I'm working through my instrument rating now, but am struggling to understand the IFR flight planning process. I fly out of Manassas, VA (KHEF) - so say I wanted to plan a flight from KHEF - KCHO. How do you go about planning a flight like this? The confusing part for me is where the enroute structure transfers out of and into the terminal environment. Do you just file to an intersection or nav aid that is close to the airport and expect vectors to the IAF? Any advice would be appreciated!
Planning an IFR flight
- Thread starter mxalix258
- Start date
poadeleted20
Deleted
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2005
- Messages
- 31,250
At PIC, we spend about half a day of ground training working through this. It's not something I can cover with an internet posting. Ask your instructor to sit down with you and go through it. BTW, HEF has some really complicating factors, starting with the Aresenal SID and continuing through the arrival/departure corridors for DCA and IAD.
Bill Watson
En-Route
Here's is what I would do. It assumes GPS usage. It may not be of much help in the instructional environment... I just don't know.
After getting a weather briefing, checking NOTAMS and TFRs, I would file direct KHEF - KCHO at 4,000'. If the weather requires or suggests that an alternate be selected, I file it and check it out too. The obvious alternate for such a short flight is to return to KHEF - always good to know what approach I might fly if I return home for whatever reason.
Having never flown from either airport before, I'd take some time to review the procedures available with a special emphasis on departure procedures at KHEF (ARSENAL THREE). If there were arrival procedures at KCHO I would have given them an extra look too.
On the ground at KHEF with engine off, I would contact Clearance Delivery to get my clearance to see what I'd be expected to fly. Then I would load the flight plan into my navigators and review the clearance on my map. Again, if cleared for the ARSENAL THREE, I 'd spend some extra time making sure I understand how it works. As a practical matter, I don't often get departure or arrival procedures so it always warrants special attention when I do get them.
With maps folded and/or iPad prepped and flight plan input into the navigators, I'd start up and go. If this is my first time at this airport and on this route, 2 deep breaths and a thoughtful moment or two is in order as well.
Generally speaking in the GPS world, you won't really have to deal much with transitions from enroute to the terminal environment. With towered airports on both ends, you will be given all that and it will more likely than not be vectors on departure and arrival. I'd prefer to fly full RNAV approaches from IAF to landing but you will usually get vectors. You will often get the ILS/Loc rather than GPS/RNAV unless you ask for it. Uncontrolled airports is another matter - you'll generally get direct to an IAF for the full approach.
I'm curious to see how others look at this.
AggieMike88
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2010
- Messages
- 20,804
- Location
- Denton, TX
- Display Name
Display name:
The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Resources like www.FltPlan.com will show you recent routings issued by ATC. For example, I see between KHEF and KCHO the route was CNS V140 WITTO
But for a trip that short, I might see about a DIRECT filing.
But as a beginning IFR student myself, I do see the value of spending sufficient one on one time with the CFII to learn this aspect of flight planning properly, as Ron alluded to.
But for a trip that short, I might see about a DIRECT filing.
But as a beginning IFR student myself, I do see the value of spending sufficient one on one time with the CFII to learn this aspect of flight planning properly, as Ron alluded to.
douglas393
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2011
- Messages
- 1,981
- Display Name
Display name:
douglas
I agree talk to your CFII about it. In the real world most of the time I will just go direct, but then again my trips are typically one to two hours at most and there is nothing to avoid in between. While training I would plan it out using airways and VORs, etc and my CFI(I) would ask me why not just go direct. The experience was fun. However, that being said I think I have gotten my filed plan only once, and even with changes, multiple changes typicall occur enroute. My experience has taught me to expect the unexpected, and be prepared to change your route. I actually find this one of the more fun parts of IFR flying, as it adds to the challenge.
roncachamp
Final Approach
What do you mean by terminal environment? Your entire flight will be within Potomac Approach airspace, a terminal facility. File what you can fly without radar assistance with the knowledge that you will likely have it.
Maybe such a short flight was a bad example. I can conceptualize using airways to plan, but at what pint would a flight plan stop? How does the process from the last enroute way point to the IAF typically occur?
poadeleted20
Deleted
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2005
- Messages
- 31,250
Preferred routes, TEC routes, SIDs, ODPs, STAR's, approach procedures, airspace, weather, NOTAMs, etc, etc. Really -- this is the sort of thing you need to learn by sitting down with all the various publications and a good instructor and at least half a day of your time.
