Pick a Cirrus Beater

Mooney M20J/201.
 
I like the m20j. Been for a ride.. As soon as I earn my ifr rating I'll be able to fly our club's m20j's.
 
wabower said:
As a profressional buyer rep for airplanes, I'm always looking for the best way to quantify want vs. need, and to force the buyer to do his own hard-number analysis or provide the information so I can do it for him. I don't really care what he wants to do, I just want him to quantify it so that we are on the same page from the get-go and to eliminate the "moving target syndrome" that is prevalent when people start looking at airplanes with the predictable temporary insanity that accompanies such activities.

After 20-some years and several hundred planes, the simplest method is also the best method. Prepare a simple destination/frequency spreadsheet of the trips you can reasonably expect to make within the next year and another column for the next five years. It's harder than it sounds, and doesn't get any easier when we review the list for credibility. Three trips to the Bahamas? How many times have you been there during the past 10 years? What has changed that makes you think you'll go three times next year?

In your case, how long will gramma continue to live on the tundra? If she moves or dies, how many of those trips will evaporate? Will plane need change without those trips?

Insert the mileage number for each round trip and total the mileage estimate at the bottom of the page. Using that information, you can convert the trip to hours using block times for whatever airplane you choose, and also determine which trips feasible as non-stops.

If you force yourself to complete this exercise, and also force yourself to omit the whims (oh, if we have the plane we'll probably go to OSH, Vegas or the other B/S trips that are often thrown onto the list as filler) you will at least have a record of what you were thinking when you bought the plane, and be one step ahead of the herd insofar as logical thinking is concerned, if in fact that is possible when airplane purchases are concerned.


A
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Wayne I think that is great advice! As a hope to be owner working with a small group to hopefully get into a plane We and I have personally faced that situation. You head says be conservative but you drool gene kicks in and next thing I know looking at that 72' Arrow turns into looking at that 59' Bo with the sweet panel for only a few grand more.

A friend urged oh go with the Bo its sooo nice and you can be in North Palm Beach Fl From Philly in only 5.5 hr vs. 6-6.5 ( Flying times). Then my wife asked me the obvious question......." yeah and how many times do you plan on flying to North Palm Beach Florida" Which is the right question to ask. Of course I thought none but I could if I wanted to. Its like the generator I want to buy, My wife asks how many times in 17 years have we lost power in this house for more than 12 hours ( Answer perhaps once) my response is but we have it incase we need it.

Some things its good to buy more than you need, I've always belived it to be a good idea to stretch a bit in buying your home ( of course that was in the mid 90's) I guess airplanes can be the same to an extent but the question is how much. Comfort and stability certainly matter but I think if most of us think of that trans CONUS trip that would be so much fun and would of course be faster in a Bo than an Archer, well the old adage rings true its the journey not the destination. That type of trip would not be any less of an adventure in a PA28 or Tiger than it would be in a Bo.
 
jason said:
I

Anti-Cirrus sentiments run deep around here...
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There is good reason for that. 'Moron in a Cirrus' is a bit redundant...based on a whole plethora of experiences.

but they're great airplanes.
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sure they are...IF

If flown by competent pilots, they're as safe as anything out there. If flown by morons, they'll kill people. Seems the same can be said about anything with wings.
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Like anything with wings, the anti- sentiments revolve around the IF.....

The OP said he has that covered with just the CFI he has in mind.
 
Richard said:
There is good reason for that. 'Moron in a Cirrus' is a bit redundant...based on a whole plethora of experiences.

sure they are...IF

Like anything with wings, the anti- sentiments revolve around the IF.....

The OP said he has that covered with just the CFI he has in mind.
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So anybody that flies a Cirrus is a moron? Or is it that anybody that is a moron will only fly a Cirrus? :rolleyes:
 
AdamZ said:
Wayne I think that is great advice! As a hope to be owner working with a small group to hopefully get into a plane We and I have personally faced that situation. You head says be conservative but you drool gene kicks in and next thing I know looking at that 72' Arrow turns into looking at that 59' Bo with the sweet panel for only a few grand more.

A friend urged oh go with the Bo its sooo nice and you can be in North Palm Beach Fl From Philly in only 5.5 hr vs. 6-6.5 ( Flying times). Then my wife asked me the obvious question......." yeah and how many times do you plan on flying to North Palm Beach Florida" Which is the right question to ask. Of course I thought none but I could if I wanted to. Its like the generator I want to buy, My wife asks how many times in 17 years have we lost power in this house for more than 12 hours ( Answer perhaps once) my response is but we have it incase we need it.

