Pilot Threshold

[poadeleted20]

This is one of those posts that makes me wonder if I should still be flying. Yes, I'm a CFI, yes, I renew my CFI every 24 months, but I've logged all of, what, 20 hours in the past 10 years. I forget stuff that I didn't even know I used to know. But I know I've forgotten it all and am flying with an instructor until I'm up to speed. Is that such a bad thing?

Assuming your question is not rhetorical, no, it isn't a bad thing. In fact, it's doing jus the right thing.

 

[poadeleted20]

I just used 70% as a random number. I'm aware of the written test standards. I was speaking more on the line of subjects that pilots seem to not have been even exposed to. They come here, as I do, to learn but somehow the subject they're inquiring about didn't come up on their checkride. They're not unsure on the subject. It seems in some cases, they've never even been exposed to the subject. I don't see how that's possible in some cases. It's great that they want to know, it's just weird that they got through a checkride not having to know.

That is an instruction quality issue, and I think most of us in the business know there is a lot of poor-quality training going on -- a most regrettable situation.

I'm pre-solo with only a few hours and I'm returning to flight training after the holidays so I don't know what I'll need to know for the written or the PTS. I was just curious about what will be required. It seems to vary from DPE to DPE or FSDO to FSDO.

Given your situation, I'm not sure what experience you've had which leads you to say that last part. Yes, there are some maverick examiners out there, but the FAA does their best to weed them out. Likewise, the Flight Standards folks at FAA HQ are doing their best to ensure that the standards are applied the same by all the FSDO's. However, humans being human, it is disingenuous to expect perfection in those efforts.

 

[LandSickness]

Given your situation, I'm not sure what experience you've had which leads you to say that last part. Yes, there are some maverick examiners out there, but the FAA does their best to weed them out. Likewise, the Flight Standards folks at FAA HQ are doing their best to ensure that the standards are applied the same by all the FSDO's. However, humans being human, it is disingenuous to expect perfection in those efforts.

I didn't mean my question to be an indictment on the system at all. You're right though, I certainly don't know enough to draw any conclusions. I was just curious about how some seemed to pass a checkride without being exposed to something I assumed was essential to passing a checkride. My assumptions are obviously inconsistent with what's required.

 

[ja_user]

I didn't mean my question to be an indictment on the system at all. You're right though, I certainly don't know enough to draw any conclusions. I was just curious about how some seemed to pass a checkride without being exposed to something I assumed was essential to passing a checkride. My assumptions are obviously inconsistent with what's required.

The checkride (flight and oral) cannot possibly test you on everything that the instructor is supposed to teach you. If it did, it would be a multi-day event and no one would do it..

The PTS highlights a sample of what you will be tested on and expected to know.. Obviously there is lattitude especially in the Oral, to figure out if you know a subject and either dive deeper, or move on to something else...

 

[zaitcev]

You may be sure that everyone in the FAA Safety Team shares your concern. The problem is that while you can lead a horse to water, the same is not true of mules, and stubbornness is a regrettably common characteristic of pilots. If anyone has a workable and publicly acceptable solution, I'm quite sure the FAA would love to hear it.

I think WINGS goes a way in the right direction. If only CFIs were just a little more interested. I only found 1 across the local bunch, but he lost his password. At first I thought, great, I'll just find a Validator. Ended talking to a gentleman from FSDO and explaining to him how my CFI switched e-mails and forgot to update it at FAAsafety etc. etc. I have A070405-08 scheduled for this Sunday and can't wait to find out that he did not recover site access after all

 

[poadeleted20]

I think WINGS goes a way in the right direction. If only CFIs were just a little more interested.

Given that the Wings program provides incentives to pilots to go get some periodic refresher training, and that means paying an instructor to fly with them, and instructors with all the money they want seem to be rather rare, it always surprises me that more CFI's don't push this program locally.

 

[Graueradler]

I'm the OP and I'm not talking about fine points. The most crass example is PP mentions that he thought he felt a little engine roughness on his last flight, what did I think it could be. Failed open when I asked him if he had sumped his fuel tanks. Did not have a fuel tester. I got one out of the display case and showed him how to sump his Archer. I was shocked but don't think I let it show. I just explained and demonstrated so that he would feel at ease in the future to ask any other questions he might have.

 

[Henning]

At 56 I am definitely in the group that starts to experience knowledge that is filed way to deep to be easily recalled. This is why I write down that new frequency every time. This is also why I participate in as many online and in person training events I can. I might even go back and do one a second or third time. After learning or relearning something I try to use it so I don't loose it again.