Bill Watson
En-Route
One of the things you find out pretty quickly is that trying to anticipate with your filed plan, what you will get for a clearance, is not the objective. Preflight weather may guide your routing and certainly would affect your thinking about alternates but reality is that filing direct is almost always a good start. The real work starts once you get your clearance. (And filed alternates mean nothing once your up unless you go NORDO)
Then there are some routes that just can't be anticipated, even after a dozen trips. For me, KRDU to KHPN is a classic. The only thing I can do with my filed plan is suggest which way I want to go around Philly's Class B - they never let me go over it. I pretty much know the approximate route I will actually fly but filing that is a complete waste of time. Whatever I ask for I will generally be cleared for before takeoff. Within 30 minutes I'll get the "amended clearance, ready to copy". I generally know that clearance too but I also know it will be amended later. And no matter what the "final" clearance is, I'll get vectors that short cut it. In the end, I'll fly approximately what I'm used to flying but there's no way to get that clearance until actually under way. It's just the way flights from the south to KHPN work.
Once you get your rating, the right thing to do is to fly IFR plans whenever you can. But that means that most approaches will be "cleared for the visual to runway 11" though it doesn't hurt to "request vectors for the ILS" if you want to at least walk thru your cockpit procedures. Few flights will be IMC on departure and arrival.
I'm glad I did my training and first few years in a plane sans an AP. Handflying through amended clearances, vectors and slam dunks was definitely a challenge. It's an unnecessary challenge but a good one. I quickly learned that a good AP is your very best of friends. Proficiency with it is as important as handflying.
Thanks for an excuse to ramble on a bit.
douglas393
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2011
- Messages
- 1,981
- Display Name
Display name:
douglas
I think I said or tried to say the samething, I think. As for AP or Otto, I have a perfectly capable AP though it does crap out occasionally, but I still fly all my flights mostly or entirely by hand. I use the AP occassionally for assistance but otherwise I hand fly. I actually become quite bored when I use my AP. I agree with you it can be challenging to do some of the requirements of IFR without an AP, and an AP is a very best of friend, but I still like flying without it better.
hindsight2020
Final Approach
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2010
- Messages
- 7,000
- Display Name
Display name:
hindsight2020
You don't need a half a day or pedantic instructors to answer this question. Generally you'll file your last point to be a point any approach plate for the destination airport, or the airport itself if you're /G.
What happens is that terminal control will ask you of your intentions as you check in with them, them being the last controller you'll talk to before being handed down to tower or to the CTAF frequency. Usually you'll get a good idea of what runway they're using and what approaches are being utilized as part of the flow, depending on how busy the place usually is.
That's it. The short answer to your question is, terminal control will ask you "hey dude, what do you want to do?" prior to reaching your clearance limit. Simple as that. I used to have the same question when I was in your shoes, because the books were vague about that transition. At any rate, that's all there is to it.
The whole STARs and preferred routes are part of that discussion sure, but in general the query above is how they get you into the flow and how you end up established in an approach for your destination.
JHW
En-Route
doesn't have to be complicated. If you're filing airways then terminate at any convenient intersection or VOR close to the airport. If you're flying /G then file to the airport. Don't waste neurons trying to divine what IAF you will use if you even have to fly an approach. Someone will tell you that when you get there.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
roncachamp
Final Approach
At the clearance limit, which is usually an airport.
Typically by the pilot reporting the field in sight and being cleared for a visual approach. If that's not possible it depends on the quality of ATC radar at the destination. If it's good, vectors to the final approach course. If it's not an appropriate nonradar route for procedure entry.
Bill Watson
En-Route
Yes, I think we are saying the same thing here.
My AP is named "Tiger" who is often charged with flying our "Tigressa" (hey, it's an experimental so I call things whatever I want).
Anyway, being able to use an AP "occassionally for assistance" is such a joy that I still can't over it. In fact, I'm not ashamed to say that I enjoy letting Tiger do it whenever I can, though I still do the hand fly thing to maintain proficiency. After a thousand hours chasing a glider's speed-to-fly bug, I get bored hand flying airplanes. Maybe it's just the fact that when the glide computer says pull up, the airplane needs to be pushed over, and vice a versa. Such a contradiction, such inefficiencies!
So, in answer to the OP question, "how do I plan a flight", is the general answer "pick a suitable altitude and file direct, then do your best to anticipate what you will be cleared for as the flight flight progresses?" You can suggest which way you want to go around restricted/difficult airspace by picking a fix on one side or another and you can indicate whether you are willing to go over water in the same way. But otherwise you let the system give you the clearance specifics and you request modifications when needed.
That is much different than we did it back in "VOR airways are primary" days.