Pilots grounded by suits

Oasis Ranch “is intended to provide a secure meeting place and retreat for VIPs, dignitary (sic) and other notable individuals and/or the companies they represent,” the farm's lawsuit states.
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There it is! For lack of a better word, "Eco/farm tourism" is big business.

This reminds me of the scenic balloon flights made over wine grape vineyards in Napa, Sonoma, Paso Robles, and Santa Barbara. JCM Farms wants to protect their interests in developing their own aerial tours. Perhaps they do intend to host a VIP retreat but the real money is in the tours. This case is different than previous similar cases whereas JCM seems to have unlimited funds for legal fights.

It may be some time but it will come that a judge will declare JCM as a vexatious litigant. Unfortunately it may be moot by then since all the defendants will have be bled dry.

JCM naming pesticide spraying and other operations only obfuscates the real issue. I think a good defense would involve naming the county as a co-defendant. After all, great harm to the region could be proved if aerial application is blocked.
 
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Proof once again that you can have only as much justice as your can afford in our present-day legal system.
 
Makes you want to accidentally spray an olive farm with something really foul smelling. Not that I would condone such shenanigans if I happened to hear about them.

John
 
Richard said:
It may be some time but it will come that a judge will declare JCM as a vexatious litigant. Unfortunately it may be moot by then since all the defendants will have be bled dry.
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I wonder if the bled-dry out-of-business businesses could get anywhere with a class action suit against JCM? Seems like it would have been better if they could have pooled their resources somehow.
 
Why didn't they just lobby congress to put the no-fly zone into the national budget like Disney does?
 
John Baker said:
Makes you want to accidentally spray an olive farm with something really foul smelling. Not that I would condone such shenanigans if I happened to hear about them.
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But it sounds like he went after the local spray planes while he was at it.

Actually a massive bug infestation that requires a crop duster air strike would be wonderful about now.
Guess who he would have to call to do the work. :thumbsup:

Self centered little snot doesn't own the sky. Bring on the bugs!! Lot's of 'em. Too many of them.
 
Palmpilot said:
I wonder if the bled-dry out-of-business businesses could get anywhere with a class action suit against JCM? Seems like it would have been better if they could have pooled their resources somehow.
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Assume 10 defendants each have $100K for a legal defense. Their pool is only one million. It's not deep enough.

I have seen folks who inherited large sums come into a rural community and set themselves up like Lords and treat the established farming/ranching community as serfs. Eventually they fall. At first it could be loss of revenue because word of mouth begats a boycott. Then they scramble to invest in some other scheme. County planners block the project in perfectly legal ways. That's just for starters.

If JCM is looking to keep or attract outside investers, they best tone it down. I watched a guy winnow away a $600 million inheritence not because his various business schemes were not sound but because he ran rough shod over the community. One of his schemes was a Jet Center with a lock on the fuel services. He left the airport owner holding the bag. Guys like that used to be tarred and feathered and rode out on a rail. The detritus in their aftermath is the real sad story.
 
A protracted legal defense is not in the best interest of a private business. Even if they can afford it, such a business should really try to get a govt agency named as a co-defendant. Seeing how govt entities expect lawsuits they are in a better position to mount a defense. Then there is the 'scare issue'. Does a plantiff really want to battle the county or regional farm bureau? That would be curtains for even an apparent deep pocket like JCM.

To a grower, contracts are everything. What will they do when buyers decide to pass on JCM? It may not matter with JCM since they appear to be a hobby farm with an eye towards boutique selling/tours/paired tastings. Still, it's a no-win for JCM since catering to the tourists is all about word of mouth. They are well on the way of shooting themselves in the foot. Then you can schedule an aerial tour to view the ruins of what was JCM.
 
I just can't figure out how they were able to get a lawsuit heard against the balloon operators to begin with. What supposed duty were they failing to perform?
 
This is bad news for those pilots fighting aircraft noise issues. Land owners trying to stop overflights or acro over their land.
 
This is stupid, unless they can prove a nuisance or hazard. The balloons, at least, should be a welcome addition to the scenario they're selling... everybody likes balloons, right? :dunno:
 
This is such horse hockey! I suppose folks could find out where JCM sells Olives ie olive oil companies etc and use the power of the purse to send a message back.

