Plane Down Coney Island Beach

MSmith

MSmith

Line Up and Wait
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Mark Smith
Happened just over an hour ago. Not much news yet.

4 dead in crash of "small plane" on Coney Island beach near sunbathers.

WNBC Report
 
A Newsday article says that all 4 were onboard the "Cessna" and that it came down nose first.
 
Tail number N778LP

NY Times article says that the plane made a left turn and then fell like a rock. One witness reported hearing the engine sputter just before the turn.
 
Seems like the plane is used by a flight school at Teteroboro (TEB ).
 
Plane was from Linden (KLDJ) where I am based. I'm still waiting for more info, but sadly the PIC might be a friend of mine. It was supposedly a Discovery Flight.
 
Mark, I posted this on Avisg and The Pilots Lounge...


Just got word the PIC/CFI was a friend of ours. I met this fine young man last June after flying my Diamond back from Canada. I was looking for a CFI to ride along while I got familiar with the aircraft and get night current. He had flown C-1's while in Florida and was very sharp. I found him to be a very safety conscious pilot & instructor. My condolances to his family and the family of his passengers. I will miss his bright smile and enthusiasum for flying.
 
If it was a CFI at the control then I would have to assume engine failure. That's what several witnesses reported.
 
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In a stunning example of ****-poor reporting, the New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/311911p-266840c.html), at the end of its story about the tragic accident at Coney Island, included this gem, pointing out the "troubled past" of Cessna aircraft:

<li> TROUBLED PAST

Recent mishaps involving Cessnas:





<li>May 11: Two confused fliers in a two-seat Cessna 150 wandered into restricted air space over Washington, causing panicked evacuations of the White House, Capitol Hill and the Supreme Court.

<li>April 23: A student pilot and his instructor were killed when a Cessna 172 crashed in a wooded area about 2 miles from Westchester County Airport. The pilot had apparently been practicing instrument landing approaches, according to the FAA.



<li>April 23: A 46-year-old pilot was forced to land a rented 1979 Cessna 172 on Main St. in Duncanville, Tex., when the engine suddenly cut out at 1,500 feet. No one was hurt.

<li>Jan. 5, 2002: A suicidal teenager, Charles Bishop, flew a Cessna 172R into a building in downtown Tampa, killing himself. No one else was injured. He left a note expressing sympathy for Osama Bin Laden.
 
Sigh! Why do these things always happen a few days before I'm trying to get my notoriously reluctant wife in the plane for a long XC? Now she wants me to assure her that this guy made a mistake that I would never make.

She completely overlooked the motorcycle fatality, two car accident fatalities and the couple standing at the bus stop on the sidewalk who were taken out by a drunk driver - all of which in articles just below the plane story! :dunno:
 
SCCutler said:
included this gem, pointing out the "troubled past" of Cessna aircraft:
Click to expand...

What a shining example of absolutely brilliant objective professionalism at it's best!

In THREE years all the reporter could come up with was 4 entries. Only 2 of which might but not necessarily may have something to do with the airplane itself and the other two are most certainly bonehead moves where the plane was just an innocent victim. I can list 5 indications of "troubled past" that chevrolet, ford and crysler had just from the 8 mile drive home on friday alone. Obviously that's not a problem though. Hypocrites!

BTW: Local news last night(direct quote); "All 4 people in the Piper were killed in the plane."

Sigh.

1st rule of flying: Maintain flying speed, as long as you have flying speed you can make the plane do what you want it to.
 
Newspaper articles always say "the engine stalled."

It sounds like a typical stall/spin accident, but there was also reference to "sputtering" and someone else thought he heard the engine stop three times. Very sad for the sightseers, who must have been so excited to take that ride.
 
The excellent media report I heard referred to the cause as a "severe tailspin." What in the world is that?!? Now I'm going to have to answer another volley of stupid questions at work tomorrow.
 
