Pilots-N-Paws: Apparently there's a dog/cat black hole in NYC

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
From looking at the transport map, it makes me wonder if there is a shortage of pets in New York City and surrounding states.

http://pilotsnpaws.org/maps/maps_trips.php

Funny how there are very few southbound requests.

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None the less, I've been trying to work in a flight or two a month for the different rescue organizations. It's a great reason to commit some aviation!! :yes:
 
Most of the e-mails I get are for some rediculous route from California to the east coast. Sorry, but no thanks. I don't want to hassle with trying to work out those logistics. Surely there has to be some animal closer to home. I have visions of some house-bound animal hoarder shopping pet rescue web sites falling in love with some random picture they see.
 
Long distance pure bred, I can understand. But like you, 1000+ mile mutts and mixed breeeds I don't get.

Some postings are noise of individuals trying to get a free ride for Fido and Kitty. But I usually like try to work with the legit rescues if possible.

A really good local one is Texas Sporting Breed Rescue (www.retrieveafriend.org).
 
Lot of large snake owners in that area picking up unwanted puppies and kittens.:lol:
 
AggieMike88 said:
From looking at the transport map, it makes me wonder if there is a shortage of pets in New York City and surrounding states.

http://pilotsnpaws.org/maps/maps_trips.php

Funny how there are very few southbound requests.

----------------------------------------------------

None the less, I've been trying to work in a flight or two a month for the different rescue organizations. It's a great reason to commit some aviation!! :yes:
Click to expand...

Map is not working for me, but...

Mostly the dogs are going from rural to urban areas...thus the seeming shortage in metro NYC. In rural areas, you're more likely to find irresponsible breeders, overcrowded shelters, and relatively small demand for non-purebred dogs. The rescue groups go into high kill shelters, pull out the most adoptable dogs, and work through their network to find fosters and permanent homes.

People in urban areas are more likely to foster shelter dogs, and more likely to adopt rescues.

Dogs are truly a human "invention"; we've bred them for hundreds of years to be our pets and helpers. I think we owe it to them to find decent homes, rather than just discarding the "seconds" like a mistake on the factory production floor.

I've moved hundreds of dogs, nearly all from the carolinas up to DC, Philly, and NY areas. I've only moved one dog southbound (it was a mis-fit with the new family, and the foster family in NC agreed to take him back) and that was done on my way to pick up more dogs.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Funny how there are very few southbound requests.
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Southern animal shelters, like southern prisons, seem to be "kill shelters" more than northern ones.

I try to do a PnP trip about once a month. I've transported 8 dogs this year. I'd do angel flights...but I just can't bring myself to do so...dogs are a lot less likely to sue should something happen.
 
Karen and I were volunteers for an organization called Second Chance.

It is now defunct, but we've done several transports in a Dodge RAM van with up to 20 dogs and puppies, from N GA to NJ, where they all have either adoptive or foster homes lined up.

We now do them on occasion for a variety of local rescue groups.

The spay and neuter laws are strict enough up there that there are just not a lot of plain dogs and puppies to adopt. They can basically take as many as we can transport, since pet overpopulation and neglect is kind of rampant in the N Ga, W NC, SE TM mountains.

Here's a video, not even up to date, of some of our transported dogs and other success stories:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-z7gw8q3oE
 
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Having flown about 2,000 homeless pets, I've never flown a trip with dogs heading south.

Basically what happens is that in the southern part of the country, the culture does not have spaying and neutering as something that's very common. People don't spay and neuter, dogs (and cats) run rampant and reproduce. Cats are overpopulated pretty much everywhere, so there's less of a need to transport them. The south is also warmer, which I think helps the overpulation issue further.

In the northeast, spaying and neutering is what you do. We never had a dog growing up, but I knew that if you got one, you spayed or neutered it. It was just what you did, and the vast majority of people understood that and followed it.

End result: fewer healthy, adoptable pets in the northeast. Many in the south. Solution: transport.