When I loose the ability to learn I will hang up the headset. In the mean time I still view my pilot certificate as a license to learn.

I always hated the 'license to learn' phrase, no it's not. It's a license to haul passengers in a plane, so you best already know WTF you're doing. Continued learning is a requirement of the license, not a right garnered by it.

 

[onwards]

I always hated the 'license to learn' phrase, no it's not. It's a license to haul passengers in a plane, so you best already know WTF you're doing. Continued learning is a requirement of the license, not a right garnered by it.

Yeah... It's the right sentiment, but the wrong phrase.

And anyway, it's really continued training (it's much more important to fly at least once a month than read books) more than learning.

 

[Henning]

Yeah... It's the right sentiment, but the wrong phrase.

And anyway, it's really continued training (it's much more important to fly at least once a month than read books) more than learning.

Actually, there comes a point in flying in the 500-1000 hr range, potentially even less where that reverses, physically flying is all muscle memory which like with a bike doesn't go away. It's the thought process that get slowed as data streams overwrite old pathways over time and the brain has to refresh those conections. At that point reading actually becomes more productive than actually flying because not only does it keep those thought pathways from getting buried, you can add more new information faster and cheaper than flying.

 

[onwards]

Actually, there comes a point in flying in the 500-1000 hr range, potentially even less where that reverses, physically flying is all muscle memory which like with a bike doesn't go away. It's the thought process that get slowed as data streams overwrite old pathways over time and the brain has to refresh those conections. At that point reading actually becomes more productive than actually flying because not only does it keep those thought pathways from getting buried, you can add more new information faster and cheaper than flying.

You know, that sounds like a very good point. With my sub-200 hours I am still in the "omg, I can't believe I'm really doing this" stage of taking off.

 

[Dave Theisen]

Speaking of which, here is a dumb question: how do you CLOSE a VFR flight plan? I know I can open one with the 800 number or even on Foreflight, but I have forgotten the closing part. Have never filed one after getting my PPL, but am thinking about it for a long trip coming up.

I see that your question was answered, however you are missing a step. Through1-800-WxBrief or Foreflight, or DUATs or Fltplan.com you are FILING your flight plan, you still need to OPEN your flight plan with FSS once you actually commence your flight.

 

[Marauder]

Drivers, do you know by memory the legally required distance when stopping at a railroad crossing? No? Do you know the specific distance to dim your headlights for an oncoming vehicle?

Do you know what's about right when you are actually driving/see it and drive safely without knowing the number of feet by memory?

My ppl textbook is over 1300 pages. My poor human brain isn't going to store all those pages in perfect detail. But I'll darn well make sure I learn and fully understand the important points/learn the skills/learn the procedures even if I slip on a detail here or here.

You summed it up nicely. The only difference is that a cop is not likely to ticket you if you drove 50 feet too far with your headlights on high. My constant fear is forgetting one of those obscure or seldom used regs that the FAA will hold me accountable to. I think this why some pilots have regressed to day VFR guys although they hold instrument and higher ratings. This environment is not as forgiving legally.

 

[poadeleted20]

You summed it up nicely. The only difference is that a cop is not likely to ticket you if you drove 50 feet too far with your headlights on high. My constant fear is forgetting one of those obscure or seldom used regs that the FAA will hold me accountable to. I think this why some pilots have regressed to day VFR guys although they hold instrument and higher ratings. This environment is not as forgiving legally.

At the same time, the FAA rarely gets involved unless you do something to attract their attention. IOW, to use your automotive analogy, if you "drove 50 feet too far with your headlights on high," they probably wouldn't get involved unless you blinded another driver who went off the road as a result.

 

[denverpilot]

Call 1-800-WX-BRIEF and tell them you want to close your flight plan. They'll ask for your call sign and if you're on the ground at the destination you filed. It takes about 30 seconds.

Or... If the airport has a published Flight Service frequency, can do it there also.

Most folks on this board pooh-pooh that because the Flight Service radios at their airports are not well-maintained... heck most folks here say they can't reach Flight Service in flight...

But I've never had a problem except with one RCO and it was fixed after it was reported by enough folks (3 by the way) to 800-WX-BRIEF. (The old problem of no one knowing it wasn't receiving well which wouldn't be found until the next maintenance cycle which could be months away...)

So you'll get a lot of opinions on this one here, but it's a viable way to do it.

If things are really quiet and they feel helpful, bored Ground controllers will also sometimes be willing to help in this regard, if its a Towered field.