Please report your position accurately! I want to live!

Get over it. Most of us strive for perfection on every flight. **** happens, they guy screwed up a call. If you think you've never done that, you either haven't been flying very long, or you didn't realize it at the time to correct yourself.
 
rwellner98 said:
Landmarks don't tend to be very useful for transient pilots.
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One of my minor irritants is that airports around here are usually "___ County". I usually use the name of the town and then county because more people are likely to know the town than the county. But some people gripe about that. :dunno:
 
N5922S said:
One of my minor irritants is that airports around here are usually "___ County". I usually use the name of the town and then county because more people are likely to know the town than the county. But some people gripe about that. :dunno:
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That one gets me all the time.

Like instead of LaGrange, it's Fayette Regional.

Nobody in Texas knows Fayette Regional, but we all sure as heck know LaGrange. ;)
 
My instructor told me it's always the name of the town, everyone knows where that is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
47PILOT said:
I can't tell you how many times "DAILY" i hear: " Tower, cessna XYZ 10 to the west with tango, full stop"

tower replies: "cessna XYZ report 4mi straight in at or above 1500 RNY 26, and you said your 10 west west of the airport? say ALT.

Pilot replies: "Descending out of 3500"

Tower replies: "Ah sir I'm showing a target 10 to the east of the field"
At this point the pilot tries to make up some stupid excuse, or simply admits his or her mistake.
This kind of thing is usually picked up pretty quickly by the tower when its slow, but when things get busy, it can get interesting in a hurry.
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I'm definitely guilty of that one. Live and learn.

And, what's wrong with straight in approaches? I prefer that over erratic flying to enter the downwind on the 45. The less time spent in the pattern, the better. With straight ins, I can see the entire airport environment the entire time.
 
MAKG1 said:
They are if you think about it a bit.

They may not know names, but if they can't spot the only green thing of any size for 25 miles, maybe flying isn't such a good idea.
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Where I live, there's lots of green (in the summer) besides golf courses and there are about 5 golf courses within 15 miles of my home base. I wouldn't expect a transient pilot to be able to identify any golf course unless it was flagged as a VFR reporting point on a chart. Now if you want to double up with "7 miles west, and over the golf course" it might work well.
 
txflyer said:
That one gets me all the time.

Like instead of LaGrange, it's Fayette Regional.

Nobody in Texas knows Fayette Regional, but we all sure as heck know LaGrange. ;)
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How does the ASOS/AWOS announce the airport name? That's what I go by at an unfamiliar airport unless I hear others using a different name on the radio.
 
acrophile said:
When I'm approaching an airport for landing, I execute periodic S-turns so I can check above and below me for traffic that I might otherwise be synchronized with, and also become more visible to them. That tactic may be the most reliable way (without radar) to notice if someone on the same track is descending into you, or you into them. Radios are a helpful supplement, but seeing and avoiding is primary.
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Pretty much what I do. when I know there is another plane somewhere in my proximity. I try to make myself as visible as possible. some S Turns, Some small pitch up pitch downs. straight and level sometimes blends into the background.
 
Heard one of my favorites today ;

"Cessna 12345 flying a VOR-A approach to a low approach, I'm just south of the VOR"

And don't be so hard on CTLSi. He's been a private pilot for over a month now and is probably very current on all the regs and quite adept at pattern work and maybe has a lot of recent experience dealing with pilots who are not doing pattern work.
 
jnmeade said:
Heard one of my favorites today ;

"Cessna 12345 flying a VOR-A approach to a low approach, I'm just south of the VOR"

And don't be so hard on CTLSi. He's been a private pilot for over a month now and is probably very current on all the regs and quite adept at pattern work and maybe has a lot of recent experience dealing with pilots who are not doing pattern work.
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Pet peeve of mine is guys doing practice approaches announcing the current fix they just flew over.

I was out doing some approaches myself one day and there was someone else doing a practice approach to the same airport. He announced what approach he was doing and what fix he was over while I was announcing what approach I was flying and where I was in distance and direction.

I keyed up and asked him he wouldn't mind telling me where he was since I didn't have his plate in front of me. He started using distance and direction and we worked together very well. ;)
 
Swampfox201 said:
And when it rains and everything is green then what?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Doesn't happen on the shoreline. 10 miles uphill might be a problem. Then you find something else obvious, say the ridgetop highway or the town of Pescadero.
 
