Pirep - Pray Aviation, Kansas

[deftone]

Anybody on here spent any time at Pray Aviation in Augusta, Kansas?

I am looking at doing an accelerated Instrument Rating here but have not been able to find much information from others who have been there. From my discussions with the owner I feel very impressed and comfortable to go ahead. Just thought I would ask y'all what your experience was.

(P.S Used the search and didnt come up with much)

 

[deftone]

As an additional piece of info....I was between Pray and Sportys as they were the ones that best met my schedule plus were responsive to my questions.

GATTS was originally my #1 choice, however they are fully booked up until Summer, we have child # 4 due in the summer so I needed to get it done before then! I also considered Double Eagle in AZ, however they have not responded to any of my communications.

I am open to considering any other options that you may recommend.

 

[AggieMike88]

Several of us have used PIC (www.iflyifr.com) and are happy with service and results....

One suggestion for the intensive courses, book an additional day or two. They all market for 10 day courses, and that can be done. But if you have a day that you cannot fly due to weather, maintenance, or need to repeat a flight or two, the 10 day schedule gets super tight and difficult to complete.

 

[James331]

Why not just find a good CFII and plane with solid and matching availability?

Really is no such thing as an accelerates course, it will take you as long as it takes you, better to understand the material and have it take 17 days, than get trained for the test and get shot out in 10 days.


If you have a good CFII and plane, how long it takes really comes down to the student, remeber this is education for a skill that if not mastered will kill you, not fast food.

 

[AggieMike88]

better to understand the material and have it take 17 days, than get trained for the test and get shot out in 10 days.

I agree. Being prepared for the check ride does not adequately prepare you for the real thing. That takes many more hours of flying, slowly expanding your skill, and experiencing several brown pants moments that become significant learning opportunities.

The intense courses are convenient, but for similar money and not much more time, you’ll have a better experience if you expand the schedule to 21 days and focus more that what is in the ACS.

 

[tonycondon]

a friend did her multi rating with Pray. I don't have any direct experience but they've been up and running for 4 years or so now, seem to stay fairly busy.

 

[OverTQ]

I went there. I wasn't impressed.

Considering that (1) it's advertised as an accelerated program, (2) I scheduled well in advance, and (3) they charge a steep premium for the opportunity to attend their course, I expected to show up and already have my sessions with an instructor scheduled, all of my bookings in the aircraft already on the schedule, and a checkride already scheduled (as they promised). None of these things happened, not even the first flight was scheduled when I showed up. The entire operation was reactionary, for every student, the entire time I was there. It's as if they throw a handful of airplanes, a handful of instructors, and a handful of students into the same pile and just hope it works out.

Due to the lack of organization, my training took about a week longer than it was supposed to. It took 12 days to get 11 hours of flight training and take two checkrides. I could have saved thousands of dollars and accomplished the same thing faster at a local part 61 school, while saving the time and money of traveling to Wichita and spending $300/week to sleep in their accommodations.

Thank god for the compassion of other trainees, or my time would have been extended even more. Some trainees are there for a lot more training (live there for months), and they were kind enough to let me cut in line for training and checkrides so I could get out of there. In fact, it was often the trainees that negotiated the schedule, divvied up the aircraft availability, and then communicated those plans to the staff, since the staff was only doing it half the time.

The aircraft are nothing nice, but they seem roughly airworthy. The quality of instruction was across the board. Some good, some really bad.

All that being said, there were some great people there. One of the junior instructors was incredibly motivated and helpful; he did everything in his power to meet expectations, but he faced a significant uphill battle. The office manager also seemed effective and fast at handling the training functions she was tasked with, but again, she could only control so much. It's my understanding that she has left.

To their credit, they seem to have good intentions. It just seems like management is blind to the organization's weaknesses. The owner is unjustifiably proud of their product.

The place does have a lot of potential. It's a non-towered airport, so you don't waste training time on the ground. You're in the air quick. The training area is nearby. Their accommodations are on site. It could be a really efficient, effective operation, it's just poorly managed. The organization needs better leadership, or at least it did when I was there.

So, would I recommend them? No.

Do I think you'll get the training you ask for? You will. Maybe within a reasonable time frame and without frustration, maybe not.

