Pilatus down in northeast Wyoming

Yikes. The Pilatus is a well-loved, relatively easy-to-fly airplane.
I hope it has a CVR.
RIP.
 
Very odd flight track indeed. At that location, and 26,000 feet, really nothing to look at to warrant the tight loop.
RIP

more here, evidently the plane made a distress call prior to crash.
 
Youse. ?Ice? anyone have the weather in that part of the country from Yesterday?
 
Nearest reporting station, Gillette:
KGCC 262253Z AUTO 07006KT 10SM CLR 26/08 A2998 RMK AO2 SLP094 T02610078
KGCC 262153Z AUTO 06009KT 10SM CLR 24/08 A3001 RMK AO2 SLP106 T02440078
But, Flightaware track shows some radar returns in the vicinity.
Other reports mention pilot's distress call about losing control and autopilot malfunction.
 
Nearest reporting station, Gillette:
KGCC 262253Z AUTO 07006KT 10SM CLR 26/08 A2998 RMK AO2 SLP094 T02610078
KGCC 262153Z AUTO 06009KT 10SM CLR 24/08 A3001 RMK AO2 SLP106 T02440078
But, Flightaware track shows some radar returns in the vicinity.
Other reports mention pilot's distress call about losing control and autopilot malfunction.
Hopefully it's not a "accidentally disengaged AP and didn't notice it" event.
 
Youse. ?Ice? anyone have the weather in that part of the country from Yesterday?
Here’s where it went down. There was mild convective activity to the north northeast, and an AIRMET for moderate turbulence from FL280 to 410. The precip did intensify to the south a bit immediately following passage, so it wasn’t entirely stable. Visible satellite showed mostly cirrus and debris associated with some of the buildups.
 

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I saw some report saying they reported the auto pilot kicked off and "were trying to get control of it"...so possible ice, convection, runaway trim??? or ??? Looks like ADSB signal was lost pretty high so probably broke up.

RIP.
 
Yikes. The Pilatus is a well-loved, relatively easy-to-fly airplane.
I hope it has a CVR.
RIP.

relatively easy to fly until someone lulled into a false sense of security by a very capable airplane encounters a situation that they don’t possess the skills to fly themselves out of.


It’s happened to lots of people in Pilatus.

edit: I can think of 3 Pilatus accidents in the last several years that all started out with an autopilot failure, which should be an incredibly benign non-event.
 
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relatively easy to fly until someone lulled into a false sense of security by a very capable airplane encounters a situation that they don’t possess the skills to fly themselves out of.


It’s happened to lots of people in Pilatus.

edit: I can think of 3 Pilatus accidents in the last several years that all started out with an autopilot failure, which should be an incredibly benign non-event.
DavidWhite, I agree. I think that's it's only a benign non-event if you're diligent enough to kick off the autopilot (or not even
engage it until 5,000 to 10,000 feet or something like that on climb out) on a regular basis - just so you're ready for when
it kicks off inadvertently. I think that too many pilots are overly dependent on the autopilot.
 
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There's no moral appeal you can make to curb this dynamic. The only inflection you can hope is maybe underwriters creating access floors based on discriminators well inside the pt 91 regulatory thresholds (age, recency, outsized recurrent requirements, solo restrictions). Maybe some relent and let Netjets do the big boy flying.

Given the cost-shifting nature to insurance, I'm a bit suprised revenue TBM/PC operators don't lobby/collude with insurers against kamikazee $bags tarnishing their fleet hull loss average.
 
There are some of these crashes that came shortly after the insurance-directed hours were achieved. But I wonder how many have been (a) uninsured or (b) insured but flying without meeting the policy requirements.
 
Also, this smells a lot like part 134.5. The guy didn’t have a commercial ticket and I doubt he was doing this flight out of the goodness of his heart.
 
Also, this smells a lot like part 134.5. The guy didn’t have a commercial ticket and I doubt he was doing this flight out of the goodness of his heart.
From Beechtalk:
appears that they were all friends, I would assume they were all going on the cruise together.
Especially since the owner/pilot’s wife was on board.
 
relatively easy to fly until someone lulled into a false sense of security by a very capable airplane encounters a situation that they don’t possess the skills to fly themselves out of.


It’s happened to lots of people in Pilatus.

edit: I can think of 3 Pilatus accidents in the last several years that all started out with an autopilot failure, which should be an incredibly benign non-event.
Yep, I'm familiar with all Pilatus accidents, and in all cases, the pilot assisted the outcome.
I think all pilots should have to hand-fly a two or more hour stint in zero visibility. I did three hours once (couldn't use the A/P, didn't have one), and it was stressful at first. Got into the rhythm, quite happy to have a spare pilot on board, as well. I did stink at the end (which was a circle-to-land at mins, yay.)
 
P

the next question would be how a Florida prison official bought a $9 million airplane, but hey.
Swing and a miss. He is into construction. And he sat on the Board for the Georgia Department of Corrections where he currently serves as Chairman (not Florida) which isn't exactly a government job but more of a volunteer position.

His obit looks like he might be able to afford a PC12....I mean he flying one and all...

From Mr. Haynie's Obituary:

Larry was an avid hunting and fishing outdoorsman; gun enthusiast and ammunition expert. In the mid 1970’s Larry began his career in law enforcement. He was a Department of Natural Resources officer where he later joined the Douglas County Sheriffs office and worked as a Deputy. In 1980, he co-founded Georgia Arms. Larry owned many businesses in the area. He co-owned and operated Dependable Bonding in Douglasville with his wife, Lisa for many years. He owned U-U-Fill It mini warehouse storage in Temple as well as Pro-Tech Car Wash and Lube in Villa Rica. Larry was appointed by Governor Brian Kemp to the Board for the Georgia Department of Corrections where he currently serves as Chairman.
 
