Pilot falls asleep, misses destination

“The pilot "unintentionally fell asleep while in command of the aircraft," the Melbourne-based airline said.“

at least it was unintentional.
 
...are you technically still "living the dream" when it puts you to sleep? :eek::D
 
Saw a King Air miss an entire Country once. Coming from somewhere to the East, destination KSNA. Up around 18,000 or so. Goes NORDO, keeps flying straight ahead after SLI and runs out of gas around FICKY. This wakes him up and he did a good job ditching and gets plucked out of the water right away. He was very lucky, there was a Navy helicopter that just happened to be milling around out in the Warning Area and had enough gas to hang around, watch him hit the water and rescue him. Oh yeah. It was night
 
"The newspaper said the pilot reported for duty despite having had little or no sleep the previous night due to a personal crisis."

So..... Ignoring "PAVE" and "IM SAFE" is okay in Australia?
 
"The newspaper said the pilot reported for duty despite having had little or no sleep the previous night due to a personal crisis."

So..... Ignoring "PAVE" and "IM SAFE" is okay in Australia?

I’m sure it’s not, but just like here you’ll have people routinely ignore being unfit for duty if there’s a negative consequence for not flying the trip. Welcome to commercial aviation! :)
 
I’m sure it’s not, but just like here you’ll have people routinely ignore being unfit for duty if there’s a negative consequence for not flying the trip. Welcome to commercial aviation! :)
Now you got me curious... say your comrade in the other seat is showing signs of being unfit for duty.... What would your company expect you to do?
 
Remember Northwest 188 overflow MSP ??
 
Now you got me curious... say your comrade in the other seat is showing signs of being unfit for duty.... What would your company expect you to do?

I don't really look at it from what the company expects, but our interests are aligned here - we don't want the plane to be unsafe, so the end goal is to not let an unfit pilot fly an airplane. As long as that's accomplished, I'll do what I can to keep it between the other guy and me. For stuff that's cut and dry (alcohol, drugs, some health issue, etc), you’d just pull the other guy aside and tell him to bang in sick. You don’t screw around with it. If it were a recurring problem or there's evidence the pilot needs outside help, there are channels through the union to raise that flag in a discreet manner. Again, I'll never let an unfit pilot fly a plane, but I'm also not in the business of nuking anyone's career. That said, in almost 13 years of flying in a crew environment, I’ve never been put in that position.

Fatigue is tougher because it's a sliding scale, and it usually manifests itself in small ways - little mistakes, etc. At what point is it truly unfit? Obviously falling asleep and overflying an airport qualifies, but I've also flown after a crappy night's sleep, and while I wasn't having a hard time staying awake, I certainly wasn't 100% either. I'm not proud of it and I do everything in my power to be well rested before I fly, but I think most professionals that have done this gig for any length of time have been in a position where they're not exactly where they'd like to be from a fatigue standpoint. That's where my comment to your post comes from.
 
I don't really look at it from what the company expects, but our interests are aligned here - we don't want the plane to be unsafe, so the end goal is to not let an unfit pilot fly an airplane. As long as that's accomplished, I'll do what I can to keep it between the other guy and me. For stuff that's cut and dry (alcohol, drugs, some health issue, etc), you’d just pull the other guy aside and tell him to bang in sick. You don’t screw around with it. If it were a recurring problem or there's evidence the pilot needs outside help, there are channels through the union to raise that flag in a discreet manner. Again, I'll never let an unfit pilot fly a plane, but I'm also not in the business of nuking anyone's career. That said, in almost 13 years of flying in a crew environment, I’ve never been put in that position.

Fatigue is tougher because it's a sliding scale, and it usually manifests itself in small ways - little mistakes, etc. At what point is it truly unfit? Obviously falling asleep and overflying an airport qualifies, but I've also flown after a crappy night's sleep, and while I wasn't having a hard time staying awake, I certainly wasn't 100% either. I'm not proud of it and I do everything in my power to be well rested before I fly, but I think most professionals that have done this gig for any length of time have been in a position where they're not exactly where they'd like to be from a fatigue standpoint. That's where my comment to your post comes from.
100% correct on all points.
 