What I don't understand is how the suit made it past what we call preliminary objections. State Court has no jurisdiction over airspace. Ooooo this is infuriating.
 
AdamZ said:
This is such horse hockey! I suppose folks could find out where JCM sells Olives ie olive oil companies etc and use the power of the purse to send a message back.
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That is how we do it.

What I don't understand is how the suit made it past what we call preliminary objections. State Court has no jurisdiction over airspace.
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What is to prevent JCM from bringing consecutive suits against the defendants? Their goal is to win a war of attrition.
 
Citizens, never fear, Lawyerman is here!

Perhaps a Lexus/Nexus search and an amicus by a rated pilot/attorney would yield results.
 
AdamZ said:
This is such horse hockey! I suppose folks could find out where JCM sells Olives ie olive oil companies etc and use the power of the purse to send a message back.
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Something is seriously not right about this place.

I can tell you one thing: They ain't selling olives. :no: Look at their facility in the picture and on Google Maps. Maybe it's 'cuz I spent a lot of time in the transportation business, but the first thing I noticed about the place is that they have no way to ship anything. No packaging facility (I'm not talking consumer packaging, I'm talking any sort of packaging at all as needed just to get olives off-site to another facility to be processed), no way to load anything onto a vehicle...

They've also quite effectively built a strong inner compound that you can't even see from the ground unless you're already trespassing, as it takes a couple of turns from the only entrance (at the northwest corner) to even see where the compound is... And guard dogs and "armed response" at the gate? You don't do that for freakin' olives.

Now, they're suing the hell out of anyone who might be able to see them from above, driving them out of business so there will be nobody to look down on them...

What are they hiding? :skeptical:

Also, they're a member of the Central Coast Wine Growers Association... who describes them as a "financial services company." :dunno:
 
Richard said:
A protracted legal defense is not in the best interest of a private business. Even if they can afford it, such a business should really try to get a govt agency named as a co-defendant. Seeing how govt entities expect lawsuits they are in a better position to mount a defense. Then there is the 'scare issue'. Does a plantiff really want to battle the county or regional farm bureau? That would be curtains for even an apparent deep pocket like JCM.
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Doubtful. They've sued the FAA and the USDA as well.
 
PDF of JCM's "complaint":

http://www.mydesert.com/assets/pdf/J1169712129.PDF

They're claiming people are "invading" their airspace and property without due compensation (see page 3 paragraph 18).

Maybe somebody should sneak in at night and snap a giant magenta chalk line on their property and just let the folks FlightP*** sue them for patent infringement.
 
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I love paragraph 30... "As a direct result of the unwanted and unlawful low flights Plaintiffs have suffered and [sic] real and significant loss in the value of their real property. The low flights have directly, immediately and substantially impacted the land so that the property is unusable for its intended purpose."

Well, Jesus Garcia has a point... I mean, olives can't grow with ultralights and balloons flying overhead, right?

P.S.--Oh, found it... it's always about money. "not less than $600,000" is how much he wants from the public entity defendants, plus another $1M on each of three other counts. See paragraphs just past # 61.
 
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Looking at the pictures of the place, it seems like total isolation is their goal. They have acres of trees surrounding a very high walled compound, with what appear to be guard towers at all four corners of the wall, then one on each side of the massive entry gate. Both sides of the wall have meticulously cleared land for a good distance before any building could be reached ( or gotten away from) by anyone on foot.

It almost appears to be a prison if you ignored the architectural embellishments.

Whatever it is, these people are looking for 100% privacy from the ground and the air.

The pictures on Google earth of the place look very little like the place in the photos shown in the article. From google earth there are no walls or towers, the place looks benign.

It might just be:

1. A secret government installation
2. A very paranoid rich mans home.
3. A whore house for the very wealthy.
4. An actual prison of some sort.
5. TSA headquarters.
6. Etc.?

John
 
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TangoWhiskey said:
They're claiming people are "invading" their airspace and property without due compensation (see page 3 paragraph 18).
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What part of National Airspace System do they not understand?

Unless they build a big huge box to contain the air above them and make it air tight so they can keep their air all to themselves so no one can steal, contaminate or trespass into it, the sky does not belong to them.
 
