income tax.
 
I'm not likely to experience that as long as I stay here in Taxachusetts :-(
 
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