Plan down. And no flight plan filed

Wow, that witness is hot!

And do those police supervisors wear those white shirts and hats all day, or do they just put them on to go out and stand around a scene with their hands in their pockets?
 
Mercer said the man had to be cut out of the plane using extrication tools. Crews cut away pieces of the plane so the pilot could be removed without any further injuries.

Man....My biggest fear is being trapped in anything.
 
Man....My biggest fear is being trapped in anything.

I wonder how well those little hammers work.
I have them in both planes but I have heard more stories of people being trapped in planes than I have heard about them hammering their way out.
 
Wow, that witness is hot!

And do those police supervisors wear those white shirts and hats all day, or do they just put them on to go out and stand around a scene with their hands in their pockets?

I thought those guys were fire not police.
 
I know the pilot. He's been flying Grummans a very long time. The lure of turning back to the airport after a takeoff engine failure is immensely strong. I've lost more than one pilot friend that way.
 
This actual test convinced me to carry a hammer.

Looks like the hammer is in my near future.



Methanol is the fuel being used and is what is burning. Methanol is a hygroscopic compound, meaning it combines with water easily. The easiest way to put a methanol (or any alcohol) fire out is with WATER. Using a ABC 5 pound fire extinguisher is NOT going to work. This fire crew is as useful as a screen door in a submarine and this driver is lucky.
 
Looks like the hammer is in my near future.



Methanol is the fuel being used and is what is burning. Methanol is a hygroscopic compound, meaning it combines with water easily. The easiest way to put a methanol (or any alcohol) fire out is with WATER. Using a ABC 5 pound fire extinguisher is NOT going to work. This fire crew is as useful as a screen door in a submarine and this driver is lucky.
Why do you say that ABC won't work with alcohols? To my eyes, that fire was bigger than the extinguishers those people had- they were mostly blowing the fire around.

As you know, dry chemical smothers the fire. The compounds in the ABC extinguisher don't dissolve in alcohols so they can smother as well as if it were sprayed on gasoline (or hexanes, which is what we used in our training). I grant you that water will put out alcohol fires.
 
Why do you say that ABC won't work with alcohols? To my eyes, that fire was bigger than the extinguishers those people had- they were mostly blowing the fire around.

They were using 5 pounders and most of the folks started spraying too far away from the fire. And yes, dry chemicals smothers the fire. One problem was the alcohol was still pouring out of the damaged fuel cell, so smothering won't work. A few 5 pounders did not have enough coverage to keep up with the amount of alcohol pouring out of the fuel cell. I guess I wasn't very clear, the problem here was the small size of the extinguishers and too few extinguishers.

Of course there was no way to stop the alcohol from pouring out of a hole, but water would have stopped the fire and cooled down the hot metal to stop re-igniting the fire. The fire crew at this track just did not have the correct equipment. And to me it did not look like the crew were trained in fire fighting.

Unless I missed it, I did not see anyone in the "aluminum foil" fire suit. I also did not see anyone trying to cut the belts. A track that is properly prepared will not need drivers getting out of their cars to try to rescue a burning driver.

I have been involved in a couple race car fires, plus pit fires.

My fear list is:
1. Velcro.

2. being trapped.

3. The sound of dripping fuel.

4. Fire.

Ok, kidding on the Velcro part....
 
They were using 5 pounders and most of the folks started spraying too far away from the fire. And yes, dry chemicals smothers the fire. One problem was the alcohol was still pouring out of the damaged fuel cell, so smothering won't work. A few 5 pounders did not have enough coverage to keep up with the amount of alcohol pouring out of the fuel cell. I guess I wasn't very clear, the problem here was the small size of the extinguishers and too few extinguishers.

Of course there was no way to stop the alcohol from pouring out of a hole, but water would have stopped the fire and cooled down the hot metal to stop re-igniting the fire. The fire crew at this track just did not have the correct equipment. And to me it did not look like the crew were trained in fire fighting.

