Plane crash in Kitty Hawk NC

Concorde

Concorde

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Concorde
Our rental plane crashed in Kitty Hawk Sunday morning . Passenger walked away with minor injuries but the pilot suffered more serious injuries . Hopefully he is going to be fine .
It was a nice little plane and I will miss her .
I guess I am grounded for awhile .
http://outerbanksvoice.com
 
Concorde said:
Our rental plane crashed in Kitty Hawk Sunday morning . Passenger walked away with minor injuries but the pilot suffered more serious injuries . Hopefully he is going to be fine .
It was a nice little plane and I will miss her .
I guess I am grounded for awhile .
http://outerbanksvoice.com
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Geez..... how in the hell did he get over in those trees..:dunno:
 
Concorde said:
Winds gusting to 32 may have something to do with that .
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Based on the newspaper account(suspect, I know - but they usually get the impact point "close"), the plane came down in the wooded area south of 02. That area is over 1/4 mile short of the threshold. Wind gusts; seriously?
 
Papa Foxtrot said:
Based on the newspaper account(suspect, I know - but they usually get the impact point "close"), the plane came down in the wooded area south of 02. That area is over 1/4 mile short of the threshold. Wind gusts; seriously?
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I don't know all the facts yet , butI do know what strong gusty winds can do to Allegro .
Have you flown Allegro ?
 
Another lsa incident,next we will be asking the pilots age. The allegro can be a had full in the gusty winds.
 
Concorde said:
I don't know all the facts yet , butI do know what strong gusty winds can do to Allegro .
Have you flown Allegro ?
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Haven't flown one, and frankly, if a wind gust can knock it out of the air 1/4 mile from the runway, then I don't think I want to.

Seriously, I think the wind gust had a greater effect on the pilot than it did the airframe.
 
Concorde said:
I don't know all the facts yet , butI do know what strong gusty winds can do to Allegro .
Have you flown Allegro ?
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I don't have a stick time in Allegro, but I heard about its odd relationship with the winds. In particular, they say, the model 2007 is placarded "NO LANDINGS WITH TAILWIND". That should only be relevant when airplane is on the ground, not on 1/4 mile final, but it made me on lookout of stories of Allegro and winds. Please share if you have anything.

BTW, the crashed aircraft is the model 2000. Supposedly 2007 is vastly improved over that, but again it's difficult to find any specific information.
 
Concorde said:
I don't know all the facts yet , butI do know what strong gusty winds can do to Allegro .
Have you flown Allegro ?
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Wouldn't you think that someone checked out in this airplane would have a little respect for the winds? I don't care what plane you're flying, one should know the plane's limitations and when to go around.
 
The subdivision that he nearly dropped into is called "Baum Bay Harbor".
 
I bet they did not file a flight plan. The news media is slacking on this one.
 
Wonder if this statement was in his POH...

Maximum Demonstrated Headwind Speed (i.e. against the direction of the flight)= 23 mph.

Metar @ 10:55 AM was indicating 15G24.2 mph. Wow, I have heard of max crosswind, but the first for a max headwind. Wonder if he was using the full 48 degrees of flaps?

Glad they both made it and hoping for a speedy recovery!
 
Surprise! Winds at First Flight (the reason it is First Flight.) On take off in my little C150 I had 18G24, and just as I got airborne saw a very large herd of very small deer just left at the end of the runway.
 
He could not have timed his landing any better with a cold front passing through.
 
Maybe an engine issue and, given the wind, he couldn't make the field?
 
Maximum Demonstrated Headwind Speed

Evektor Sportstar has something simular. 25 kts I think. Was pretty squirly in 10-15 kt winds. Someitmes was like riding a bull on final.
 
RV10flyer said:
Wonder if this statement was in his POH...

Maximum Demonstrated Headwind Speed (i.e. against the direction of the flight)= 23 mph.

Metar @ 10:55 AM was indicating 15G24.2 mph. Wow, I have heard of max crosswind, but the first for a max headwind. Wonder if he was using the full 48 degrees of flaps?

Glad they both made it and hoping for a speedy recovery!
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Looks like full flaps looking at the picture .
 
Concorde said:
I don't know all the facts yet , but I do know what strong gusty winds can do to Allegro .
Have you flown Allegro ?
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I guess we have a generation of pilots now who have never flown a J-3 Cub, T-craft or any of the old lightly-loaded taildraggers that are still very common, and thousands of pilots learned to fly in...and which are more lightly loaded than the Allegro or most other LSA's. I've flown J-3's a bunch and in some nasty winds. Gusty winds not an excuse for crashing into trees unless you are exercising very poor judgment.
 
RoscoeT said:
I guess we have a generation of pilots now who have never flown a J-3 Cub, T-craft or any of the old lightly-loaded taildraggers that are still very common, and thousands of pilots learned to fly in...and which are more lightly loaded than the Allegro or most other LSA's. I've flown J-3's a bunch and in some nasty winds. Gusty winds not an excuse for crashing into trees unless you are exercising very poor judgment.
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You are correct.

I learned how to fly in 172's: 14 lbs/sq ft.

Now my -10: 18 lbs/sq ft.

