This is a group--we all put towards it. I don't see anything wrong with asking people what they are willing to pay. I doubt they do either. I never said I was going to sell to anyone unless I established an agreement with the management council.
No, but you made a public issue of it before discussing it with the MC. I consider that inappropriate.
It is for some of us. SOME of us actually fly and plan events. Some of us go to events. We do all of this in the name of Pilots of America. This group that we think so highly of. But yet if we make a shirt we get threatended.
How have you been threatened?
I think that is very uncalled for. This is not a business and this never will be a business. This community was built with the idea being this will be a community. If you don't care about the shirts I think you need to either find somone that does care and let us do it. It has been two years. The fact that you say that you don't care but yet say we can't do it is nothing but offensive.
I have already told you, Adam is researching it *NOW*. He has, recently, in response in fact to the last string of threads, picked up the ball because I do not have the time or motivation to follow through on this, as I have already said.
It has been handeled the wrong way. It has been a big headache. It's been one for those of us that care. For those that don't care--I guess it doesn't matter. We don't want you to worry about it which is why we want to do it.
Yes, I already said I dropped the ball. I also said that the last vendor with whom we were discussing the idea did not answer all of our questions to my satisfaction. Do not make the mistake of assuming that because we do not tell you everything we are discussing, that we are not discussing it.
It's not even that. This site is a community that we all built. This is a community we will all leave just as fast. You are asking for an established vendor with a proven track record to just give you money. That isn't going to happen.
The existance of Cafepress reveals your error in that regard.
I would think I am respected enough in the POA community to make a few shirts. I've had at least 18 people now tell me they would buy it from me. This was with significant money going into your pocket. The members of this forum are big boys. They do not need you to protect them from a simple purchase of a polo shirt from a friend.
Jesse, this isn't just about protecting the buyers. If we agree to let you sell a product through our site and you fall through, for whatever reason, we have to protect ourselves as well. You are not seeing the whole issue, and yet you continue to speak as if it is only your perspective that is real. Every member of the MC has something to lose in the operation of this site, me most of all. YOU DON'T. Its easy to talk in your situation. I prefer to err on the side of caution.
Chuck, we are talking polo shirts. If some day I crash into the side of mountain no one is going to cry that they can't buy the same shirt anymore. These are shirts. These are not million dollar computer systems that must have a 24x7 support contract for the next 37 years. These are shirts, sold to friends, Are you being serious with that statement?
And if you take their money and vanish? Or if your shirts arrive damaged or are of crappy quality? Don't mistake me - I think your intent is sincere, and I don't question your integrity, but it would also be the height of foolishness to enter into a long term business relationship on faith in someone with whom we have never even had a face to face discussion.
We all know each other. We are talking the sale of a few polo shirts. You are really over reacting.
No, I do not know you, and you are talking about taking something that is directly tied to my name, my assets, and my estate, and engaging in business transactions, and you started doing so WITHOUT discussing it with me or the MC before hand. I say again, YOU HAVE NO CARDS ON THE TABLE HERE. You talk about the community, but your net investment in the community, where the rubber meets the road is what, $12.00 according to my paypal records. When you've put as much time, money, blood, sweat and tears into this site as I have, THEN you can deign to lecture me about overreacting.
You think I'm going to sell a few shirts and not pay you the comission for them? Seriously--I offered you guys quite a deal. You were going to get $10 per shirt in profit TOWARDS PILOTS OF AMERICA.
Frankly beside the point.
I've posted here for years. I've met almost everyone here that matters. I've helped people with numerous problems. I came up with a plan to get people polo shirts right now (not two years from now) and give POA some money. You need a member willing to put some time towards it, you do not need a damn vendor. We are talking a few polo shirts for a small community.
You know what, Jesse, you may be right that a member is the way to go with it, but that isn't your decision. That's the decision of the Management Council, and you have gone about presenting this idea in completely the wrong way.
I did not make this a public issue, I made this something that the members of this community could look at. Do not make more of this then it is.
The POA management council wasted two years on this. I come up with a pretty sweet deal for everyone. I checked to see if people were willing to buy them and I wrote you saying I'd give POA $10 per polo shirt.
How dare I try to expand the community by getting some friends a few polo shirts. How dare I try to give money to POA. How dare I put my time into this place.
Once again, I appreciate the enthusiasm and respect your desire, but if you can not understand that there are bigger issues that need to be addressed on this end before agreeing to enter into business transactions, then you aren't the right person for us to work with, in my opinion.
FWIW, I am confident (and this belief is backed-up by actual, face-to-face contact and legitimate business dealings) that if Jesse makes a commitment, Jesse honors the commitment, period, full-stop.
What that means is, if Jesse told me he would sell me a shirt for $45.00, and that the profit from the shirt would be donated to POA to help defray expenses, I would consider that as sure as FedEx, done deal.
In fact, I don't even think the Big J is looking to have a link or a "storefront," per se.
It can be complicated, or it can be simple- you can't get more "0 Footprint" than "I'll handle it all for you."
Spike you are correct, that would be an ideal arrangement. As I said before, Adam is now taking over this item and looking into our options.
Well, all this seems much ado about nothing. Including Jesse's post immediately above mine.
You already sell large avatars and email addresses on the domain name. You solicit donations for operating expenses. You have a Paypal account that you are using. Go to the mall and get some t-shirts printed. Get some golf shirts embroidered. Mail them out as you are able. Tell folks to be patient. In my experience a few folks will be busy for a week then the demand will fall to next to nil. If you think it will be any more than that then we are all kidding ourselves about the popularity of this site. Sounds like Jesse is volunteering to handle it. Case solved.
Alaska it may very well be, but again, this isn't the issue. My first reply gave Jesse the name he needs to make his presentation to. My second one never said it couldn't be done, it expressed serious concerns that I have about engaging in business transactions involving material goods .
Where have we heard this before. All talk and NO action is not what the people of this board want. If PoA is not interested in being a store front then so be it. But your refusing to let anyone else make the shirts shows that you actually do want to be some sort of store front.
Well, Scott, I understand your frustration. I've already said it and I'll say it again. *I* *DROPPED* *THE* *BALL*. I don't deny it, and I never have. Sadly, I have a real world career to deal with. In that job, I've gone through not one but two corporate mergers that have consumed the last 7 months of my life because I've been the sole IT developer for this client for a section of the business who's volume has quadrupled as a result of those buyouts. My life has been a little busy, really since Jan of 06, and I know that I've let things go here that I shouldn't have.
But don't mistake my personal disinterest in merchandising with total disintrest. Once again, Adam has decided to take on the reigns of this idea, because I can't. This is a recent undertaking of his, and I'm not sure where he is with it right now. The MC *IS* interested in finally getting this done. My sole interest is that *IF* we do it, that we do it in such a way that doesn't put my personal interests in jeapordy. I would be a damn fool to blow it off and say, "Its a few shirts" when its my name on every dotted line associated with this place, now, wouldn't I?
Save your breath guys, they don't care. They didn't care care 2 years ago, they don't care now.
Its a control issue now.
I'm sorry you feel that way, Nick. I'd try to convince you otherwise, but you've clearly made up your mind.
