Pilotage and Dead Reckoning

Clark1961 said:
I suspect that many folks are like me....that is to say we use GPS/moving map/DME the first time or two on a route and then look out the window and use headings on subsequent trips. I don't like having my head down when flying around DEN or around the mountains. I expect many folks like to have their eyes outside when flying little planes.
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That's the real beauty of the systems. You get a buttload of information in just a glance so you can devote a lot more attention out the window. Yeah, it was just the heading you looked for, but at the same time, all this other information was in your field of view that you absorbed and processed without hardly a thought. You see the plane is near the magenta line, you don't need give it any more thought than that, you have confirmed your pilotage out the window in half a second.
 
CTLSi said:
No one can avoid busting an airspace in a complex area just using a paper sectional and staring at roads and mountains.
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How do you think we did it in the 70s? Should say "you can't" do it.
 
$$$$$
 
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Did the Alcan highway VFR with the chart. Had the charts loaded on the GPS also. I always use the chart function on Foreflight on the I pad. Makes airspace much easier.
 
CTLSi said:
If newer pilots were expected to be proficient at pilotage, then it would be an emphasis, but it's not.
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:confused: Pilotage is in the Private, Commercial, and CFI PTS. I think it's pretty clear and emphasized that we should know how to do it.
 
Clark1961 said:
I suspect that many folks are like me....that is to say we use GPS/moving map/DME the first time or two on a route and then look out the window and use headings on subsequent trips. I don't like having my head down when flying around DEN or around the mountains. I expect many folks like to have their eyes outside when flying little planes.
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That would be me and what I was getting at in the OP. Out west in MT, there's not a lot of airpspace to worry about but even then, you're following a valley and/or a major road. My CFI complained that it's hard to get students lost out there, and it is. Over here there's a maze of restricted space, MOAs, Class C etc... and the land is flat and one town looks like dozens of others. Yes, I could navigate with a chart and a compass. Given that my buddy clipped an R space and got 90 days for it. I won't do it, especially with at least 4 GPSes and 2 NAV radios in the plane with me (GNS530, iPad, iPhone, AV8OR and KX155 is what's flying with me at a minimum, usually I also have my work iPhone and my wife's iPhone too). From here to Orangeburg, Jekyll, St Simons, Meter etc.. I have no need, but I flew the routes a couple of times with a GPS before i launched without one.
 
bartmc said:
Flame suit on.

....Would anyone actually make the trip from Savannah to Orlando using only pilotage and dead reckoning?.....
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I did it for years while running the SCCA racing circuit... X04 to Sav direct... Seems to me I had the clear the MOA / R space around Palatka and stay west of Jax.... Back in the mid 80's.. I am sure the landscape has changed since then though.. Altho I did have a King 8001 /01 Loran to reference to.. That thing was DAMN accurate,, almost as good as a GPS/WAAS...
 
How can one get lost having the perspective of 3,000 feet over the ground? And having a radio and a transponder? It's like getting lost inside a shopping mall.
 
I have a pilot friend who learned in Oklahoma. He says pilots who learn in Florida should have "Cannot navigate" stamped on their certs. In Florida if you climb you'll see one coast or the other.

But in some parts of the country it all looks alike. And there's no radar coverage. And VORs are a loooong way apart. So you'd better know how to dead reckon and navigate.

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CTLSi said:
How can one get lost having the perspective of 3,000 feet over the ground? And having a radio and a transponder? It's like getting lost inside a shopping mall.
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Try doing it over some midwestern cornfields, where every road and every town looks pretty much the same as far as the eye can see.

Have to agree about the Sunshine State. My one trip to Lauderdale my GPS took a big time dump and I barely noticed.
 
Id have airplane gps foreflight with a Bluetooth gps unit like bad elf and plot out the trip pilotage


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steingar said:
Try doing it over some midwestern cornfields, where every road and every town looks pretty much the same as far as the eye can see.

Have to agree about the Sunshine State. My one trip to Lauderdale my GPS took a big time dump and I barely noticed.
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Yup. I brought back a plane for the flight school I work at from Chicago and for 2 states, everything looked the same
 
jordane93 said:
:confused: Pilotage is in the Private, Commercial, and CFI PTS. I think it's pretty clear and emphasized that we should know how to do it.
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Sport Pilot too. I did my cross country flights in training without a GPS, I was not allowed by my instructor to use anything but a sectional, a compass, and a DG.
 
If you show up for a SP or PP check ride without a GPS, you can still take the ride (there was not one in the plane when I took mine). I don't think any DPE would let you take the flight without a sectional. Or at least not pass you once you got to the nav portion of the ride...
 
steingar said:
Try doing it over some midwestern cornfields, where every road and every town looks pretty much the same as far as the eye can see.

Have to agree about the Sunshine State. My one trip to Lauderdale my GPS took a big time dump and I barely noticed.
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I always thought they drew lat/long lines on the ground over Kansas :rofl:

One thing is for sure - all you need is a stopwatch and good visibility of the ground (with maybe a map). You don't even need a compass! Minus the big anvil looking T-Storms, there isn't much to look at ..
 
jsstevens said:
I have a pilot friend who learned in Oklahoma. He says pilots who learn in Florida should have "Cannot navigate" stamped on their certs. In Florida if you climb you'll see one coast or the other.

But in some parts of the country it all looks alike. And there's no radar coverage. And VORs are a loooong way apart. So you'd better know how to dead reckon and navigate.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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I remember getting lost as a student pilot. It's a lot easier to do than you think with a lot of land, and no big defining landmarks.

We did not have GPS in 1975, and RNAV was just in it's infancy and not in many planes. We thought RNAV was the shiznet. You could actually move VOR's into a direct line to your destination. Woo-hoo! :lol:

Navigation was all VOR, NDB, and ADF. If you were fancy, you had a DME. And if you were really fancy, you had RNAV. But even with all that, I remember once or twice calling Temple tower and saying "ah, Temple, could you give me a heading to you?" And it was CAVU all day long. :wink2:
 
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