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I think all pilots should have to hand-fly a two or more hour stint in zero visibility. I did three hours once (couldn't use the A/P, didn't have one), and it was stressful at first.

That would be a good start I think. Bringing Pt91 operators of turbine aircraft in line with 135 would be a better option IMO. You wanna fly a PC12? Cool, you get 2 checkrides a year and a line check.
 
Also, this smells a lot like part 134.5. The guy didn’t have a commercial ticket and I doubt he was doing this flight out of the goodness of his heart.
He was actually a very religious guy and I’m 100% sure it was all above board. The pilot/owner and his wife were friends with the singing group and they were all going on an Alaskan cruise. Larry was a local guy, his youngest sister and I went all through school together. He had several businesses, and had been flying for quite some time, I don’t know his complete history, but he did have a King Air 90 in 2013 when I bought a Conquest. This accident has really shook up a lot of people in the area.
It will likely be pilot error, as most accidents are, but that doesn’t change the loss for all the families involved.
 
That would be a good start I think. Bringing Pt91 operators of turbine aircraft in line with 135 would be a better option IMO. You wanna fly a PC12? Cool, you get 2 checkrides a year and a line check.
I honestly don’t think that would make a lot of difference. It mostly just means you learn to do checkrides.
 
is it possible for pc12 to have a problem with runaway trim?
 
That would be a good start I think. Bringing Pt91 operators of turbine aircraft in line with 135 would be a better option IMO. You wanna fly a PC12? Cool, you get 2 checkrides a year and a line check.

Insurers could require initial and recurrent which likely would be informed by actuarial data.

Not even 91K operators have a regulatory requirement for recurring checks like 121/135 does. But those checks don’t ensure 100% proficiency in any set of conditions.
 
I think you will find insurance companies will drive requirements…more regulation is probably not the answer…but I’m sort of a libertarian…so less is more to me.
 
You're correct. It's an odious and untrue smear.
Hence why I deleted it…I realized it failed to say what I intended. My point was that folks tend to equate religion with someone automatically being trustworthy, and I disagree with that automatic correlation. My intent wasn’t to say that religious folks are automatically UN-trustworthy, either, hence the deletion. I also realize this will still not be a popular opinion, but so be it.
 
He was actually a very religious guy and I’m 100% sure it was all above board.

Hitting the ground with a boatload of passengers due to incompetence was definitely below board.
 
I honestly don’t think that would make a lot of difference. It mostly just means you learn to do checkrides.
And you have to have at least a minimum set of skills to pass a checkride, at least in theory. It's a valid idea.
DavidWhite, I agree. I think that's it's only a benign non-event if you're diligent enough to kick off the autopilot (or not even
engage it until 5,000 to 10,000 feet or something like that on climb out) on a regular basis - just so you're ready for when
it kicks off inadvertently. I think that too many pilots are overly dependent on the autopilot.
This. Far too many "autopilot pilots" out there. To me it's a point of pride to be able to fly as well as the autopilot does. I even once hand flew a whole leg up into the flight levels and back down, just because. (Maybe I was bored.)

And autopilots will occasionally try to kill you. Ask me about the time a G3000, GFC710, Autothrottle, FADEC equipped TBM I was flying went nuts inside the FAF at night in IMC and icing... And it tried to fight me even after the disconnect. That was fun...
 
Hitting the ground with a boatload of passengers due to incompetence was definitely below board.
Not sure there is enough data out there to make such a statement. The PC12 is a complex aircraft with a lot of potential failure modes, and this could have been out of the realm of the pilots ability to fix the problem. The way that big moveable horizontal stab works, if it went full deflection uncommanded, would be quite a handful. Much less the possibility of other fight control surface failures. Maybe this guy did screw up, but I would give the guy the benefit of the doubt until the final is out. Apparently he came out of a King Air, so not a NewB pilot.
 
Not sure there is enough data out there to make such a statement. The PC12 is a complex aircraft with a lot of potential failure modes, and this could have been out of the realm of the pilots ability to fix the problem. The way that big moveable horizontal stab works, if it went full deflection uncommanded, would be quite a handful. Much less the possibility of other fight control surface failures. Maybe this guy did screw up, but I would give the guy the benefit of the doubt until the final is out. Apparently he came out of a King Air, so not a NewB pilot.

Short of the wings folding up or an engine failure over mountains at night or in imc there is nothing that should end with fatalities in a PC12.

Also, having flown a King Air doesn’t make someone not a newb pilot. The only barrier to entry is to have enough money to buy one, and enough money to insure it, which this guy clearly did.
 
meh, single pilot airplane, definitionally not complex enough preclude single pilot recovery but allow dual pilot recovery. These things are overpowered saratogas, sorry if that offends the ego of owner/operators of the type. One could just admit upfront to a reflexive/emotional aversion against calling out pilot error causals, and dispense with the aliens/hypoxia/uncommanded full control deflections cope. Actually giving the airplane, for once, the benefit of the doubt.

Statistically, it wasn't aliens or control failure, it was rich man over his head spatial-D'ng to a hole on the ground. But I look forward to the 6-9 pages of
1722799245701.png
 
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