Plane Down in Delaware

Ugh. It was pretty much zero/zero here West of Philly ALL day yeserday. I can't imagine it was much better just south of here in Delaware.
 
We made the drive from Annapolis to Hershey and back yesterday. Slow going on the highway at times. Pretty much socked in this area. Not gonna armchair quarterback this one, but not a pleasant day to fly yesterday. RIP.
 
Always sad when a plane goes down. This has nothing to do with this incident, but it is just a story that came to mind. When I was in the Navy, maybe 1972 or 73, we were flying three helicopters from Virginia to Washington DC and got fogged in at the Dover AF base for three days. I was a crewman at the time.
 
Looks like two approaches then a turn to the North. Did any of the reports talk of a miss? His altitude filled was 5000 but the track was showing much higher like 8000 or 9000. Rough way to go.
 
tmyers said:
Looks like two approaches then a turn to the North. Did any of the reports talk of a miss? His altitude filled was 5000 but the track was showing much higher like 8000 or 9000. Rough way to go.
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They said he was in communication with the base at Dover when he went down. Anyone know what full fuel range is on an Arrow? It looks like he was in the air for a bit.

More details, looks like he was a physician: http://www.delawareonline.com/artic...0086/Bayhealth-surgeon-dies-Dover-plane-crash
 
If it was an Arrow II he would have 50 gallons which would have given him around 4 hours plus a 45 minute reserve. If it was an Arrow III he would have up to 72 gallons and over 6 hours. Still that's a long time to fly hard IFR, very tiring.
 
Looked it up. Definitely an Arrow II, so 50 gallon max fuel. Nice video of the aircraft when it was for sale a few years ago on YouTube.
 
N801BH said:
No kidding.......
The final track looks like his was really trying to find a place to land.... The longest 30 minutes of that poor souls life..:sad::sad::sad:

RIP fellow pilot.......:(
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Turn on the aviation sectional view in FA,... sure looks like two approaches. First took a miss and flew on the radial and setup again, then a miss and turn out to the north to an alternate.

Sad. I couldn't imagine. There's been spots lately that it's been so thick to drive, even in mid-day. Fog finally cleared out a bit today.
 
Flightaware says he took off at 2:05pm but the crash report came in just after 7pm. That would be ~ 5 hours which at 10gph is indeed the endurance of the Arrow.
 
dmspilot said:
Flightaware says he took off at 2:05pm but the crash report came in just after 7pm. That would be ~ 5 hours which at 10gph is indeed the endurance of the Arrow.
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That is probably the case......

Whenever you see a pic of a plane that is that crumpled up in a heap on the ground and there is NO fire.... The reason is usually "excess air in fuel tanks"..:redface::(:sad:
 
Flight aware shows the flight duration at 3:47. Not sure how it calculates this but he should have had fuel left.
 
Very sad. It would be interesting to hear what ATC was doing to help. Assuming he ran out of gas flying around looking for a place to get in that is really, really, disappointing.

Before that happens to me I'm going to the longest, best lit, hopefully Class B runway around and shoot a 0/0 if need be. Bring it in a dot high, approach flaps, and try to hit the pavement as soft as I can. Why would anyone do anything else?
 
Alexb2000 said:
Very sad. It would be interesting to hear what ATC was doing to help. Assuming he ran out of gas flying around looking for a place to get in that is really, really, disappointing.

Before that happens to me I'm going to the longest, best lit, hopefully Class B runway around and shoot a 0/0 if need be. Bring it in a dot high, approach flaps, and try to hit the pavement as soft as I can. Why would anyone do anything else?
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That would be my plan too....:yes:
 
tmyers said:
If it was an Arrow II he would have 50 gallons which would have given him around 4 hours plus a 45 minute reserve. If it was an Arrow III he would have up to 72 gallons and over 6 hours. Still that's a long time to fly hard IFR, very tiring.
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Guy in our flying club ran a 160hp 50 gallon warrior out of fuel in 4:45. At night, he made one approach, went missed, ran out of fuel, crashed.

He was probably running it rich.
 
The flight track sure makes it look like he was headed somewhere. Not sure if he was heading to a different airport or just trying to find better weather. I am sure we will hear soon if there was fuel on board or just air.

<------ hits close to home if you see what I am flying!
 
tmyers said:
Flight aware shows the flight duration at 3:47. Not sure how it calculates this but he should have had fuel left.
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See the article...Flightaware is wrong. The crash occured at 7:10pm about 2 miles north of Dover AFB. He had declared an emergency with Dover Tower.
 
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Newbie question - In a case like this, would it be prudent to when on a XC trip like this, to plan the trip to always make a fuel stop half way? It seems that would've prevents many of these fuel exhaustion incidents.