Some things its good to buy more than you need, I've always belived it to be a good idea to stretch a bit in buying your home ( of course that was in the mid 90's) I guess airplanes can be the same to an extent but the question is how much. Comfort and stability certainly matter but I think if most of us think of that trans CONUS trip that would be so much fun and would of course be faster in a Bo than an Archer, well the old adage rings true its the journey not the destination. That type of trip would not be any less of an adventure in a PA28 or Tiger than it would be in a Bo.
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Which is why I just went in with a PA28-161 for my once a month 400ishNM trip. Yeah 100KTGS with a headwind sucks, but with a mission profile of 97% solo with a bag, it's like a limo in there. I can still pack in the passengers for the one in a million chance of a leisure flight with tanks at the tabs, and it still makes a very comfortable cruiser for one + the significant other with bags for the weekend and the bag seat for stretching room/flight pubs repository. I just completed said X-C and got a tailwind both ways, so for all intent and purposes I flew an Arrow this weekend for the price of fixed prop fixed gear fixed insurance fixed..you get the point. Like hitting the lotto lol. :rofl:

I agree, people tend to overstate their 'mission'. Granted, at the OPs price point, overstating the mission seems not to matter, but for us lowly working stiffs with more talent than money, it pays to undershoot our 'mission' by a good 10%. To each their own of course :)
 
Jim Logajan said:
...Bottom line is that the safety record of the Cirrus has been average - but could have been superb had more pilots deployed the parachute. It appears to be a cultural or ingrained habit to spend too much time trying to save the situation.

According to the article "If just one-third of the fatal accidents had been CAPS saves instead, the Cirrus fatal rate would be well below the GA average, thus delivering the level of safety many thought that Cirrus promised in the first place." The chute is not a passive safety device - so without pilot training and conditioning in its use, it appears it is unable to live up to market expectations.
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Though I despise doing so, I really must very tremulously point out that if the majority of the Cirrus pilots had also used good ADM they'd not have gotten in trouble in the first place and the safety record of the aircraft would have been superb. I tend to think of the "if only they'd used the chute" line of reasoning to be so much wishful thinking. Yes, the parachute works wonders when the wings fall off, but mechanical factors tend to be in the minority in GA accidents.
 
Traket92X said:
What certified plane makers are US owned now?

(I'm not asking that sarcastically.)
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American Champion Aircraft is U.S.-owned, as far as I know. Coincidentially, they are selling the cheapest certified airplane: Champ is listed $109k. The cheapest 172 was $270k, last I checked. What's interesting, the cheapest Cessna, 162, is not certified like Champ (it's produced under ASTM consensus), and yet it's more expensive than Champ - even was more expensive before the recent bump in price to $145k.

P.S. Oh bugger, Champ flies on a Chinese engine TCM O-200-D.

P.P.S. Over the holidays there was a price bump: from 109k to 116k. Still cheaper than 162 but unfortunate.
 
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hindsight2020 said:
Which is why I just went in with a PA28-161 for my once a month 400ishNM trip. Yeah 100KTGS with a headwind sucks, but with a mission profile of 97% solo with a bag, it's like a limo in there. I can still pack in the passengers for the one in a million chance of a leisure flight with tanks at the tabs, and it still makes a very comfortable cruiser for one + the significant other with bags for the weekend and the bag seat for stretching room/flight pubs repository. I just completed said X-C and got a tailwind both ways, so for all intent and purposes I flew an Arrow this weekend for the price of fixed prop fixed gear fixed insurance fixed..you get the point. Like hitting the lotto lol. :rofl:

I agree, people tend to overstate their 'mission'. Granted, at the OPs price point, overstating the mission seems not to matter, but for us lowly working stiffs with more talent than money, it pays to undershoot our 'mission' by a good 10%. To each their own of course :)
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I agree with you and I have a blast traipsing around the southeast in my club's PA-28-161(s).
 
zaitcev said:
P.S. Oh bugger, Champ flies on a Chinese engine TCM O-200-D.
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What's the alternative ? A Lycoming bolted together from parts made in Brasil ? A Rotax from Canada ?
 
zaitcev said:
American Champion Aircraft is U.S.-owned, as far as I know. Coincidentially, they are selling the cheapest certified airplane: Champ is listed $109k. The cheapest 172 was $270k, last I checked. What's interesting, the cheapest Cessna, 162, is not certified like Champ (it's produced under ASTM consensus), and yet it's more expensive than Champ - even was more expensive before the recent bump in price to $145k.

P.S. Oh bugger, Champ flies on a Chinese engine TCM O-200-D.
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Maule is still allegedly a family owned company whose aircraft use Lycomings.
 
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