Lord Muck said:
There may be planes in the pattern who are not talking. Just because you don't hear them doesn't mean they're not in the pattern. For this reason if it's VFR it is more polite and probably safer to set up for a normal pattern entry.
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It's difficult at that airport due to rising terrain on the right 45 for 30. Not impossible, but it freaks out a lot of people. And today there was a NOTAM for aerobatics just offshore, which really constrains the airspace. Taken with the straight-in prohibition there, the only options appear to be the upwind entry or an approach from the north inside Class B.
 
gismo said:
Where I live, there's lots of green (in the summer) besides golf courses and there are about 5 golf courses within 15 miles of my home base. I wouldn't expect a transient pilot to be able to identify any golf course unless it was flagged as a VFR reporting point on a chart. Now if you want to double up with "7 miles west, and over the golf course" it might work well.
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In fact, that's how I do it at nontowered airports, whenever possible. And it almost always is.
 
I just want to reiterate something that maybe some guys never learned, or they forgot, or worse, they purposely don't give a damn.

The air and the fields are PUBLIC property. There is no pecking order to pilots or piloting. A student has the same right to the air and the field as a guy with 8,000 hours.

We all know that an aircraft in emergency has right of way. We also know that med flights should be given special treatment too, but usually they ask for it.

Waiting your turn to land is not just safer, it also shows respect for others. Whether you are flying a Lear, or an experimental, whether you are in a million buck Cirrus, or a $30k used Cessna. Whether you are in an LSA or a weight shift kite. Get in the pattern, and wait your turn.
 
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CTLSi said:
I just want to reiterate something that maybe some guys never learned, or they forgot, or worse, they purposely don't give a damn.

The air and the fields are PUBLIC property. There is no pecking order to pilots or piloting. A student has the same right to the air and the field as a guy with 8,000 hours.

We all know that an aircraft in emergency has right of way. We also know that med flights should be given special treatment too, but usually they ask for it.

Waiting your turn to land is not just safer, it also shows respect for others. Whether you are flying a Lear, or an experimental, whether you are in a million buck Cirrus, or a $30k used Cessna. Whether you are in an LSA or a weight shift kite. Get in the pattern, and wait your turn.
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There are also FARs which guide you, no, actually they are regulatory, that tell you what to do in the pattern.

It would be worthwhile to get with your CFI and review them.
 
CTLSi said:
I just want to reiterate something that maybe some guys never learned, or they forgot, or worse, they purposely don't give a damn.

The air and the fields are PUBLIC property. There is no pecking order to pilots or piloting. A student has the same right to the air and the field as a guy with 8,000 hours.

We all know that an aircraft in emergency has right of way. We also know that med flights should be given special treatment too, but usually they ask for it.

Waiting your turn to land is not just safer, it also shows respect for others. Whether you are flying a Lear, or an experimental, whether you are in a million buck Cirrus, or a $30k used Cessna. Whether you are in an LSA or a weight shift kite. Get in the pattern, and wait your turn.
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Anybody here got a blank butthurt report to spare?
 
CTLSi said:
I just want to reiterate something that maybe some guys never learned, or they forgot, or worse, they purposely don't give a damn.

The air and the fields are PUBLIC property. There is no pecking order to pilots or piloting. A student has the same right to the air and the field as a guy with 8,000 hours.

We all know that an aircraft in emergency has right of way. We also know that med flights should be given special treatment too, but usually they ask for it.

Waiting your turn to land is not just safer, it also shows respect for others. Whether you are flying a Lear, or an experimental, whether you are in a million buck Cirrus, or a $30k used Cessna. Whether you are in an LSA or a weight shift kite. Get in the pattern, and wait your turn.
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If, I hear a jet inbound to the airport I'll ask him his location and preferred runway. If he is close to lining up on final and I'm in the pattern, even about to turn base, I'll give him the airport. It's FAR easier for me to circle for 2 mins then it is for him to change his approach. I do 60 kts GS on final on a good day, more often it's around 40.

If I meet the American Eagle ERJ coming into Texarkana after hours, then he automatically has the right of way in my book. I'll hold short or circle on the downwind until he is on the ground. No way am I going to cut off a passenger airliner even if I technically had the right of way.

It's not always about who's first to the pattern.
 
EppyGA said:
Pet peeve of mine is guys doing practice approaches announcing the current fix they just flew over.

I was out doing some approaches myself one day and there was someone else doing a practice approach to the same airport. He announced what approach he was doing and what fix he was over while I was announcing what approach I was flying and where I was in distance and direction.

I keyed up and asked him he wouldn't mind telling me where he was since I didn't have his plate in front of me. He started using distance and direction and we worked together very well. ;)
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I have my IR students add their direction and distance when shooting practice approaches. I started doing that after we almost got hit by a water bomber. :hairraise:

The only time I'll forgo the VFR details is if I'm on our field's GPS approach and I'm talking to another instructor/student. It's just easier because we all know where that fix is in relation to the ground.
 
