Please tell me I'm not the only one...

U

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who's run a tank dry on a super nervous passenger? Here's the setup:

Mom gets super nervous in airliners. She's kind enough to let me take her flying, and she is sure to point out every bird, plane and telephone pole. Sunday morning I am taking her on a 2.5 hr trip to see my sister for Mother's Day (yes, of all days to scare her silly, it was Mother's Day). Mid-flight, a passenger wants me to descend from 9500 to 2500 so he can get cell reception and make a call. After some back and forth about what a waste, I relent. We descend, climb back up, and go on our merry way. I neglect to adjust my timer to account for the additional gas burned. 3 minutes prior to my timer going off, approaching a rocky ridge line that is 2000 feet below, as mom naps, the beast up front starts buckin' 'n snortin'. The switch-tanks-boost-pump-on reflex is immediate, and after one long scream/squeal from the back seat, all is calm. Tears well up in Mom's eyes as I explain that it was Dad's fault because he had to make that call ;) and I will never allow it to happen again. I thought for sure she was taking Southwest home.

Let's hear your version...
 
I can't say I've ever unintentionally run a tank dry. Many avionics such as a garmin 430/530 have timer features that will remind you to switch tanks. That's always kept me on the straight and narrow.
 
Unregistered said:
Tears well up in Mom's eyes as I explain that it was Dad's fault because he had to make that call ;) and I will never allow it to happen again.
Click to expand...

BTW, nobody's perfect. But part of being PIC is not blaming your passengers for your own mistakes.... I suspect you already knew that though....

Good luck...
 
I got one better, or I should say worse. Flying from NC to CT we were descending VFR in to Groton CT. I typically crossed JFK airspace at 7500 and was descending down as I crossed the sound into GON. For planning purposes, I'm never to far from land, just incase of an emergency. Anyways, on this day clouds were forming over Long Island *on the Atlantic Side* but the conditions over CT were great. As I crossed through 4500, a plane came at me from Long Island out of the clouds (so from the right), non IFR and not talking to control. As he cleared the clouds he must have turned on his transponder, as my TCAS system picks him up, it yells traffic. At the same time center got excited and basically yelled traffic. The only thing that came to mind, was to do a HARD dive to the left, over the sound where it is clear. As I'm diving, my wife sleeping in back, wakes up to see the clouds in front, as my plan was to make a 360 turn and lost 2000 feet. Mid 45 degree turn *facing the clouds, the engine quits.... I forgot to do my last fuel change over... Anyways, my wife FREAKS OUT.... I'm now panicking, I still had plenty of gas, *about 18 gallons* but it was all in one tank. Her panicking set me off, heart was pounding.. etc... I tell tower what just happened, that I lost my engine because of a missed fuel change. I believe he can hear the stress in my voice, so he immediately switches me over to GON Tower, and basically talks me into declaring an emergency. Needless to say, GON Tower and I talk things through, I land the plane.. non-event... Except my wife wants me dead.... That was my 2nd declared emergency.
 
About three years ago I glassed my previous plane and installed a JPI EDM 930 engine monitor. After a number of test flights we thought we had the fuel totalizer dialed in pretty well, so I took it on a long cross-country from Denver to Orange County. About 10 miles out from KSNA the left tank ran dry. Totalizer said I had 16 gallons onboard. I knew the right tank wouldn't be far behind because I was keeping them even, so I requested direct numbers but was declined because I was in sequence for the visual approach 19R under an IFR flight plan. So I canceled IFR and got direct numbers to 19L VFR. At this point my wife was having a fit and I was sweating for a few minutes until I knew we were in glide distance to the runway. Landed and taxied to the FBO without incident. Found out the next day I landed with 3 gallons usable remaining in the right tank. Haunts me to this day. Lesson is obvious: Don't trust totalizers. Oh, and I also bought a plane that holds far more gas than I'll ever need for the places I go!
 
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I intentionally run my aux tanks dry on about half my flights. It's silly to leave fuel stranded in small amounts on various tanks. But it's only when my wife is with us that I hit the lottery and both engines run out at exactly the same time. She doesn't like that.
 
Three minutes? Are you kidding?

Unregistered said:
who's run a tank dry on a super nervous passenger? Here's the setup:

Mom gets super nervous in airliners. She's kind enough to let me take her flying, and she is sure to point out every bird, plane and telephone pole. Sunday morning I am taking her on a 2.5 hr trip to see my sister for Mother's Day (yes, of all days to scare her silly, it was Mother's Day). Mid-flight, a passenger wants me to descend from 9500 to 2500 so he can get cell reception and make a call. After some back and forth about what a waste, I relent. We descend, climb back up, and go on our merry way. I neglect to adjust my timer to account for the additional gas burned. 3 minutes prior to my timer going off, approaching a rocky ridge line that is 2000 feet below, as mom naps, the beast up front starts buckin' 'n snortin'. The switch-tanks-boost-pump-on reflex is immediate, and after one long scream/squeal from the back seat, all is calm. Tears well up in Mom's eyes as I explain that it was Dad's fault because he had to make that call ;) and I will never allow it to happen again. I thought for sure she was taking Southwest home.