The California to New York trend is another interesting one. I flew 52 Chihuahuas from LA to NYC once in the Aztec. It was in one day, and it was a long day. Southern California seems to have a lot of overpopulation as well. Part of it was the "Legally Blonde" effect. Just like after 101 Dalmations people ran out and wanted one, after Reese Witherspoon walked around with a purse dog, everyone wanted one. Add in some of the other issues with culture and warmth. California seems to advertise their homeless pets well. I get requests for them all the time, but we haven't done one in almost 4 years.

On Saturday I'll be flying another 25 or so from Houston to New Hampshire.
 
52 chihuahuas in one airplane, how did you hear ATC?:D
 
It's funny you should mention Chihuahuas in California. Last time I was in San Francisco my cousin, who fosters dogs and cats, invited me to a get-together at the East Bay SPCA. They presented a program about the things they do plus they were opening a new building which we got to tour. They were saying that they had a whole bunch of little Chihuahua mixes and how more people wanted bigger dogs. They found out that there was an overabundance of some bigger dogs in Hawaii so they were asking for volunteers who might be vacationing in Hawaii to accompany a dog back. Alaska Airlines was waiving the fee that they charge for a dog in baggage. These dogs were too big to travel in the cabin. I know people have qualms about dogs in baggage but I'm sure the survival rate is better than the zero it would be if they were euthanized.

Not too long after that Murphey invited me to go along on a Pilots N Paws trip to Kansas. That dog was coming from Texas to Colorado. It was a beautiful and friendly dog but one of the first things I noticed was that he was not neutered. I thought that was odd in this day and age but I guess I shouldn't have.
 
Everskyward said:
It's funny you should mention Chihuahuas in California. Last time I was in San Francisco my cousin, who fosters dogs and cats, invited me to a get-together at the East Bay SPCA. They presented a program about the things they do plus they were opening a new building which we got to tour. They were saying that they had a whole bunch of little Chihuahua mixes and how more people wanted bigger dogs. They found out that there was an overabundance of some bigger dogs in Hawaii so they were asking for volunteers who might be vacationing in Hawaii to accompany a dog back. Alaska Airlines was waiving the fee that they charge for a dog in baggage. These dogs were too big to travel in the cabin. I know people have qualms about dogs in baggage but I'm sure the survival rate is better than the zero it would be if they were euthanized.

Not too long after that Murphey invited me to go along on a Pilots N Paws trip to Kansas. That dog was coming from Texas to Colorado. It was a beautiful and friendly dog but one of the first things I noticed was that he was not neutered. I thought that was odd in this day and age but I guess I shouldn't have.
Click to expand...

Update in that trip....after a couple days to relax, the dog was neutered and now happy living in NW Colorado in a home with a big yard.
 
Brad Z said:
...SNIP...
I've moved hundreds of dogs, nearly all from the carolinas up to DC, Philly, and NY areas. I've only moved one dog southbound (it was a mis-fit with the new family, and the foster family in NC agreed to take him back) and that was done on my way to pick up more dogs.
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I don't understand a mis-fit or a return on an adopted dog. I have 3 rescues and would not ever consider giving them back. I was hooked the minute I saw them. One came from a shelter in Tennesee. The other two were from "friends" who didn't want them any more.
I just don't get people. The more I know people, the more I love my "kids".
 
It is also my understanding that the south has more high kill shelters due to the over population and thus rescue is to the north. I do wonder whether investing in a regional spay and neuter program might me more cost effective and save a lot of avgas.

Ted will also tell you that some of the west coast to east coast trips are someone who lives in Boston seeing a dig from Santa Barbara on an adoption site who just needs to have THAT dog and save it from impending death.
 
murphey said:
Update in that trip....after a couple days to relax, the dog was neutered and now happy living in NW Colorado in a home with a big yard.
Click to expand...
"Ouch!" in a high falsetto voice.
.
But really, unless you want a house full of babies, it really is the best thing for the pets. There are just too many meeting a fate worse than death.
 
ClimbnSink said:
52 chihuahuas in one airplane, how did you hear ATC?:D
Click to expand...

Pretty easily. They were quiet once we got off the ground. Only dog that was a real problem was a dalmation.

Mari, it's not uncommon for dogs to travel not neutered, and then get neutered at the end destination. Usually I travel with spayed/neutered animals.

If everyone spayed and neutered, the problem would go away.
 