Unless I missed it, I did not see anyone in the "aluminum foil" fire suit. I also did not see anyone trying to cut the belts. A track that is properly prepared will not need drivers getting out of their cars to try to rescue a burning driver.

I have been involved in a couple race car fires, plus pit fires.

My fear list is:
1. Velcro.

2. being trapped.

3. The sound of dripping fuel.

4. Fire.

Ok, kidding on the Velcro part....
Ah, I understand now. This post ^^^ clarifies things greatly.
 
It works better if you read the witness quotes in OkieFlyer’s voice.
 
They were using 5 pounders and most of the folks started spraying too far away from the fire. And yes, dry chemicals smothers the fire. One problem was the alcohol was still pouring out of the damaged fuel cell, so smothering won't work. A few 5 pounders did not have enough coverage to keep up with the amount of alcohol pouring out of the fuel cell. I guess I wasn't very clear, the problem here was the small size of the extinguishers and too few extinguishers.

Of course there was no way to stop the alcohol from pouring out of a hole, but water would have stopped the fire and cooled down the hot metal to stop re-igniting the fire. The fire crew at this track just did not have the correct equipment. And to me it did not look like the crew were trained in fire fighting.

Unless I missed it, I did not see anyone in the "aluminum foil" fire suit. I also did not see anyone trying to cut the belts. A track that is properly prepared will not need drivers getting out of their cars to try to rescue a burning driver.

I have been involved in a couple race car fires, plus pit fires.

My fear list is:
1. Velcro.

2. being trapped.

3. The sound of dripping fuel.

4. Fire.

Ok, kidding on the Velcro part....
The failures of that fire...errr...ummm....'watching' crew were rather epic. I'm guessing they hadn't even read about how to put out a fire much less trained. I'm typing this as a guy who put out a burning natural gas well with a thirty pound dry chemical extinguisher. I hadn't been to fire school but at least I read about how to do it. It's great that the guy survived. I'm sure he had a lot of pain and probably still has pain.

Anyway, if you don't have a clue how to fight a fire, don't pretend to. You'll just get hurt or get someone else hurt.

Could the fire have been suppressed with five pounders? Maybe, if they'd lined up about three pairs of them and attacked in sequence. Of course ya need training to even attempt that. Looks like they eventually got some big-assed extinguishers in there and it's tough to mess up with those. The big white cloud and then the fire scene with dry chem all around are give aways that they finally used more than five pounders. I bet the big extinguishers came from pit crews rather than the track.

Of course a water deluge would have cooled things off and ya gotta have a water truck for a dirt track. Guess they didn't plan for alternate uses of the water truck.
 
You suck. And so does FastEddie. I even watched thinking it was going to get better. o_O

Banjo33? I’m betting 33 is one more than the total number of teeth in that witnesses whole family. And you aren’t impressed with her comely features? Yeah, right. A banjo picker will take anything he can get. ;)
 
They got gun belts with holsters and handcuffs.

Watched it again. I stand corrected. I watched it on my phone vertically and didn’t look that close and just thought they were fire chiefs or something. Not sure why cops would wear white shirts. Wouldn’t the jelly donut stains show up too easily?


;)
 
Watched it again. I stand corrected. I watched it on my phone vertically and didn’t look that close and just thought they were fire chiefs or something. Not sure why cops would wear white shirts. Wouldn’t the jelly donut stains show up too easily?
;)

White hats and white shirts is a thing with city cops in Ohio.

While its easier to see the jelly stains, it hides the powdered sugar better than blue, maroon or green.
 
Banjo33? I’m betting 33 is one more than the total number of teeth in that witnesses whole family. And you aren’t impressed with her comely features? Yeah, right. A banjo picker will take anything he can get. ;)

I wouldn’t be surprised if that family tree is as straight as a telephone. But hey, I’m sure she has a great personality!
 
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