I am wondering if he had gotten away with close to running out of fuel before many times, and this is the one time that he did.
 
Rayden said:
Newbie question - In a case like this, would it be prudent to when on a XC trip like this, to plan the trip to always make a fuel stop half way? It seems that would've prevents many of these fuel exhaustion incidents.

I am wondering if he had gotten away with close to running out of fuel before many times, and this is the one time that he did.
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If you have any device with XM then always look ahead to see what the conditions are like at airports in your flight path. When I see lots of airports below/near minimums, a weather system moving in, temps falling, or anything else that gives me pause, you can bet that I am getting gas before I get into it. On the ground, I'll look again throughly, cancel, wait, divert, or if it looks doable go in with lots of gas. Good planning will keep you from 99.9% of problems like this.
 
tmyers said:
The flight track sure makes it look like he was headed somewhere. Not sure if he was heading to a different airport or just trying to find better weather. I am sure we will hear soon if there was fuel on board or just air.

<------ hits close to home if you see what I am flying!
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From what I have been able to gather, his origination destination was Summit airport where he is based. He flew there initially and then flew to Salisbury and did a couple of approaches. It did not look like he shot the ILSs based on the FlightAware altitudes. His track then was towards Dover AFB, where he might have been able to find either the 9,600' or 12,900' runways.

I was scheduled to fly that afternoon but the weather was much worse than forecast. We were supposed to see improving conditions during the afternoon. It never happened.
 
Rayden said:
Newbie question - In a case like this, would it be prudent to when on a XC trip like this, to plan the trip to always make a fuel stop half way? It seems that would've prevents many of these fuel exhaustion incidents.

I am wondering if he had gotten away with close to running out of fuel before many times, and this is the one time that he did.
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The early TAFs were supposed to be for improving weather during the afternoon. If I remember correctly, they were amended throughout the day. I live in the state and it is rare to see these kind of conditions for the extended period we did. Visibility was very low in fog.

Unfortunately the pilot is no longer with us to answer your questions. I suspect since he was speaking with Dover, more specific details of the accident will come out in the report.
 
I had a charter scheduled for that afternoon. The weather did not improve as was forecast. We scrubbed the charter. The entire northeast was pretty much socked in. There were no really good alternates for the entire area. The closest I could find for my Trenton destination was AVP, but it never got better during the day either. Most of the day the entire area was showing at or below minimums.
 
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Aztec Driver said:
I had a charter scheduled for that afternoon. The weather did not improve as was forecast. We scrubbed the charter. The entire northeast was pretty much socked in. There were no really good alternates for the entire area. The closest I could find for my Trenton destination was AVP, but it never got better during the day either. Most of the day the entire area was showing at or below minimums.
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It was a bizarre day for sure. Never seen it that foggy for that long of a period of time. I didn't realize the low conditions extended that far.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
 
He might have been trying for a supervised approach, if they still have such a things in the military
 
I remember our tower flowers working in GCA which was Ground Control Approach. They might have callednitna PAR I am not sure. Basically the ground radar allowed the controller to give a string of instructions like up down left and right. This approach could bring a KC135 right onto the runway in ice fog.
 
N801BH said:
Is a "supervised" approach a PAR ???
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Either a surveillance or PAR.


Nothing suggested at this point he was contending with instrumentation problems. I think he could have flown there hoping for the ILS on a really long runway with radar at the base.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
 
Alexb2000 said:
If you have any device with XM then always look ahead to see what the conditions are like at airports in your flight path. When I see lots of airports below/near minimums, a weather system moving in, temps falling, or anything else that gives me pause, you can bet that I am getting gas before I get into it. On the ground, I'll look again throughly, cancel, wait, divert, or if it looks doable go in with lots of gas. Good planning will keep you from 99.9% of problems like this.
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:yeahthat:

That works for me. Look for trends, and avoid the lightening strikes. ;)
 
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Over the years I have developed lots of rules from watching others lose the contest with Fate.
In relation to this crash:
Always be fat on fuel. I have 6 hours capacity. I never land with less than 1.5 hours still on board - and I shoot for 2 hours most of the time. With less capacity, set 1 hour as your absolute minimum and never violate it.
Yes, you should land for fuel half way there if that is what it takes.

With my Super Viking I once landed 20 minutes from home when the fuel hit one hour. (nasty, unforecasted headwinds)

In a situation where the entire area has gone to 0-0 make one approach to minimums to prove it and to get some practice.
Then go around and on the second pass keep the needles centered and ride it right to the ground at 300 fpm descent. You should be on the airport and in the vicinity of the runway. Your odds of survival are vastly, vastly higher than running out of fuel or just getting so exhausted you lose it.
 
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