PPC1052 said:
Most of the e-mails I get are for some rediculous route from California to the east coast. Sorry, but no thanks. I don't want to hassle with trying to work out those logistics. Surely there has to be some animal closer to home. I have visions of some house-bound animal hoarder shopping pet rescue web sites falling in love with some random picture they see.
Click to expand...

Oh, please. You are not expected to be a one-plane transport across the country... the volunteer network organizes multiple legs with multiple pilots. So you could fly from LA to Reno, say, then another pilot takes the rescues from there. You can choose how long a leg you're willing to fly.

All the adopters are vetted thoroughly.

It's a GREAT organization, but it if you're that cynical about it, I wouldn't expect you to participate. It's a gift we give to animals.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Mari, it's not uncommon for dogs to travel not neutered, and then get neutered at the end destination. Usually I travel with spayed/neutered animals.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I guess if the shelter in Texas was going to euthanize him they wouldn't have bothered neutering him first...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Pretty easily. They were quiet once we got off the ground. Only dog that was a real problem was a dalmation.

Mari, it's not uncommon for dogs to travel not neutered, and then get neutered at the end destination. Usually I travel with spayed/neutered animals.

If everyone spayed and neutered, the problem would go away.
Click to expand...

If everyone spayed an neutered, all the animals would go away...;)
 
FlyGirlKHWO said:
Oh, please. You are not expected to be a one-plane transport across the country... the volunteer network organizes multiple legs with multiple pilots. So you could fly from LA to Reno, say, then another pilot takes the rescues from there. You can choose how long a leg you're willing to fly.
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I think the key word there was "RIDICULOUS route". As in, the legs that should pass right by him go 200 nm out of the way to avoid his area. That can be a problem depending on where you are and how far you're willing to fly. I've been volunteering for PnP for almost 3 years but I've only flown 2 missions so far because on most of the missions where I've been contacted, the route has been somewhere it would make no sense for me to do it. Such as, GA to WI. In order for me to take the mission, I'd have to get someone to bring the dog way out of the way or else pick her up in IL. The coast-to-coast missions always pass 200 nm south of me or else are usually taken by the time I hear of them. The most recent mission that I took was nearly 2 years ago, when a German shorthair needed a ride from KIKW to somewhere in NJ. I took the pooch to KELM in upstate NY and someone else took her the rest of the way.

I've tried to volunteer for 2 or 3 since then, but they were either canceled or someone else closer to the route landed the gig.
 
flyingron said:
Especially irresponsible animal owners :)
Click to expand...

I've long stated that many people should get spayed or neutered! :yes:

FlyGirlKHWO said:
Oh, please. You are not expected to be a one-plane transport across the country... the volunteer network organizes multiple legs with multiple pilots. So you could fly from LA to Reno, say, then another pilot takes the rescues from there. You can choose how long a leg you're willing to fly.

All the adopters are vetted thoroughly.

It's a GREAT organization, but it if you're that cynical about it, I wouldn't expect you to participate. It's a gift we give to animals.
Click to expand...

Well, the issue isn't necessarily the distance (says the guy flying 25 from Houston to NH on Saturday in a 310), but it can be the logistics. Before I started Cloud Nine, I was an ARF pilot. I loved the trips, but flying legs I found to be a pain. Inevitably, a pilot canceled (weather, don't feel like it, wimped out, etc.) and I found myself flying longer legs or having a last minute reschedule. I can't imagine a coast-to-coast with legs.

So, I did something about it and went to start my own non-profit. 4.5 years, 2000 pets, and a lot of hard work later, seems to have worked out pretty well. It is absolutely the wrong route for most people. :)
 
silver-eagle said:
I don't understand a mis-fit or a return on an adopted dog. I have 3 rescues and would not ever consider giving them back. I was hooked the minute I saw them. One came from a shelter in Tennesee. The other two were from "friends" who didn't want them any more.
I just don't get people. The more I know people, the more I love my "kids".
Click to expand...

I'm not sure the details. The adopters may not have had realistic expectations. In any case, the dog went back to the foster family and I suspect they became his permanent family.
 