ARFlyer said:
If, I hear a jet inbound to the airport I'll ask him his location and preferred runway. If he is close to lining up on final and I'm in the pattern, even about to turn base, I'll give him the airport. It's FAR easier for me to circle for 2 mins then it is for him to change his approach. I do 60 kts GS on final on a good day, more often it's around 40.

If I meet the American Eagle ERJ coming into Texarkana after hours, then he automatically has the right of way in my book. I'll hold short or circle on the downwind until he is on the ground. No way am I going to cut off a passenger airliner even if I technically had the right of way.

It's not always about who's first to the pattern.
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Letting the fast guy go in first makes it a lot easier to maintain separation and makes it less likely that I am going to get run down from behind.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Letting the fast guy go in first makes it a lot easier to maintain separation and makes it less likely that I am going to get run down from behind.
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:yeahthat:

If there are several of us in the pattern and the Arrow decides to come up and play; we will work it around until the Arrow is leading the pack. I've been in their shoes and it sure is annoying to extend out two miles because of a Maule doing a short field.
 
Sac Arrow said:
There are also FARs which guide you, no, actually they are regulatory, that tell you what to do in the pattern.
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Well, the regulations say that since I was at a lower altitude, and technically ahead of him on a final, I had the right of way.

Was I going to assume that right of way of which I was entitled to according to said regulations, hell no. I dove and did a 360 to give separation and protected my arse.

Doesn't matter if we were straight in final or both going for the same pattern entry, many miles out bad calls were being made which caused a loss of adequate separation in my book.

Have I made mistakes, yup...and will again. But I hope to learn from those and share what I have learned so it gets repeated less often.
 
I have never seen a jet fly a pattern at an uncontrolled field and it has never bothered me doing a downwind 360 to give him the space he needs.

I also don't cut in front of Semi trucks on the freeway They have more energy to deal with and I'm okay giving them the room they need.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I have never seen a jet fly a pattern at an uncontrolled field and it has never bothered me doing a downwind 360 to give him the space he needs.

I also don't cut in front of Semi trucks on the freeway They have more energy to deal with and I'm okay giving them the room they need.
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I've only seen it once at our small airport and that was only because he got a caution light on rotation.
 
I've seen a jet do a pattern over at KSGT... I get a real kick when I hear a polished pro calling for traffic miles out when I know there is a student in the pattern. Sometimes that polished voice gets a little nervous after a few calls without a reply...
 
Jets can fly patterns as well as you can. The patterns are just somewhat larger and higher.
 
B-52's have specified patterns as well, I see planes at my home field practicing those all the time! :yes:

I know...I know..."Get over it!" :sad:
 
It's pretty common at our field for me to see a plane (especially jets) take off or land and I don't hear a thing ever said on my handheld.

It makes me feel kind of stupid after a CitationX takes off and didn't say anything to key up and say "Podunk, skywagon rolling on 16 for take off, Podunk"

Everybody get out of my way! :D:lol:
 
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I fly out of an uncontrolled field and find that pilots in this area do a pretty good job of identifying their relative position to the field. Where they fall short IMHO is in reporting their altitude and climb/descent profile. It may not be required, but it sure would go a long way to completing my picture of what's around me. I would much rather hear, "X Traffic Shyhawk 587 departing to the southwest 1,200 climbing 4,500 X Traffic" than simply ,"X Traffic Skyhawk 587 departing to the southwest final call X Traffic."

Adding to the original post, I remember as a student pilot flying into a control zone within the mode-C veil of the local TCA(?) in South Florida. I was about 10 miles out with a ceiling around 2000'. The tower informed me that a twin was on the ILS for my Rwy, 9 miles out, so I started looking for traffic ahead of me. All of a sudden my eye catches something flickering just above my windshield. I look up and find myself staring at the belly of a Seneca just a few feet above me! I quickly pushed the nose down and slowly came around for another try after a very good scare.

Back then we didn't have the luxury of GPS and distances were called as best we could determine. In poor visibility that was often more difficult to do. I'm glad we have GPS now and that pilots do a good job of reporting their positions, but I for one would like to hear altitudes and intentions on a more regular basis. And before anyone chimes in with criticism of the landing scenario I just shared, I going on a memory of an event that happened some twenty years ago, so cut me some slack.
 
Everskyward said:
Jets can fly patterns as well as you can. The patterns are just somewhat larger and higher.
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I see jets and large turboprops flying the pattern all the time at Palmdale. Even saw one of the ER-2s doing it once in a brisk summer wind (which I thought was a no-no on that airplane).

