Piper not supporting aircraft over 25 years old?

And what aircraft type was it that brought them back to profibility? What a CEO says is based on projections. What the company actually ends up doing is based on market response. Unless the govt steps in....
 
yikes JT, that does not sound good at all.

guess you'll just have to buy a 421...
 
bbchien said:
Time for piper owners to do what Commander owners did....
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It'll take a small group of strong leaders to pull it off. Commander did it, but is not yet building new planes. (it took FOREVER to get FAA approval to even sell parts....)

There are probably economies to be had if the two groups combined.

The problem is going to be obtaining non-owner financing. While there is oodles of private equity money, the GA segment is just too small to attract investors that would rather buy Chrysler.
 
wsuffa said:
There are probably economies to be had if the two groups combined.
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Or three. Maybe se should get Tiger Aircraft (aka Grumman), Piper and Commander under the same ownership. Thank goodness the Grummans have Fletchair for parts or we'd be in the same boat, errr, I mean hangar.
 
Anybody want to buy my 24.5 year old Saratoga? :mad:


James Dean
 
the only logical answer is to fly your saratoga to vero beach and buy every toga part you can fit into it for the next 6 months
 
This is bad, bad news.

The worst part is refusing to license the parts to other companies.

Bad.
 
wsuffa said:
It'll take a small group of strong leaders to pull it off. Commander did it, but is not yet building new planes. (it took FOREVER to get FAA approval to even sell parts....)

There are probably economies to be had if the two groups combined.

The problem is going to be obtaining non-owner financing. While there is oodles of private equity money, the GA segment is just too small to attract investors that would rather buy Chrysler.
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Yeah, but you guys DID IT....!
 
SkyHog said:
This is bad, bad news.

The worst part is refusing to license the parts to other companies.

Bad.
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Good news to me if I owned a Cherokee. Not available from the factory, means I don't need to buy from the factory which means I can support the parts myself. Reality is, there aren't that many complex or unreproducable parts on a Cherokee. With just moderate skills, you can make your own for less than you buy them from Piper for right now. Like $250 for a $7 microswitch, or $1500 for a $15 piece of sheetmetal.... Plus, there's butt loads of parts in the salvage yards.
 
well that works fine for YOU Henning, but for the rest of us we gotta take it to our local A&P and hes got to build the part. then when his part breaks he's liable. and this is why shops won't want to touch the stuff.
 
tonycondon said:
well that works fine for YOU Henning, but for the rest of us we gotta take it to our local A&P and hes got to build the part. then when his part breaks he's liable. and this is why shops won't want to touch the stuff.
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NO NO NO! Your A&P can't make the part, you have to make the part and bring it to your A&P. Lot's of A&Ps will work with you on this, and it's totally legal for you to produce parts for your aircraft.
 
yea well who's signing it off??
and you gotta think what the heirs are going to think, not what you think. all they will see is that Henning, A&P #1234567 signed this part off for installation, so they will go after you, cause the pilot who made the part is dead.
 
tonycondon said:
yea well who's signing it off??
and you gotta think what the heirs are going to think, not what you think. all they will see is that Henning, A&P #1234567 signed this part off for installation, so they will go after you, cause the pilot who made the part is dead.
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The A&P is just signing off the installation: " Installed owner produced *part* in accordance with FAR 21.303..." He doesn't hold any greater liability for that part as he does for a factory or PMA produced part. It's really a non issue. If an A&P doesn't understand that, he's not smart enough to be my A&P. As far as it goies, I've produced a lot of parts for aircraft I've owned and never had an A&P have a problem with it. The only ones I've ever had object were ones who wanted to make a profit selling me parts.
 
Piper

Pulling this from Maintenance Bay...

James_Dean said:
Well, I just hope this is not true. I'm feeling a little sick right now. If true, it appears that Piper has just thrown most Cherokee owners under the bus.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec....read/thread/7be0f4f97a2af7a2/da4533ddb83259c5
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Reading the linked post (by none other than Jay Honeck of the Alexis Park Inn), I'm more sure than ever that Piper is dead, dead, dead... Their piston airplanes are selling like crap, and I think that the PiperJet is too little, too late. The attitude that the CEO has is very disturbing as well - Very much "me-too" in the VLJ segment but pretty much ignoring the piston singles (even though he was talking to an audience of piston single drivers. Duh.)

For example, last year Piper shipped 53 4-place piston singles (Warrior, Archer, Arrow) compared to Cessna's 736, Diamond's 220... Hell, even Mooney sold 75. Piper shipped only 37 twins (Seneca + Seminole) to Diamond's 153 (and I'm pretty sure that 153 was only for a partial year). Their best-selling model, the Meridian turboprop single, shipped 49 planes compared to 90 PC12's, 67 Caravans, and 42 TBM 850's (also a partial year I think).

