Piper cherokee W&B front seat ARM

[TheGolfPilot]

So a post on a Facebook forum brought up a Cherokee 140's "problem" that the weight is too far forward when two large people are up front.
This was brought up saying that the arm changes based upon seat position. With seats all the way back, as would be the case with larger people, the problem is somewhat solved.
Is there somewhere to find that variable ARM location with other Cherokees? Moving an ARM back 5 inches makes a huge difference on these things and it was totally left out of the poh/operating manuals.

 

[CC268]

So a post on a Facebook forum brought up a Cherokee 140's "problem" that the weight is too far forward when two large people are up front.
This was brought up saying that the arm changes based upon seat position. With seats all the way back, as would be the case with larger people, the problem is somewhat solved.
Is there somewhere to find that variable ARM location with other Cherokees? Moving an ARM back 5 inches makes a huge difference on these things and it was totally left out of the poh/operating manuals.

Hmm...very interesting. I have a Cherokee 140.

One thing I have noticed with mine is that I can't get mine in the Utility category unless I remove both back seats and carry very little fuel (this is with two people up front). I was going to do my Commercial in my airplane, which requires me to be in the Utility category for many of the Commercial manuevers. Not sure I can though since I have so much difficulty getting into the Utility category.

I haven't had much issue with mine being too far forward. I can do full fuel (50 gallons), myself (190lbs) and my brother (220lbs) and still be good (although I am literally on the very front limit of the CG).

One reason this might be is that my panel was completely redone in 2010. We shed a ton of weight and got rid of the rats nest of wires that was once there (this was all done before we owned the airplane). Heck, when we went to the G5 HSI, we shed like 8 lbs? I think.

 

[paflyer]

I was going to do my Commercial in my airplane, which requires me to be in the Utility category for many of the Commercial manuevers.

Explain.

 

[paflyer]

So a post on a Facebook forum brought up a Cherokee 140's "problem" that the weight is too far forward when two large people are up front.
This was brought up saying that the arm changes based upon seat position. With seats all the way back, as would be the case with larger people, the problem is somewhat solved.
Is there somewhere to find that variable ARM location with other Cherokees? Moving an ARM back 5 inches makes a huge difference on these things and it was totally left out of the poh/operating manuals.

Facebook is the Debil!

 

[luvflyin]

So a post on a Facebook forum brought up a Cherokee 140's "problem" that the weight is too far forward when two large people are up front.
This was brought up saying that the arm changes based upon seat position. With seats all the way back, as would be the case with larger people, the problem is somewhat solved.
Is there somewhere to find that variable ARM location with other Cherokees? Moving an ARM back 5 inches makes a huge difference on these things and it was totally left out of the poh/operating manuals.

Most if not all Cessna POH's I've seen have the 'range' of the Arm for the seats. I'm surprised Piper doesn't.

 

[tawood]

Hmm...very interesting. I have a Cherokee 140.

One thing I have noticed with mine is that I can't get mine in the Utility category unless I remove both back seats and carry very little fuel (this is with two people up front). I was going to do my Commercial in my airplane, which requires me to be in the Utility category for many of the Commercial manuevers. Not sure I can though since I have so much difficulty getting into the Utility category.

I haven't had much issue with mine being too far forward. I can do full fuel (50 gallons), myself (190lbs) and my brother (220lbs) and still be good (although I am literally on the very front limit of the CG).

One reason this might be is that my panel was completely redone in 2010. We shed a ton of weight and got rid of the rats nest of wires that was once there (this was all done before we owned the airplane). Heck, when we went to the G5 HSI, we shed like 8 lbs? I think.

Mine is the same way. One thing that has helped keep mine in the utility category is to remove the wheel pants on the rear tires...its only like 9 lbs, but they are farther back, so it really helps. With my rear wheel pants removed, I can put 400 lbs in the front seats, with 36 gallons in the tanks, and still be in utility (but at the edge).
I should also note that having it re-weighed corrected some of the "out of CG" as well, as my planes W&B calculations through the years had small compounding errors.

 

[kgruber]

Not that tough!!!!

 

[Hang 4]

Google the Type Certificate Data Sheet. TCDS. It's on the FAA website somewhere and it has the station and arm for each model by serial number.

 

[CC268]

Explain.

AFM requires the aircraft to be in the Utility Category for Lazy Eights, Chandelles, and another maneuver I can’t think of (and of course for spins)

 

[paflyer]

AFM requires the aircraft to be in the Utility Category for Lazy Eights, Chandelles, and another maneuver I can’t think of (and of course for spins)

You're doing turns >60 deg bank and spinning for a commercial cert? News to me.

 

[CC268]

You're doing turns >60 deg bank and spinning for a commercial cert? News to me.

Did they remove lazy eights, chandelles, etc from the commercial maneuvers? Wasn’t implying you do spins I’m just saying it is one of the maneuvers listed in the AFM under Utility.

I’m just following what my AFM says

 

[paflyer]

Did they remove lazy eights, chandelles, etc from the commercial maneuvers? Wasn’t implying you do spins I’m just saying it is one of the maneuvers listed in the AFM under Utility.

I’m just following what my AFM says

I'm going to be doing my Commercial shortly as well, but I don't believe any of those maneuvers involve banking more than 60 deg, so Utility Category shouldn't come into play.

 

[CC268]

I'm going to be doing my Commercial shortly as well, but I don't believe any of those maneuvers involve banking more than 60 deg, so Utility Category shouldn't come into play.

Well hell if that’s the case then that’s good news. I guess I need to do some more research. I just saw the AFM and it specifically listed those maneuvers and stated they had to be done in the Utility category but I will read up on it more

 

[kgruber]

Many decades ago those maneuvers were done to greater extreme. The FAA made them more docile.

 

[paflyer]

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs/media/commercial_airplane_acs.pdf

 

[mizer2167]

Piper Cherokee has bulletin vb-261 that gives you the arm, depending on hole position of the seat. Yes, you can move the arm around based on seat position.