 

[deftone]

Hmm, interesting information, it certainly makes me wonder if this would be the way forward. I would not be happy to travel all that distance to get messed around with scheduling.

To answer some of the other comments.... Unfortunately I live in Rural Louisiana, had I still been living in Houston I would have totally gotten on board with finding a local CFII. I had a great CFI who guided me through most of my PPL before the Regionals scooped him up and based him in Arizona. There is one other CFII in town, however he is so busy I have only managed to get 1 lesson in 3 weeks. A major problem being that he doesnt own an aircraft, relying on one rented from a local Ag firm who has a 172 for their employees to joyride in. The A&P's are usually too busy working on the AgCats to worry about keeping the 172 in its 100hr, nevermind any repair work, so it is frequently down for days at a time.

I realize that an accelerated course is certainly not ideal, however in this situation I see not many other options but to travel to complete the rating.

 

[AggieMike88]

One aspect about PIC, they send an instructor that is dedicated to you and you alone. So all the focus during the lessons (both ground and flight) are solely on you. Also, these instructors focus on teaching IFR so you could call them specialists. Each has logbooks on logbooks of hours and are there to be teaching, not building time to jump to the next level of employment.

If you do not have your own aircraft, nor reasonable access to one, they have a network of FBO's that they can use to try and find an aircraft reasonably close to you.

So both of these solve the issues that @OverTQ shared and you're uncertain of.

To get more information about what PIC has to offer, call them at 1-800-I Fly IFR (800) 435-9437 and talk to Donn H.

 

[Skyrys62]

As James and Mike mention, be careful that you do actually learn and get some experience.
This video shows how busy one can get in single pilot IMC

 

[deftone]

One aspect about PIC, they send an instructor that is dedicated to you and you alone. So all the focus during the lessons (both ground and flight) are solely on you. Also, these instructors focus on teaching IFR so you could call them specialists. Each has logbooks on logbooks of hours and are there to be teaching, not building time to jump to the next level of employment.

If you do not have your own aircraft, nor reasonable access to one, they have a network of FBO's that they can use to try and find an aircraft reasonably close to you.

So both of these solve the issues that @OverTQ shared and you're uncertain of.

To get more information about what PIC has to offer, call them at 1-800-I Fly IFR (800) 435-9437 and talk to Donn H.

It seems like PIC comes highly reviewed across every review I have seen. I will give them a call next week and see if we can make something work. I was hesitant to contact them without my own aircraft but perhaps than have some contacts down here.

 

[AggieMike88]

Additional items about PIC

1. They have a proven program approach that includes ground school, flying, simulator use.
2. On sim days, the routine might be ground school discussing the maneuvers of the day, sim use to practice what was discussed, then flying it for real and working to achieve ACS standards.
3. They are not afraid of teaching in IMC conditions. As long as you can safely and legally land back at home, opportunities to get some actual time will be taken advantage of.
4. You will be shown all sorts of valuable real world techniques for doing both big and small things that are often not part of other curriculums. An example is how to do get and “activate” an IFR clearance at non-towered airports.
5. The instructors not only teach “to the book”, but do all that is possible to ingrain proper real world habits that will make you a safer flyer.

My experience with PIC was very good. And it was with Ron Levy (many here know of him). I had signed for 10 days, and “intensive learning” barely scratches how to describe my experience. Each day was very busy and the time evaporated faster than anticipated.

My suggestion to schedule for 12 or 14 days comes from us running out of time to achieve a 100% finish. We had a bad weather day at the end that kept us from completing a required item, and in the last days I had “brain lock up” where I wasn’t taking on the new info as fast as Ron was providing it. Hindsight says that if we had planned for a day off where we took a break or just went flying, I would’ve returned the following day ready for the final stretch.

Make sure employers, friends, and family know that you need to be somewhat incommunicado during this time. There is so much happening that reducing the distractions of regular life can be beneficial.

@deftone , being near Houston, consider making @Jay Honeck’s Amelia’s Landing at Port Aransas your base of operations. Jay gave us a more than fair deal on the room rates. And learning within the busy Class C airspace surrounding Corpus Christi was a good kick in the pants to for the radio comms.