Piper Comanche Training Opportunity

[Flavius Renatus]

Afternoon Everyone,

I am not sure if this is the correct place to put this, but the Comanche Pilot Proficiency Program is planning on having a 2-day (September 26-27, 2015) training session at Spirit of St. Louis Airport (KSUS - Chesterfield, MO).

I am also not sure if you must be a member of the ICS or not, that is something that will need to check into.

As a new Comanche owner, I signed up for the full course but it looks like only 3 people have signed up so far and they need 3 more folks to make it work from a money standpoint.

I would sure hate for this not to work out, it seems like they have not done one of these in the Midwest for a very long time.

If anyone in the area is interested in attending the Full course is $650.00 ($50 discount for a registration by 3 September). They also have a Ground School only program that is $350 ($25 discount for registration before 3 September)

These training courses provide Comanche specific training to help you become a safer, more proficient Comanche pilot by reviewing:

• Flight systems including maintenance and preflight items,
• Federal Aviation Regulations
• Performance calculations
• Weight & Balance procedures
• Aircraft Limitations
• Emergency and abnormal procedures
• Participate in a hands-on demonstration of the Emergency Landing Gear Extension system and procedure using CPPP’s ‘Landing Gear Simulator.
• Spend up to 3 hours with your personal CPPP Certified Flight Instructor receiving one-on-one instruction.
• At the end of the Program you will receive your Flight Review (BFR) providing all qualifications are met, as well as a CPPP graduation certificate satisfying the recurrent flight training requirements of most insurance companies.

The Full Course counts as a BFR which I think is a real plus.

For lodging, there is a block of rooms reserved at the Hampton Inn & Suites in Chesterfield for $93.00/night which includes Breakfast.

Transportation to and from the Hotel by Shuttle Bus is also available.

As a plus, Cliff Wilewski from Heritage Aero will be there, so we should get some really good information on Care and Feeding.

If anyone is interested, I have attached a PDF with all the information.

Hope to see some folks there.

Thanks

Mike

 

[EdFred]

Cliff is a good guy and you'll get some good info from him, but the rest of it seems like a waste of money otherwise.

Maybe not a waste, but you're overpaying for what you could get from someone who is a CFI and has a Comanche (and no, I'm not trying to sell myself - even though I am one).

 

[Flavius Renatus]

Cliff is a good guy and you'll get some good info from him, but the rest of it seems like a waste of money otherwise.

Maybe not a waste, but you're overpaying for what you could get from someone who is a CFI and has a Comanche (and no, I'm not trying to sell myself - even though I am one).

Hi EdFred,

While I agree that you will get the flying and some of the ground school information from a Comanche CFI, finding one is a little more difficult. Around me, they are not exactly jumping out of the woodwork.

With that aside, I think this class gets a lot more involved then what a CFI would go over, for example, they put a plane up on Jacks and we get to see an emergency gear extension. I looked over the outline of what's offered and paying a CFI for 2 days (figure 12 hrs give or take) would run approx. $540. Now you might be able to do it faster if it was just you and the CFI but considering the experts that they bring in, I think it is kind of a bargain.

Yes I have the added expense of a Hotel Room, Lunch, and Dinner but since I do not have an experianced Comanche CFI near me I would have to pay for that anyway.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[EdFred]

If you think it's a good deal, go for it, because that's all that really matters. I've never been a large group instruction kind of guy. Much easier to 'interrupt' one on one. And I think the FARs/W&B/Performance could be cut out of it, because there's nothing Comanche specific in the FARs and the other are just generic calculations that are the same regardless of the plane

You'll find with the Comanche doing the B part of the W&B will be pretty much unnecessary. I went through the extremes on it when I first got mine, and I think the only way I could be out of balance was 200lbs in the baggage area, 400 or 500lbs in the back seat, just me in the front seat, and 10 gallons of fuel. Any more fuel than that, and I was back in the envelope. But that's from memory 6 plus years ago. But I know I'm never going to be close to that situation, so I don't bother with the B anymore.