They're making money for now, but they aren't really leading any market segment except fixed-gear 6-place singles (21 airplanes shipped), and nobody else even makes those.

I bet that within 10 years Piper will either be dead, or selling nothing but jets. :(
 
Re: Piper

There was a time when everyone was making 2-seaters for a big boom that never came. The VLJs coud wind up being in the same leaky boat, in which case Piper will be a thing of the past.
 
Lotsa crashed Cherokees. Hopefully it won't come to that for awhile. When it does I guess I'll have to learn sheetmetal work. Either that, or buy a Cessna.
 
Re: Piper

Yep! There was quite the discussion on this over at the CPA board. However, what a CEO says verses what a CEO does can be vastly different. Maybe the speech was poorly put togther or just no preparation I can't say, wasn't there to get the overall tone. I wouldn't read too much into the speech. Certainly GA is having a tough time but I not ready to call it quits. Aviation has always been expensive, will always be expensive.

Gary
 
We'll just go to the FAA! THEY WON'T STAND FOR IT!

Why if this happens thousands and thousands of GA planes won't be able to fly.



Oh, wait.
 
steingar said:
Lotsa crashed Cherokees. Hopefully it won't come to that for awhile. When it does I guess I'll have to learn sheetmetal work. Either that, or buy a Cessna.
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Why not a Beech? Sheetmetal work is easy though.
 
steingar said:
Lotsa crashed Cherokees. Hopefully it won't come to that for awhile. When it does I guess I'll have to learn sheetmetal work. Either that, or buy a Cessna.
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There's the parts supply for the rest of us. :rolleyes:
 
Henning said:
The A&P is just signing off the installation: " Installed owner produced *part* in accordance with FAR 21.303..." He doesn't hold any greater liability for that part as he does for a factory or PMA produced part. It's really a non issue. If an A&P doesn't understand that, he's not smart enough to be my A&P. As far as it goies, I've produced a lot of parts for aircraft I've owned and never had an A&P have a problem with it. The only ones I've ever had object were ones who wanted to make a profit selling me parts.
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Who determins the airworthiness of any part, and upon what is this decision made.
 
Were the airlines not in such bad financial shape, I wouldn't put it past one of them to buy the company and put it out of its misery. And then pursue anyone who tried to make replacement parts....
 
wsuffa said:
On what basis?

There was no promise of endless support, companies can stop making products whenver they want.
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On the same basis that you have every other ridiculous lawsuit, an ambitious lawyer trying to make a name for himself. Someone will put it together. I don't care if Piper doesn't continue making parts, but release the spces so I can have someone else make em.
 
Oooff. Bye bye Piper. As if we didn't see it coming for the last few years. Bad management begets bankruptcy. They have a nice product lineup for, say, 1976.

Glad I went with a newish Cessna.
 
It will take a looooooooooooooooong time for something like this to have a measurable impact. As noted, there are lots of Pipers out there rotting on ramps just dying to be picked clean of salvageable parts. I would predict, however, that the depreciation curve on newer Pipers will look more like a \ than a curve.
 
Well if i cant get parts for my Warrior, I'll just have to quit flying, cause i cant afford to buy something else. I dont like highwing planes,and only other planes i've flown was a Grumman, and a Mooney (dont want retracts)
So if this is whats going to happen My Days of Avaiting are numbered.
Well we shall see what happens
Dave G.
 
Not to worry folks...
I owned a Grumman AA1B that hadn't been in production since 1977.
Still parts out there and if not you did as Henning suggests and find or make a part. (Only part 91 of course!)
And there were far more Piper singles made than Grummans...
Of course; a few of you Piper owners could hunt this Rat-Bag down and voice you're displeasure with his CEO-ship.

Chris
 
Flyfishingpilot said:
If Piper does indeed follow through with the announcement, I assume there will be a considerable glut of 25+yo Piper on the market soon enough...
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I hope So, I am shopping for a nice Six 300 or Lance. Hopefully many people will start dumping them and I can snatch up one of these non supported birds birds.

I agree with Henning an this. I have owned 2 airplanes and done a lot of work on both and have not bought a part from the manufaturer yet.
All salvage or make the parts.
 
Flyfishingpilot said:
If Piper does indeed follow through with the announcement, I assume there will be a considerable glut of 25+yo Piper on the market soon enough...
Click to expand...


I hope So, I am shopping for a nice Six 300 or Lance. Hopefully many people will start dumping them and I can snatch up one of these non supported birds birds.

I agree with Henning an this. I have owned 2 airplanes and done a lot of work on both and have not bought a part from the manufacturor yet.
All salvage or make the parts.
 
Flyfishingpilot said:
How does the insurance industry react to such news? Will it raise it's premium for those aircraft ?
Will the banking industry also shy away from extending credit for such planes?
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If you ask around, you will likely find some insurance carriers that already shy away from or raise prices on older aircraft.
 
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