I don't see many spam cans there.
 
MAKG1 said:
I see jets and large turboprops flying the pattern all the time at Palmdale. Even saw one of the ER-2s doing it once in a brisk summer wind (which I thought was a no-no on that airplane).

I don't see many spam cans there.
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Jets fly patterns at uncontrolled GA airports too. How do you think they get turned around when coming from the opposite direction of the desired landing runway?
 
Everskyward said:
Jets fly patterns at uncontrolled GA airports too. How do you think they get turned around when coming from the opposite direction of the desired landing runway?
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Jet pilots have been violated for flying straight in approaches at uncontrolled airports also. Alaska Airlines had several.
 
I was on downwind for rwy 24 at PUW about 5 years ago while a Horizon Q400 was taxiing out for takeoff. I could have been down and out of his way, but was was easier to do a 360 and give him room. He had a schedule, I didn't. He was appreciative of my letting him go first. Also made it so I had no hesitation poking my head into the cockpit of one of their Q400s after arriving at SEA from PUW to ask if they had the same problems hitting SEA center from the ground at PUW as I have. They do, BTW.

And straight in approaches? If I'm lined up for one as I approach the airport, that's what I do. Other than one day when a radio cop at PWT claimed they weren't allowed (and didn't say another word when I asked where in the A/FD that was written for PWT) I've never had a problem with that kind of approach or anyone else flying in the area. Keep your head on a swivel and LOOK. In VMC we all must "see and avoid".
 
If you are entering an airport for landing, and you are lined up straight in, the safest thing for everyone concerned is to just land straight in, how is that so tough to understand? :dunno:
 
I'm one of those horrid turbo prop pilots that does straight in approaches, when appropriate. :eek: I listen to CTAF 10 minutes out, determine the appropriate runway, assess the current traffic situation, then decide how to set up my approach. :D It's not that difficult, if there is several in the pattern, I will figure out if it's better to join downwind on a 45, enter on base or go straight in. It's got nothing to do with public property or pecking order, I don't think I've got any different rights than any other pilot, student or ATP. It's a matter of safely entering the traffic flow and landing, while accounting for the different speeds and pattern sizes of the other airplanes in the area. :D
As for waiting our turn, with a pattern speed of 125 knots, it can be difficult SAFELY to join the pattern behind a 50 knot airplane, it's often easier and safer to land ahead of them and get out of the way.;)



CTLSi said:
I just want to reiterate something that maybe some guys never learned, or they forgot, or worse, they purposely don't give a damn.

The air and the fields are PUBLIC property. There is no pecking order to pilots or piloting. A student has the same right to the air and the field as a guy with 8,000 hours.

We all know that an aircraft in emergency has right of way. We also know that med flights should be given special treatment too, but usually they ask for it.

Waiting your turn to land is not just safer, it also shows respect for others. Whether you are flying a Lear, or an experimental, whether you are in a million buck Cirrus, or a $30k used Cessna. Whether you are in an LSA or a weight shift kite. Get in the pattern, and wait your turn.
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N747JB said:
I'm one of those horrid turbo prop pilots that does straight in approaches, when appropriate. :eek: I listen to CTAF 10 minutes out, determine the appropriate runway, assess the current traffic situation, then decide how to set up my approach. :D It's not that difficult, if there is several in the pattern, I will figure out if it's better to join downwind on a 45, enter on base or go straight in. It's got nothing to do with public property or pecking order, I don't think I've got any different rights than any other pilot, student or ATP. It's a matter of safely entering the traffic flow and landing, while accounting for the different speeds and pattern sizes of the other airplanes in the area. :D
As for waiting our turn, with a pattern speed of 125 knots, it can be difficult SAFELY to join the pattern behind a 50 knot airplane, it's often easier and safer to land ahead of them and get out of the way.;)
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That's what the little plane guys seem to forget, a fast plane especially a twin, is going to pass you in the pattern. It's far less safe to have a plane doing 50kts faster than you in the pattern behind you. This is flying, there is no 'waiting' your turn, you sequence in where your speed and position dictate it's the safest relative to other traffic. The safest place for a 120kt airplane to be with a pattern of 70kt airplanes is in front of them on final so they are out of the conflict zone.
 
I'll fly a straight in if coming from that direction, but I also have no problem flying a pattern. However, for the reasons stated above, it isn't that easy to integrate a 130--140 knot airplane into a pattern full of 70 knot airplanes. Of course our pattern is wider and higher but it's probably out there where others are maneuvering for their 45 degree entry.
 
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