Let's hear your version...
Click to expand...
 
Brad Z said:
BTW, nobody's perfect. But part of being PIC is not blaming your passengers for your own mistakes.... I suspect you already knew that though....

Good luck...
Click to expand...

Obviously, it was just a good excuse to blame something on Dad. It's a little back and forth we do. Probably not too uncommon between fathers and sons...
 
MY wife has fixed problems like that! She won't fly with me!

in order to be my wife she had to go flying with me but after some years of marriage, no more flying!

I appreciate your sharing your story. I started out flying in Cessnas with the "both" tank option. Now I have a Piper where I have to remember to change tanks.
 
No passengers, but I hit a headwind out around Guthrie, and I needed to land on the 6666 private ranch strip and get the Sheriff to bring me some car gas. No 100LL for 100 miles around...

The four sixes ranch employs it's own Sheriff besides there being a town of Guthrie Sheriff. The ranch Sheriff was ****ed, but the town Sheriff blew him off... I told ranch Sheriff it was either land on your pretty 4000' paved strip, or out there.... and I pointed to a bunch of scrub brush...
 
Well, I've only been flying 14 years, but, no, I have never run a tank dry, intentionally or unintentionally. I have a 496 on the yoke that tells me to switch tanks every 30 minutes--I obey it the first time (after take off and climb ROP) and then ignore it every every other time (to switch tanks every hour when cruising LOP). On truly long flights, I will write down the tank switches, the fuel used, and the fuel remaining on my flight plan. And I always land with at least an hour of fuel remaining.

The 210 flown LOP will go 5.5 hours, further than my bladder will.

Wells
 
Yeah, my own mistake once. And I was in uncontrolled airspace in Canada in January. I knew what it was as soon as it happened, assured the passengers everything was fine, switched tanks and explained what happened. In this case I was still in the habit of checking the fuel gauges on the 310. The gauges are quite accurate, but we were all in a good conversation and I forgot.

Added to the 530's scheduler function after that: timer for when to switch tanks off the auxes.

Take your lesson learned and move on.
 
Wabower, three minutes before my timer went off. My timer is set for a couple gallons before it goes dry.

Colojo, That would keep you up at night. Scary!
 
After burning all but 1500 lbs on a looonnnnggg flight....(4 T54 turbines)....I saw the light.
 
If you guys tell all these great stories on here, we'll never have anything to talk about in the hangar! :)
 
In which case you obviously slice it thinner that I do. Did the trip requirement or allowable fuel load require such practice, or is it something you were taught to do?

Unregistered said:
Wabower, three minutes before my timer went off. My timer is set for a couple gallons before it goes dry.

Colojo, That would keep you up at night. Scary!
Click to expand...
 
Unregistered said:
Wabower, three minutes before my timer went off. My timer is set for a couple gallons before it goes dry.
Click to expand...

I don't understand this sort of fuel management. Why cut it so close?

Mary and I have four tanks to manage in the Pathfinder -- two 25 gallon, and two 17 gallon. We run tanks in 20 or 30 minute intervals (depending on length of flight) in order to maintain balance.

Running a tank dry will result in a significant imbalance -- unless the other tank(s) are uncomfortably near empty.

The times we've forgotten to switch tanks have been very apparent, especially if it was a tip tank. When your arm gets tired from holding left aileron, it's a sign. :D
 
Required fuel tank changes ALWAYS occur:

1. When ATC calls traffic
2. When ATC calls with a request or freq change
3. When something in the cockpit distracts you
4. When a passenger distracts you
5. [when MIL] the RWAR goes off

It is without fail. One of those moments that murphy throws into the life of pilot -

I have watched the timer count down to a tank switch and see it hit zero and ATC comes up = and its more often than not. Try it sometime.
 
A gross weight takeoff allowed 40 minutes of cruise fuel in reserve at the end of the trip. I was unfamiliar with the destination area and there was a marine layer just off the destination field when I departed. There were a ton of alternates that were severe clear, but knowing I may be diverting, maneuvering, etc. I prefer to have that last 40 minutes in one tank, not 2 or 3 to switch between while coordinating a diversion with approach and all that jazz.