John Baker said:
Looking at the pictures of the place, it seems like total isolation is their goal. They have acres of trees surrounding a very high walled compound, with what appear to be guard towers at all four corners of the wall, then one on each side of the massive entry gate. Both sides of the wall have meticulously cleared land for a good distance before any building could be reached ( or gotten away from) by anyone on foot.

It almost appears to be a prison if you ignored the architectural embellishments.

Whatever it is, these people are looking for 100% privacy from the ground and the air.

The pictures on Google earth of the place look very little like the place in the photos shown in the article. From google earth there are no walls or towers, the place looks benign.

It might just be:

1. A secret government installation
2. A very paranoid rich mans home.
3. A whore house for the very wealthy.
4. An actual prison of some sort.
5. TSA headquarters.
6. Etc.?

John
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Marijuana farm?
Opium poppies?

I wonder if the DEA has looked at the place.

Is there a DEA hotline where one can report suspicious activity?
 
John Baker said:
Looking at the pictures of the place, it seems like total isolation is their goal. They have acres of trees surrounding a very high walled compound, with what appear to be guard towers at all four corners of the wall, then one on each side of the massive entry gate. Both sides of the wall have meticulously cleared land for a good distance before any building could be reached ( or gotten away from) by anyone on foot.

It almost appears to be a prison if you ignored the architectural embellishments.

Whatever it is, these people are looking for 100% privacy from the ground and the air.

The pictures on Google earth of the place look very little like the place in the photos shown in the article. From google earth there are no walls or towers, the place looks benign.

It might just be:

1. A secret government installation
2. A very paranoid rich mans home.
3. A whore house for the very wealthy.
4. An actual prison of some sort.
5. TSA headquarters.
6. Etc.?

John
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My guess is number 2. I wonder if he knows the judge since these lawsuits should have been thrown out.

If I lived in the vicinity I would be inclined to program that location in my GPS and fly over it frequently at the minimum legal altitude and possibly practice ground reference maneuvers. It would be necessary to find some way to document the altitude so I could prove that I did not fly below the legal limit. Another option would be to fly over it at night. Get 20 noisy airplanes involved and they would wish only balloons were flying overhead.
 
Gary F said:
My guess is number 2. I wonder if he knows the judge since these lawsuits should have been thrown out.

If I lived in the vicinity I would be inclined to program that location in my GPS and fly over it frequently at the minimum legal altitude and possibly practice ground reference maneuvers. It would be necessary to find some way to document the altitude so I could prove that I did not fly below the legal limit. Another option would be to fly over it at night. Get 20 noisy airplanes involved and they would wish only balloons were flying overhead.
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GPS recording a 3D track.
 
John Baker said:
Looking at the pictures of the place, it seems like total isolation is their goal. They have acres of trees surrounding a very high walled compound, with what appear to be guard towers at all four corners of the wall, then one on each side of the massive entry gate. Both sides of the wall have meticulously cleared land for a good distance before any building could be reached ( or gotten away from) by anyone on foot.

It almost appears to be a prison if you ignored the architectural embellishments.

Whatever it is, these people are looking for 100% privacy from the ground and the air.

The pictures on Google earth of the place look very little like the place in the photos shown in the article. From google earth there are no walls or towers, the place looks benign.

It might just be:

1. A secret government installation
2. A very paranoid rich mans home.
3. A whore house for the very wealthy.
4. An actual prison of some sort.
5. TSA headquarters.
6. Etc.?

John
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It is the entrance to the wildfire facility.
 
Are they going to sue Google for the images on the web?
 
JeffDG said:
Andromeda Strain? The reference rings a bell, but not 100% sure...
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A book and movie written by Michael Crichton about an extraterrestrial pathogen that infects humans. The wildfire facility is the fictional lab where scientists study the organism in an attempt to develop a cure for the illness.
 