Here is a view of the chart of the area. The airspace has a 1,500 foot ceiling (JFK Class B above and to the east the B space goes to the surface) but that's the only complication in the immediate area
 
tom. said:
The excellent media report I heard referred to the cause as a "severe tailspin." What in the world is that?!?
Click to expand...

A "severe tailspin" is what happens when your dog is chasing you around the end of the sofa in a very tight turn at Vne+5 and his tail is spinning around the opposite direction to counter the linear momentum that's trying to tumble him across the floor.

No clue how this applies to the empennage of airplanes though. Way too many control linkage issues.
 
I still can't believe this.

I saw the name of the pilot and I still can't link him to the person.

This was one of my instructors at Linden back when I was a student pilot.

I talked to him just saturday morning. I was there to drop my plane for a mechanic at Linden.

I stopped by the school and I talked to him for about half an hour ... chatting and catching up.

That same day. Saturday. Yesterday morning.

I keep thinking it's just a big mistake. It's somebody else ... not him. I keep thinking I am going to go back to the school and there he will be ...
 
Marco said:
I still can't believe this.

I saw the name of the pilot and I still can't link him to the person.

This was one of my instructors at Linden back when I was a student pilot.

I talked to him just saturday morning. I was there to drop my plane for a mechanic at Linden.

I stopped by the school and I talked to him for about half an hour ... chatting and catching up.

That same day. Saturday. Yesterday morning.

I keep thinking it's just a big mistake. It's somebody else ... not him. I keep thinking I am going to go back to the school and there he will be ...
Click to expand...


I am so sorry for you, Marco. I have lost a close friend in a crash. The initial disbelief is so strong. So is the ensuing grief.
 
You got a figure a few hundred more feet and he could have broken the spin. Unless it was a control issues
 
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I just got off the phone with my Dad (from W.Va.) and I found out that the passengers on this flight were personal friends of his who lived near him. It was a sightseeing trip for them (not a discovery flight). My dad was pretty shaken up about this, and said he now is worried about me flying.
 
Steve said:
AP is reporting it was "a sightseeing tour for aspiring pilots" whatever that is...
Click to expand...
My dad got his information from a family member of the deceased pax... So I dunno, i'm not trying to say the AP is wrong. It's 2nd hand information either way you look at it.
 
Very sad deal. My condolences to those who knew the people
on board.
 
NEWS said:
The pilot, 32-year-old Andrew Allen, was from a flight school called RJ Ventures of Paramus, N.J. Investigators say Allen had only logged about 1900 hours of flight time. .
Click to expand...

*ONLY* 1900 hours of flight time? ONLY? They make it sound like he was a low time recreational pilot. :dunno:
 
I do not know the details of this accident, but four souls onboard a C-172S? Even if the craft was not overweight, the CG may have been aft of limits. Stalling at low altitude, it may not have been possible to get the nose down to break the stall. I love the C-172, but consider it a "2+ passenger craft."

Tony
 
I thought the same thing when I saw 4 people. Unless they were all very skinny. Still, I fly an R model Skyhawk and only feel comfortable with 3 people max (keep it under max weight) and then on top of that I only fill the tanks to the tabs. With the people I usually go with I can keep within CG and be under weight yet have plenty of fuel to do a decent XC.

Not to pollute the thread but looks like a 182 went down in my home state of CT. Ill be flying home (Delta not Cessna LOL) from GA. to CT. to visit friends family next week. Perfect timing, they can all grill me a little more:
http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?S=3379827

I need to keep my wife away from the news this evening :rofl:
 
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tonyliotta said:
I do not know the details of this accident, but four souls onboard a C-172S? Even if the craft was not overweight, the CG may have been aft of limits. Stalling at low altitude, it may not have been possible to get the nose down to break the stall. I love the C-172, but consider it a "2+ passenger craft."

Tony
Click to expand...

At least a couple of the passengers were female, which increases the odds they were under the 170 pound "standard" passenger size. All the Skyhawk SPs I fly will easily carry 3 "standard" adults, full gas, and a bit left over. With two adults up front, it's unlikely you'll be out of limits unless the back seaters are BIG.
 
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