I wasn't taught it, and it's only standard practice in the above situation. It's been a reliable strategy for a while now.
 
IMO you just learned (or should have) that a different strategy might be worthy of consideration. Such a benign maneuver shouldn't result in a dry tank.

Unregistered said:
A gross weight takeoff allowed 40 minutes of cruise fuel in reserve at the end of the trip. I was unfamiliar with the destination area and there was a marine layer just off the destination field when I departed. There were a ton of alternates that were severe clear, but knowing I may be diverting, maneuvering, etc. I prefer to have that last 40 minutes in one tank, not 2 or 3 to switch between while coordinating a diversion with approach and all that jazz.

I wasn't taught it, and it's only standard practice in the above situation. It's been a reliable strategy for a while now.
Click to expand...
 
comanchepilot said:
Required fuel tank changes ALWAYS occur:

1. When ATC calls traffic
2. When ATC calls with a request or freq change
3. When something in the cockpit distracts you
4. When a passenger distracts you
5. [when MIL] the RWAR goes off

It is without fail. One of those moments that murphy throws into the life of pilot -

I have watched the timer count down to a tank switch and see it hit zero and ATC comes up = and its more often than not. Try it sometime.
Click to expand...

6. When you're just about to cross a ridge with less than 1000 foot clearance.
 
colojo said:
About three years ago I glassed my previous plane and installed a JPI EDM 930 engine monitor. After a number of test flights we thought we had the fuel totalizer dialed in pretty well, so I took it on a long cross-country from Denver to Orange County. About 10 miles out from KSNA the left tank ran dry. Totalizer said I had 16 gallons onboard. I knew the right tank wouldn't be far behind because I was keeping them even, so I requested direct numbers but was declined because I was in sequence for the visual approach 19R under an IFR flight plan. So I canceled IFR and got direct numbers to 19L VFR. At this point my wife was having a fit and I was sweating for a few minutes until I knew we were in glide distance to the runway. Landed and taxied to the FBO without incident. Found out the next day I landed with 3 gallons usable remaining in the right tank. Haunts me to this day. Lesson is obvious: Don't trust totalizers. Oh, and I also bought a plane that holds far more gas than I'll ever need for the places I go!
Click to expand...

Another lesson that should have been learned here: You should have declared a fuel emergency!
 
Ok, after reading this thread now I'm worried. I've trained in C172, and the vast majority of the flying afterward was done in high wing aircrafts. I've just transitioned to Diamond DA40 and put about 10 hours on it. It's a beautiful, safe, and easy to fly aircraft, but this switching fuel tanks every 30 minutes bothered me a little. Yes there is a timer in G1000, and I've heard of the trick to switch the fuel tank to where the minute hand on my wrist watch is pointing. But I need to try really hard not to forget to switch tank, because it's one thing I *never* had to worry about throughout my flying. Reading the responses to this thread tells me fuel starvation due to forgotten fuel tank switch is not uncommon. And it's surprising that fuel tank switch is not automated in this day and age when everything else is electronically controlled. I mean the DA40 has autopilot that can level the wings and trim to assign altitude. Is automatic feeder or tank switcher really hard to design?
 
Once. Scariest moment of my life as I realized I didn't know what was left in the other tank. My calculations shouldn't have been wrong...

Landed at KRDU and bought the most expensive tank of fuel of my life. I call it the stupid penalty.
 
MoltenLava said:
Ok, after reading this thread now I'm worried. I've trained in C172, and the vast majority of the flying afterward was done in high wing aircrafts. I've just transitioned to Diamond DA40 and put about 10 hours on it. It's a beautiful, safe, and easy to fly aircraft, but this switching fuel tanks every 30 minutes bothered me a little. Yes there is a timer in G1000, and I've heard of the trick to switch the fuel tank to where the minute hand on my wrist watch is pointing. But I need to try really hard not to forget to switch tank, because it's one thing I *never* had to worry about throughout my flying. Reading the responses to this thread tells me fuel starvation due to forgotten fuel tank switch is not uncommon. And it's surprising that fuel tank switch is not automated in this day and age when everything else is electronically controlled. I mean the DA40 has autopilot that can level the wings and trim to assign altitude. Is automatic feeder or tank switcher really hard to design?
Click to expand...
I don't have tons of experience, but I (like most others) trained in a highwing and then ended up in a low wing. I have a clock that I reset in my plane when I startup, and checking the time just becomes part of the normal scan. You do get used to it after a while. Jay joked about it but when you find yourself holding lots of aileron, your brain should say "something is wrong here." :lol:
 
One way to pass the time on long XCs is to keep a fuel log. Note the time you switched tanks, power settings, fuel totalizer values (if equipped), and you should have a very accurate estimate of how much fuel is in each tank.
 