A new job for the monkey...I always heard every plane needs an autopilot and a monkey. The autopilot flies the plane and the monkey keeps the pilot from touching anything. Now the monkey has to keep the pilot awake also.
 
Too bad the plane didn't have VNAV and auto-land.
 
It’s probably difficult for most guys here to understand how this can happen.
Most here fly when they want to, and where they want to go.
The Pros are given a schedule, and at times it’s pretty rough. Redeyes, etc...

You may feel okay at the start and initial the 117 form before departure (at 11:00 pm), but once you arrive at destination it could be 5:00 am. Different story. Stuff happens.
 
My dad claims he once fell asleep on his motorcycle and woke up a mile down the road...

A co-worker was doing one of the iron butt motorcycle rides from coast to coast, left Virginia and eventually fell asleep on his sport touring BMW motorcycle and ended up in a California hospital with no real recollection of how he got there. Story from witnesses sounded hilarious. Sitting upright, rode up an embankment, went airborne, and almost landed it.

I just pictured the whole thing like a deleted scene from Weekend at Bernie's or something. Given that the fella was okay, I felt fine laughing.
 
My dad claims he once fell asleep on his motorcycle and woke up a mile down the road...
i woke up on the left lane side gravel area then headed/rode it out into a grassy area dividing opposing lanes of highway
 
https://www.foxnews.com/travel/pilot-sleeping-australia-fly

This guys got nothing on my great uncle. He fell asleep and missed his destination by a entire state.

At least he woke up before running out of fuel (or over water beyond the point of no return). Many years ago now, but once a couple of my
co-workers were riding a helicopter to shore from an offshore oil rig. The pilot dozed off and the chopper went into a dive. They of course
screamed their heads off. The pilot woke up and recovered, landing uneventfully. I am told that both passengers needed a change of underwear
afterwards. The pilot (an older guy) got fired. Glad I wasn't on that flight.

Dave
 
It’s probably difficult for most guys here to understand how this can happen.
Most here fly when they want to, and where they want to go.
The Pros are given a schedule, and at times it’s pretty rough. Redeyes, etc...

You may feel okay at the start and initial the 117 form before departure (at 11:00 pm), but once you arrive at destination it could be 5:00 am. Different story. Stuff happens.

Makes honest sense really.... when we fly for recreation or light biz its much different and more exciting than it must be if flying all day(or night) is "another day at the office". If we are going to be honest not a one of us hasn't come too close to dozing while driving... kinda same difference.
 
Amazing coincidence. It was fifty years ago today, Sid Beamer and his wife flew off into the sunset (Pacific Ocean) on there way from Colexio to Ukiah. Never found, it set the stage for me becoming the Ukiah Volkswagen Dealer.
 
Your job is to make sure stuff doesn't happen. Do the unions that supposedly make air travel safer make sure these guys lose their jobs or keep them?
Not sure what you’re asking.
 
Don't let me wake up and catch you asleep...

LOL I used to brief that right before stepping to the BUFF with a brand new copilot on those practice bleeding long duration sorties.

I had an Aircraft Commander doze off on me all the way to pre-contact to the tanker over Hawaii back in my co-pilot days. As a Reservist I had the luxury of high time mentors and a lot of stick time compared to my Active Duty peers, so I already knew how to refuel from the right seat as a copilot. Legalities dictated the AC did the boom time, so I had to wake him up and have him take the gas. It was scary and hilarious. Dude wakes up to my elbow and acts like he's been awake all sortie long, proceeds to get the gas like nothing happened. Straight up BUFFoonery.

These days, flying in my life is best served in 3 hour doses or less. :D
 
Not sure what you’re asking.
You've asserted that pilots unions are necessary to make commercial aviation safe. So I'm asking whether the pilots imagine maybe sure these pilots lose their jobs or make sure they keep them. I see airline pilots in this thread making excuses for endangering passengers and saying they'd cover up behavior that does so.
 
management is responsible for disciplinary action, unions have a duty to represent the membership,

management also runs the show & are ultimately responsible & accountable for how they may go about it & what may take place,

asking a union to ensure a firing or any disciplinary action is akin to a defense lawyer acting in any way against a client
 
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