Allegro 2000: 10 lbs/sq ft.:eek:

J-3 Cub: 7 lbs/sq ft.:hairraise::yikes:

I spoke to a friend after we both flew our planes on Fri in what I thought was mild turbulence and he said he really got beat up. He was in a Zenith CH701: 9 lbs/ sq ft. I think I am liking my -10 better all the time! Well except for that 53 kt stall speed.
 
RoscoeT said:
I guess we have a generation of pilots now who have never flown a J-3 Cub, T-craft or any of the old lightly-loaded taildraggers that are still very common, and thousands of pilots learned to fly in...and which are more lightly loaded than the Allegro or most other LSA's. I've flown J-3's a bunch and in some nasty winds. Gusty winds not an excuse for crashing into trees unless you are exercising very poor judgment.
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Try to remember that in the good ol' days, those J-3s, Taylorcraft and Aeroncas ended up in the trees too. They still do 60 years later. Then, just like now, some pilots just don't know when to go around, call it quits, or stay on the ground in the first place. Thousands of pilots will learn today in the new LSAs and not end up in the trees, just like generations before them did. I really wish pilots would throw away their rose tinted glasses, because the good ol' days weren't that great and the way things are going now, there are fewer accidents per hour flown then there ever was back in the day.
 
RoscoeT said:
Gusty winds not an excuse for crashing into trees unless you are exercising very poor judgment.
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I'm guessing that he flew the approach "by the numbers"; just like he was taught(how many SP's, or pilots for that matter, train in windy conditions?). Didn't adjust enough for the headwind and wound up low, slow, draggy and behind the power curve - not to mention getting his brains beat out by the gusts at the same time. Prob'ly thought he could squeak in over the trees, but the wind coming across the tree line created a down draft that put him in the tops. Or he may have just stalled it into the trees. It's tough when you're low, slow and needing to push forward to get airspeed...

Certainly hope their injuries are minor and heal quickly. Better outcome than most crashes lately!
 
RV10flyer said:
You are correct.

I learned how to fly in 172's: 14 lbs/sq ft.

Now my -10: 18 lbs/sq ft.

Allegro 2000: 10 lbs/sq ft.:eek:

J-3 Cub: 7 lbs/sq ft.:hairraise::yikes:

I spoke to a friend after we both flew our planes on Fri in what I thought was mild turbulence and he said he really got beat up. He was in a Zenith CH701: 9 lbs/ sq ft. I think I am liking my -10 better all the time! Well except for that 53 kt stall speed.
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Hmm... I'm building a Bearhawk LSA. 7.8 lbs/sqft. Gonna' buy some good harnesses!
 
Dav8or said:
Try to remember that in the good ol' days, those J-3s, Taylorcraft and Aeroncas ended up in the trees too. They still do 60 years later. Then, just like now, some pilots just don't know when to go around, call it quits, or stay on the ground in the first place. Thousands of pilots will learn today in the new LSAs and not end up in the trees, just like generations before them did. I really wish pilots would throw away their rose tinted glasses, because the good ol' days weren't that great and the way things are going now, there are fewer accidents per hour flown then there ever was back in the day.
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My post was a response to the challenge that was issued by someone to the tune of "Ever flown an Allegro?" ...as if the Allegro has unique characteristics compared to so many other aircraft that pilots still fly. I never said the "good old days" were any better or safer than they are now.

I was pointing out the generation difference now, considering that anyone who thinks an Allegro is unique likely is a new generation pilot whoes experience is limited to 172s or Warriors....or now Allegros. :)

I still maintain wing loading is no excuse for crashing into trees.

Papa Foxtrot said:
I'm guessing that he flew the approach "by the numbers"; just like he was taught(how many SP's, or pilots for that matter, train in windy conditions?). Didn't adjust enough for the headwind and wound up low, slow, draggy and behind the power curve - not to mention getting his brains beat out by the gusts at the same time. Prob'ly thought he could squeak in over the trees, but the wind coming across the tree line created a down draft that put him in the tops. Or he may have just stalled it into the trees. It's tough when you're low, slow and needing to push forward to get airspeed...
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Again, everything you just described involves poor judgment and decision making...not to mention pilot skill.
 
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Think taylorcraft when allegro is mentioned. Either, in 32 mph winds, gusts, should be in the hanger. Allegro is like a feather at 12 mph.
 
I've owned a bunch of taildraggers. I learned in a champ. I can assure you that no instruction was given at over 10 -12 knots especially in a 90 degree cross wind. If your flying a cub, a t craft, a champ in 32 mph winds, trying to land, unless your damn good, with a lot of hours, you probably will wind up, in an allegro,or any of the above, exactly where they wound up. The crowd that says 32 mph wind in these type light aircraft is no problem is the same bunch that walked 12 miles to school in the snow with no shoes.
 
It looked like winds were 12G19 from 020, right down the runway. Where did 32 mph come from.
 
RV10flyer said:
It looked like winds were 12G19 from 020, right down the runway. Where did 32 mph come from.
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Someone in post 4 made the unsupported statement that winds were gusting to 32 and Jimmy probably didn't click on the link to the Factual.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
I've owned a bunch of taildraggers. I learned in a champ. I can assure you that no instruction was given at over 10 -12 knots especially in a 90 degree cross wind.
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No clue where you learned to fly, but if you limited yourself to a 12 kt max wind, you'd be hard pressed getting your tailwheel endorsement in New England.
 
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