Philadelphia Crash

Clearance delivery was just before 2200z. Initial altitude was 2,000 feet for a top altitude of FL380. Route was radar vectors to MXE then as filed to PENSY J110 AIR J80 SPI with a final destination of Springfield, MO (SGF)

A PIREP from another aircraft around 2200z. had bases at 400 feet, with tops around 1,200 feet in between layers. There was a lot of precipitation moving through the area along a stationary front and it was unseasonably warm, with forecast freezing levels between 070 and 110, which is well aloft.

Takeoff clearance was just after 2304z from runway 24 (heading 240° magnetic) with a right turn to 290°, no amendment to the initial cleared altitude of 2,000 feet. The takeoff roll was not recorded on ADS-B.

At jut after 2306z, tower handed them off to Philly departure. This was met with a casual readback, did not sound like any stress "...thank you, good day."

The ADS-B track begins at 2306:21, almost the exact time of the reply to the handoff. At this time, the Learjet was in almost imperceptible right turn, climbing rapidly, between 2000 and 3000fpm, at fairly normal groundspeeds of 180-200 knots. But the turn didn’t get much past 250° while at the same time changing to level flight at about 1,600 feet. About the same time it leveled off, it began a slow, arcing turn to the left and accelerating to 200-220 knots before suddenly, rapidly descending to the left.

As reported, the aircraft never checked in with Philly approach.

Here’s the METAR just before and after:

KPNE 312354Z 22009KT 6SM -RA BR OVC007 10/10 A2969 RMK AO2 RAB38 SLP056 P0001 60015 T01000100 10100 20078 58012 $

KPNE 312314Z 25009KT 7SM OVC006 09/09 A2972 RMK AO2 CIG 004V008 T00940094 $

KPNE 312254Z 22009KT 6SM BR OVC004 09/09 A2971 RMK AO2 RAE45 SLP062 P0002 T00890089 $

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How old was this plane, 6 people and medical crap full bag of fuel? A lot of unknown facts only fact known On April 19, 1979, the prototype for the Model 54/55/56 series made its first flight, and on July 7, 1983, a standard production Model 55.
 
brien23 said:
How old was this plane, 6 people and medical crap full bag of fuel? A lot of unknown facts only fact known On April 19, 1979, the prototype for the Model 54/55/56 series made its first flight, and on July 7, 1983, a standard production Model 55.
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Serial 55-032, built in 1982.
 
If properly maintained and inspected calendar years have little to do here. >> I will also add in agreement, the pressurization cycles and other factors enter in.
 
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Kenny Phillips said:
Essentially the worst thing you can imagine:
"Newly confirmed Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy said there were six people aboard the plane. According to a statement from Jet Rescue Air Ambulance, the six included four crew members, a pediatric patient, and the patient's escort.
The pediatric patient was a girl from Mexico who had received treatment at Shriners Children's Hospital Philadelphia, according to Mel Bower, a spokesperson for the hospital. Her treatment had ended and she was on her way home when the plane crashed."
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That makes my heart hurt... poor little girl, will hold mine close tonight. Prayers for the family and everyone involved
 
skyking3286 said:
If properly maintained and inspected calendar years have little to do here.
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I disagree. 43 year old plane along with 43 year old electric wires, control cables, fuel lines, tanks and everything else. Yes some of the above can be inspected some can’t. Deferred maintenance on old planes is a thing.
 
skyking3286 said:
If properly maintained and inspected calendar years have little to do here.
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A jet is not a Cessna 172, years have a lot to do with airworthy condition, engine and airframe cycles. Jets sit on the scrap ramp and not due to properly maintained reasons their just time life. People that work on old jets know that and take more care than new ones, their is a time to retire old Jet airframes..
 
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Den60 said:
I'm talking about icing before takeoff. How long did the aircraft sit before being used again? Yes, just throwing out spit balls. The crew was from Mexico, so likely don't normally look for that on an aircraft before takeoff. Either that, of did they not configure the aircraft properly on takeoff? Again, more spitballs.
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Good thoughts, but contaminated wing or improper flap setting not going to be the issue here.

The airplane wouldn’t have gotten off the ground safely if those were the issues.

I used to be an instructor and an examiner on the LR-60.

I remember hearing things from the -55 guys that uncommanded Thrust Reverser deployments were a problem on that aircraft.
An uncommanded reverser deployment at a high power setting and high pitch attitude would roll that thing over quicker than you can say, “WTF”.
 
skyking3286 said:
If properly maintained and inspected calendar years have little to do here. >> I will also add in agreement, the pressurization cycles and other factors enter in.
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"if properly maintained and inspected" is the trick.
 
The video from the dashcam rules out fuego on the way down, which is just most people not able to identify halo of light effect coming out of the clouds in the low pixel ring camera on IR wavelength, which is what they're referencing. Somebody up thread already posted the dash cam footage. Airplane clean as a dart.