Unregistered said:
Mid-flight, a passenger wants me to descend from 9500 to 2500 so he can get cell reception and make a call. After some back and forth about what a waste, I relent. We descend, climb back up, and go on our merry way.
Click to expand...

I fly more solo than with passengers, but I don't think I'd ever descend so that one could get cell reception(especially that much!).......unless the call was THAT critical it just couldn't wait! As in, someone's life depended on it!!!

They couldn't pull that off on a commercial flight, so why should I "relent":rolleyes2:

Dad would just have to wait!
 
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Unregistered said:
who's run a tank dry on a super nervous passenger? Here's the setup:

Mom gets super nervous in airliners. She's kind enough to let me take her flying, and she is sure to point out every bird, plane and telephone pole. Sunday morning I am taking her on a 2.5 hr trip to see my sister for Mother's Day (yes, of all days to scare her silly, it was Mother's Day). Mid-flight, a passenger wants me to descend from 9500 to 2500 so he can get cell reception and make a call. After some back and forth about what a waste, I relent. We descend, climb back up, and go on our merry way. I neglect to adjust my timer to account for the additional gas burned. 3 minutes prior to my timer going off, approaching a rocky ridge line that is 2000 feet below, as mom naps, the beast up front starts buckin' 'n snortin'. The switch-tanks-boost-pump-on reflex is immediate, and after one long scream/squeal from the back seat, all is calm. Tears well up in Mom's eyes as I explain that it was Dad's fault because he had to make that call ;) and I will never allow it to happen again. I thought for sure she was taking Southwest home.

Let's hear your version...
Click to expand...

Running the second one dry is even more exciting.
 
That phonecall would have waited

SkyHog said:
Once. Scariest moment of my life as I realized I didn't know what was left in the other tank. My calculations shouldn't have been wrong...

Landed at KRDU and bought the most expensive tank of fuel of my life. I call it the stupid penalty.
Click to expand...

I was wrong during my trip to KRDU...had more fuel than I thought and landed at Henderson and filled up. Flew to RDU then back home on that gas.

bbchien said:
After burning all but 1500 lbs on a looonnnnggg flight....(4 T54 turbines)....I saw the light.
Click to expand...

How much is that in cruise time?
 
SkyHog said:
Once. Scariest moment of my life as I realized I didn't know what was left in the other tank. My calculations shouldn't have been wrong...

Landed at KRDU and bought the most expensive tank of fuel of my life. I call it the stupid penalty.
Click to expand...
The most expensive tank is the last one to go empty because one was trying to save a few bucks on a fill-up.
 
What effects will this have on a non-STC'd engine?

txflyer said:
No passengers, but I hit a headwind out around Guthrie, and I needed to land on the 6666 private ranch strip and get the Sheriff to bring me some car gas. No 100LL for 100 miles around...
Click to expand...
 
GeorgeC said:
What effects will this have on a non-STC'd engine?
Click to expand...

The engine can't read, anyway. Odds are, the only effect was to allow the engine to make power and fly away home.
 
MoltenLava said:
Ok, after reading this thread now I'm worried. I've trained in C172, and the vast majority of the flying afterward was done in high wing aircrafts. I've just transitioned to Diamond DA40 and put about 10 hours on it. It's a beautiful, safe, and easy to fly aircraft, but this switching fuel tanks every 30 minutes bothered me a little. Yes there is a timer in G1000, and I've heard of the trick to switch the fuel tank to where the minute hand on my wrist watch is pointing. But I need to try really hard not to forget to switch tank, because it's one thing I *never* had to worry about throughout my flying. Reading the responses to this thread tells me fuel starvation due to forgotten fuel tank switch is not uncommon. And it's surprising that fuel tank switch is not automated in this day and age when everything else is electronically controlled. I mean the DA40 has autopilot that can level the wings and trim to assign altitude. Is automatic feeder or tank switcher really hard to design?
Click to expand...
I think some EAB folks use a sump tank in the fuselage that all of the wing tanks feed to via gravity and then hook the fuel pump to that.
 
SCCutler said:
The engine can't read, anyway. Odds are, the only effect was to allow the engine to make power and fly away home.
Click to expand...

If the engine wasn't designed for 87 octane, it's either going to detonate at full throttle, or your A&P is a complete idiot and has retarded your timing well beyond what is needed for its rated octane. This substantially reduces available power.

Lean modestly, and avoid full power. Mild detonation is not serious, despite the name. Severe detonation may be quite a lot more expensive than trucking in a tank of 100LL from 100 miles away. But, it doesn't usually cause an engine to quit. Just use a lot of oil and leak compression.
 
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