JeffDG said:
Andromeda Strain? The reference rings a bell, but not 100% sure...
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Yep! !

some additional info

http://www.mydesert.com/article/20110130/NEWS01/110130002/Who-JCM-Farming-what-they-doing-

the farm “provides a secure location for JCM to conduct research and development of a highly confidential nature for which numerous patents have been applied for, are pending, and have been granted.”A search of U.S. patents finds that John C. Marrelli filed at least four patents related to plastic bags, containers and fastening devices.
Another patent refers to “methods and compositions for improving plant growth.”
The patent application refers to “spore-forming microorganisms, present in soil, plants and other forms of organic matter, (that) survive excessive heat of a fire within soil or carbonized wood.” The microorganisms are purported to enhance plant growth and plants’ nutritional value, and can be useful in “producing DNA-enhanced plants which may be consumed by human individuals for enhancing human DNA.”
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Someone just organize an airplane rally that happens to wind its way back and forth over this place about 10 times every weekend at the minimum legal altitude. I bet there are more GA pilots in California willing to participate than they can track down. I also fail to see how the big legal bills were achieved by the defendants. I'm no attorney but wouldn't something like an AOPA legal guy be able to come in an squash this on it's complete lack of merit and violation of the national airspace system? Isn't protecting our rights something we expect them to do for our support? Isn't there some ballooning org that would have supported this opposition?

I agree, these guys are clearly up to something they don't want any attention attracted to and that might be just want could be used against them - maybe in the media?
 
These guys are trying to write their own aviation laws and regulations. Where is the AOPA when you need it? AOPA should offer to represent the defendants in order to preserve our right to fly legally. I would be glad to contribute to a legal defense fund.

The low flights cause a danger to those inside, and noise and privacy concerns, JCM contends.
Gotta do something about those noisy hot air balloons. Why are they entitled to more privacy than an ordinary schmuck?

research and development of a highly confidential nature
What can you see from a balloon? Is the research conducted outdoors? Maybe they are testing what sunscreen works best for nude sunbathing.

Will one of the lawyers here explain why this is not a fundamental problem with the tort law system?
 
PittsDriver said:
Someone just organize an airplane rally that happens to wind its way back and forth over this place about 10 times every weekend at the minimum legal altitude. I bet there are more GA pilots in California willing to participate than they can track down.
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There are a lot of pilots in California so it might be possible to get a large number of planes to participate, 20 or more would be great. I bet they can photograph the tail numbers of anything flying below about 5000 feet so I would use a rental or fly at night. They will sue you even if you are above the legal minimum.

PittsDriver said:
I also fail to see how the big legal bills were achieved by the defendants.
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I was thinking the same thing. Are they being properly represented? I wonder if their attorney has been corrupted. Another explanation is that the plaintiff's attorneys are really good at running up the defense bill. Lawyers here please explain.

Barrett filed for personal bankruptcy last year, leaving the balloon company to his wife alone. He blames the more than $130,000 in legal bills their company's run up fighting the JCM lawsuit.

What did he get for that? I thought the deposition and subpoena thing works both ways. It should be able to get them to disclose the details of some sensitive information they do not want publicized or force them to lie to the court. That might come in handy.

PittsDriver said:
I'm no attorney but wouldn't something like an AOPA legal guy be able to come in an squash this on it's complete lack of merit and violation of the national airspace system? Isn't protecting our rights something we expect them to do for our support? Isn't there some ballooning org that would have supported this opposition?

I agree, these guys are clearly up to something they don't want any attention attracted to and that might be just want could be used against them - maybe in the media?
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Absolutely.

I suspect that this place is destined to be a resort for the ultra wealthy like the Hollywood elite. This legal bullying must not be allowed to persist.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Mysterious, BTW, it gets worse.
http://www.mydesert.com/article/20110201/NEWS01/102010304/Ranch-expands-legal-campaign-over-airspace
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Oh, that's rich! JCM is not anti-aviation, just anti-anybody-else-aviation:

Zimmer has in recent weeks attempted to organize neighbors against JCM's request to the county officials for a private helipad on its property that would allow multiple helicopter flights per day.
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Wouldn't it be great if all the neighbors sued JCM once they helicopter overflights for approach-to-land start? :rofl: What's good for the goose...
 
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TangoWhiskey said:
Oh, that's rich! JCM is not anti-aviation, just anti-anybody-else-aviation:



Wouldn't it be great if all the neighbors sued JCM once they helicopter overflights for approach-to-land start? :rofl: What's good for the goose...
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Maybe a class action suit would allow them to pool their resources, so that no one person has to foot the legal bills.
 
Is there any way that the defendants could force the lawsuits to be joined together, so that they could pool their resources to defend against the suits?
 
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