 

[JoseCuervo]

What makes a Commanche unique vs other similar planes from Piper, Cessna, or Beech?

 

[EdFred]

What makes a Commanche unique vs other similar planes from Piper, Cessna, or Beech?

About the only big thing is your speed on final/landing. It's like a Mooney in that regard - which isn't surprising since they have pretty much the same wing. You come in 5kts fast you float a looooooooong way. And there is no "mushing" it in, when the wing is done flying, that's it, elevator straight down. (as in an elevator in a building, not on the tail ) So your approach speed is +/-1kt.

The emergency gear extension is a bit different. Not difficult by any means but just different.

 

[mkosmo]

The emergency gear extension is a bit different. Not difficult by any means but just different.

What's different about it? You have a guy not familiar with Comanches curious.

 

[Flavius Renatus]

What's different about it? You have a guy not familiar with Comanches curious.

I think the main difference is that it is a multi step process requiring you to slow down, turn the landing gear off, open an access door in the floor, disengage the transmission, extend a rod that you will then use to swing the gear down to lock it.

I think a lot off time will be spent on the process a pilot should go through to trouble shoot the gear problem, before resorting to the emergency procedure.

Since the gear is driven by en electric motor, there are a lot of things to check (circuit breakers, switches, etc.) and you might be able to get the gear down a different way.

I am not 100% sure that is why I want to take the training.

Mike

 

[EdFred]

I think the main difference is that it is a multi step process requiring you to slow down, turn the landing gear off, open an access door in the floor, disengage the transmission, extend a rod that you will then use to swing the gear down to lock it.

I think a lot off time will be spent on the process a pilot should go through to trouble shoot the gear problem, before resorting to the emergency procedure.

Since the gear is driven by en electric motor, there are a lot of things to check (circuit breakers, switches, etc.) and you might be able to get the gear down a different way.

I am not 100% sure that is why I want to take the training.

Mike

Or make sure you haven't flipped your NAV lights on during the day and dimmed the gear light so it looks off.

That hasn't happened to me yet.

I actually like the gear system on the Comanche. There's no hydraulic system to worry about, you don't have to turn a crank a million times, etc...

 

[Kristin]

Hi EdFred,

While I agree that you will get the flying and some of the ground school information from a Comanche CFI, finding one is a little more difficult. Around me, they are not exactly jumping out of the woodwork.

With that aside, I think this class gets a lot more involved then what a CFI would go over, for example, they put a plane up on Jacks and we get to see an emergency gear extension. I looked over the outline of what's offered and paying a CFI for 2 days (figure 12 hrs give or take) would run approx. $540. Now you might be able to do it faster if it was just you and the CFI but considering the experts that they bring in, I think it is kind of a bargain.

Yes I have the added expense of a Hotel Room, Lunch, and Dinner but since I do not have an experianced Comanche CFI near me I would have to pay for that anyway.

Just my 2 cents.

I helped teach one of the early CPPP courses when Zach Grant was teaching it. Zach had an excellent ground program and had enough knowledge that there was a lot of give and take in the classroom. The flight part is really dependent on who you fly with. Some thought that the flight was great, and others not so impressed. There is a limit to what you can do in two hours of flight training, so it is really not a substitute for new Comanche pilots, though the ground portion is a good adjunct if you have a good CFI.

 

[Flavius Renatus]

Well I have not heard that they are going to cancel yet. So I am hoping it is still a go.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

One nice thing about the gear system is you have a foolproof visual indicator on the floor as to gear position. Make a mark under the access panel on the floor where the gear is own and locked. If the light fails, but the handle linkage matches the mark, you've got gear.

Other thing that seems to get new Comanche pilot is the fuel system. If you have 90 gals it's in four tanks, four valve positions. On long x/C's, I make a little note as to how long on which tank. Big hand points right, one of the right tanks. Big hand points left, one of the left tanks.