Occam says this one is simple spatial-D LOC in IMC. Verrrrrry common in rapid transitions to IMC on initial climbout, especially with high rate climbers at low altitude. that chandelle like apogeed reversal they did is almost textbook. But I know hearing that is kryptonite to POA, so we'll have to go with *space aliens to keep baby ears from getting umbraged at the no-no of critiquing dead people.


(*catastrophic flight control failure immediately after takeoff, but not a second before or after)
 
hindsight2020 said:
The video from the dashcam rules out fuego on the way down, which is just most people not able to identify halo of light effect coming out of the clouds in the low pixel ring camera on IR wavelength, which is what they're referencing. Somebody up thread already posted the dash cam footage. Airplane clean as a dart.

Occam says this one is simple spatial-D LOC in IMC. Verrrrrry common in rapid transitions to IMC on initial climbout, especially with high rate climbers at low altitude. that chandelle like apogeed reversal they did is almost textbook. But I know hearing that is kryptonite to POA, so we'll have to go with *space aliens to keep baby ears from getting umbraged at the no-no of critiquing dead people.


(*catastrophic flight control failure immediately after takeoff, but not a second before or after)
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I wouldn’t overlook a very fast climb to an initial limit of only 2,000 feet. That quick level off and reduction in power to stay under 200kts, while in IMC, while switching freqs to communicate is a lot of work. All this while your semi-circular canals are busy with what you just did.
 
Flying Keys said:
I wouldn’t overlook a very fast climb to an initial limit of only 2,000 feet. That quick level off and reduction in power to stay under 200kts, while in IMC, while switching freqs to communicate is a lot of work. All this while your semi-circular canals are busy with what you just did.
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That’s my first thought.
 
Fragmentation and blast radii patterns, with the fireball visible in the video, supports a debris field of at least that. The condition of the debris will tell if there is blast or fragmentation damage.
 
Things fly a ways, especially heavy things with inertia. Car cam footage also show metal flying into the air and drifting at impact (those stars you see in the sky). Not to mention bricks from the house. Quarter miles is less than 1100 feet, or 3 or 4 football fields.
 
Another clue....the valve is missing from the O2 bottle....and there are the remains of the motor next to it. When do you suppose that valve broke off?
 
On impact and not before. S2 is possible due to scanner reports, not confirmed as yet.
 
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skyking3286 said:
Things fly a ways, especially heavy things with inertia. Car cam footage also show metal flying into the air and drifting at impact (those stars you see in the sky). Not to mention bricks from the house. Quarter miles is less than 1100 feet, or 3 or 4 football fields.
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1320 ft, ask @Gary Ward
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Yup.....this is interesting. ;)View attachment 137698
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The energy dispersed in that impact was massive. I would have no trouble believing 1/4 mile radius... and if that valve was knocked off a pressurized tank, that missle would go whichever direction it was pointed.

With that said, the tank and the other object (motor?) beside it... might be a different thing altogether.
 
How are these transports set up?
Any chance of cg shift to the rear from unsecured equip (or the patient) caused a sudden stall on climbout?
 
WBI Flyer said:
The energy dispersed in that impact was massive. I would have no trouble believing 1/4 mile radius... and if that valve was knocked off a pressurized tank, that missle would go whichever direction it was pointed.

With that said, the tank and the other object (motor?) beside it... might be a different thing altogether.
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that's a big clue for me.....says that tank lost the valve prior to impact.
 
eman1200 said:
I'm not following your logic of why it may have blown before impact
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If the valve broke at impact it would likely not land or be near the rest of the impact debris. The pressure inside of the bottle would have propelled it away from the scene. Unless....that bottle was empty.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
If the valve broke at impact it would likely not land or be near the rest of the impact debris. The pressure inside of the bottle would have propelled it away from the scene. Unless....that bottle was empty.
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it MAY have propelled it away. it also just as likely may not have. it's also possible it could have been an empty tank. lotta possibilities. those things don't have tail fins on them.

 
So is the Mexican Transportation Safety Board assisting in the investigation?
 
Juan's channel said the Lear was 44 years old! Sorry but outside of life and death I wouldn't fly in a 44 old Lear maintenance or no maintenance.

My airport has a guy flying a part 135 65 year old Aztec to the Bahamas. A aircraft model that hasn't been built in decades with little to none factory support or parts availability. It seems ridiculous that such old planes are still in use for the simple reason that their are no new replacements that are financially viable.

My son at the fight school is flying C172's that are as old as 45 years old. Myself learned to fly C150's that at the time were 2 years old and probably 200-300hours on the hobbs. Sad but here we are.

Now don't take this wrong in that I have no problem flying old planes and had a 50 year old C182 but for the general public in for hire flights it's a disservice to the public.
 
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