FlyGirlKHWO said:
Oh, please. You are not expected to be a one-plane transport across the country...
Click to expand...


I never said they needed ME to fly accross the country. I specifically mentioned the logistics. I don't want to have to screw around with the timing of some 8 leg transport, of which I am just one. If weather is bad, or someone's plane is on the fritz, then it throws the whole plan out of kilter. After several failed transport attempts due to exactly those issues, I don't respond to those multileg fiascos. If it is more than two legs, its more hassle than its worth. And, as Azure says, many times the routes are rediculous, and would require me to fly almost as far to pick up the animal as I would in route.

I did have one where, after I was very specific about my limitations, the other pilot tried hard to strong arm me to substantially deviate from them. Needless to say, I didn't make that trip. I was extremely disapointed, too. That animal was rescued by a military vet in Afganistan, brought back to the states, and was coming home to be adopted by another military vet. I beat myself up about that one for a long time, but I am not going to get myself and the animal killed just to spare someone some dispointment.
 
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PPC1052 said:
I never said they needed ME to fly accross the country. I specifically mentioned the logistics. I don't want to have to screw around with the timing of some 8 leg transport, of which I am just one. If weather is bad, or someone's plane is on the fritz, then it throws the whole plan out of kilter. After several failed transport attempts due to exactly those issues, I don't respond to those multileg fiascos. If it is more than two legs, its more hassle than its worth. And, as Azure says, many times the routes are rediculous, and would require me to fly almost as far to pick up the animal as I would in route.

I did have one where, after I was very specific about my limitations, the other pilot tried hard to strong arm me to substantially deviate from them. Needless to say, I didn't make that trip. I was extremely disapointed, too. That animal was rescued by a military vet in Afganistan, brought back to the states, and was coming home to be adopted by another military vet. I beat myself up about that one for a long time, but I am not going to get myself and the animal killed just to spare someone some dispointment.
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I more or less came to the same conclusion. Not that I didn't meet some great people on the multi-leg trips, it was just that I didn't like the headaches.

It surprises me that someone tried to get you to deviate from your limits. While I'll fully admit that I thought some pilots were wimps for not wanting to land in a 10-15 kt crosswind, I never responded with pressure, nor would I. I typically responded with "Yeah, I guess I can do two legs."
 
My biggest issue is that so many trips are one dog, load me up, I can take it!

I haven't flown for PnP or ARF for a while now, been getting my rescue flights in picking greyhounds up from the track for queencity greyhounds.
 
Skylane81E said:
My biggest issue is that so many trips are one dog, load me up, I can take it!

I haven't flown for PnP or ARF for a while now, been getting my rescue flights in picking greyhounds up from the track for queencity greyhounds.
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That was the other reason I started Cloud Nine. Wanted to do more. However, the single dog trips still make the world of difference to that dog. I always felt that both were important.
 
I've got one coming up, we've been working the logistics between Kansas and Montana. Once the dog gets to Denver, it's actually cheaper and faster to commerical cargo to Montana. Less than 2 hours, non-stop for less than the fuel for one of the 2 legs between Denver and MT. As much as I'd love to fly one of the legs, it really doesn't make much sense.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
It surprises me that someone tried to get you to deviate from your limits.
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Me, too. I told the other pilot I was low total time, with a new to me airplane with crap avionics that I was still trying to figure out. Today, I would make the trip, but not back then.
 
Hey, that's my map! Brad - using safari? There is a known bug with the google maps API and how I used it I need to fix...

Ted hit it on the head.. laws and desires are different.. I also see alot of "lab puppies" that are really "lab+boxer+something puppies" - I've moved many of them, never had one sent back even from the real purebread rescues.

To the concern of "fly a dog from CA to NH" or such, I've started only doing multi-dog trips, or trips where I'm going nearby already. I like flying, but flying 2hrs each way to get one mutt wasn't the best use of anyones time, in general. Lately I have been able to mix work trips with a a fair amount of dogs (7 last trip?) and it works out for everyone...

To reply to the concern about getting emails for long trips - we're working on new email notifications and mapping options.. if anyone has any hint of PHP experience, I can set you up to help :) I'm busy with work and haven't gotten around to it lately..

-Mike
 
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