Peth tests

N

Nobody

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Are peth tests at the discretion of the Hims AME or can the Faa ask for them when you have an SI?
 
The faa can specify them in a SI. They are administered by your AME, who may sub contract that to a third party.

Your AME can ask for any test really, at his discretion.

If you sign an adjunct contract with an employer, they may be able require one. Why unions allow this I cannot fathom.

Furthermore, airlines usually do this by DIRECTING your AME to require one. This is patently illegal, but explicitly condoned by the faa. This allows them to use it against your job and your medical. Again, why unions allow this I don’t know.

Spoiler alert, I actually do… it’s pretty obvious.
 
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Although if it goes to FAA decision with an external toxicology consult the external consultants all say you can't know if the guy isn't drinking, without BLOOD PETH (not fingerspot).
 
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Shows how stupid they are… as it’s as well known for false negatives as false positives.
 
Tools said:
Shows how stupid they are… as it’s as well known for false negatives as false positives.
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Well..one runs the risk of saying the guy with a PhD and expert in perhaps 400 litigations is stupid…..and so are the judges….sigh.
 
bbchien said:
Well..one runs the risk of saying the guy with a PhD and expert in perhaps 400 litigations is stupid…..and so are the judges….sigh.
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Very plausible. Heck, there are still a score of states that allow lie detector evidence. And in almost every case with an expert, there's another expert saying he's wrong.
 
Not in this case. There are several very well qualified consultants. It would be a fool to try to impune six of them and so continual complaining simply discredits the complainer.

Yes, every tool has false postiives and false negatives. If the chemistry is cast into doubt, then what counts is the QUALITY of the recovery as etermined by teh
AA sponsor's testimony
Chief pilt
Peer pilot
HMS Psychiatrist
HIMS AME.

I have a guy who has three postiives but we kept him in the air. And I just met his Peer pilot, Today.
Continued bit_hing and moaning is not useful.
 
Continued use of a test has had THREE false positives…? Did I read that right?
 
bbchien said:
Not in this case. There are several very well qualified consultants. It would be a fool to try to impune six of them and so continual complaining simply discredits the complainer.

Yes, every tool has false postiives and false negatives. If the chemistry is cast into doubt, then what counts is the QUALITY of the recovery as etermined by teh
AA sponsor's testimony
Chief pilt
Peer pilot
HMS Psychiatrist
HIMS AME.

I have a guy who has three postiives but we kept him in the air. And I just met his Peer pilot, Today.
Continued bit_hing and moaning is not useful.
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I am very curious what the details of the three positives are. Was there any explanation? How many tests has this person had, and out of those there are three positives?
 
Tools said:
Continued use of a test has had THREE false positives…? Did I read that right?
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No you misread.

He was a dumb -arse. It took him years to figure out (despite my instruction), No Scope, no Listerine, no hand sanitizer, no Vanilla extract in his eggs (it's solvated in Alcohol, pure ethyl, you see) and on and on he went. what matters as much when the issue of drinking is in doubt, is the quality of the recovery. A guy who shows bad attitude and resentment, and isn't recognizing of the "second chance" given him, is ejected and gets to ride the bus.
 
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bbchien said:
It took him years to figure out (despite my instruction), No Scope, no Listerine, no hand sanitizer, no Vanilla extract in his eggs (it's solvated in Alcohol, pure ethyl, you see) and on and on he went.
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If the purpose of the test is to detect if someone is drinking/intentionally consuming alcohol/succumbing to addiction, those would seem to be false positives. If the purpose of the test is to determine fealty to an arbitrary set of rules, then it possibly works as intended.
 
The agency is not going to allow testing to be negated by some fool ass getting ETOH from nyquil or from other environmental source, incidentally. EVERY HIMS candidate gets this lecture.

To get a second chance you need to defend your pee.
If you are up for a weed violation, if someone is smoking you leave the room.
You never eat brownies from an unknown source.

To get a second chance, you avoid fancy restaurants with wine reduction sauces ("oh but that's unfair!")....

Bottom line: They have something YOU want (a medical). You jump through the hoops to get is and "quitcher bitchin". Try to remember you were the one with the DUI, not the agency.

And Lindberg, the purpose of the test is for you to be able to qualify for that something you want. If yer' bitching (and one particularly prominent guy on this thread continually ******* even years later) it calls into question your "peace". So win the recertification and move on...or don't bother because YOU ARE TOO MUCH WORK.

B
 
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bbchien said:
The agency is not going to allow testing to be negated by so fool ass getting ETOH from nyquil or from incidentally. EVERY HIMS candidate gets this lecture.

To get a second chance you need to defend your pee.
If you are up for a weed violation, if someone is smoking you leave the room.
You never eat brownies from an unknown source.

To get a second chance, you avoid fancy restraurants with wine reduction sauces ("oh but that's unfair!")....

Bottom line: They have something YOU want (a medical). You jump through the hoops to get is and "quitcher bitchin". Try to remember you were the one with the DUI, not the agnecy.

And Lindberg, the purpose of the test is for you to be able to qualify for that something you want. If yer' bitching (and one particularly prominent guy on this thread continaully ******* even years later) it calls into question your "peace". So win the recertification and move on...or don't bother becauase YOU ARE TOO MUCH WORK.

B
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I don't know what's unfair. But I know that not only can I, and most pilots, gargle with Scope or Listerine, use hand sanitizer, and put vanilla in my eggs, I can drink as much damn Scotch as I want, all while jumping through zero hoops for the FAA. Not only that, but I can almost guarantee there are alcoholic pilots out there doing the same, and jumping through zero hoops because they've managed to avoid a DUI. My parents raised me on the mantra that life is not fair. Which is true. But the government must be. And not arbitrary or capricious. It seems this system isn't great.
 
Wasn’t it nazi germany that exterminated individualism due to medical conditions or put those that were under the radar into hiding?
 
Lindberg said:
I don't know what's unfair. But I know that not only can I, and most pilots, gargle with Scope or Listerine, use hand sanitizer, and put vanilla in my eggs, I can drink as much damn Scotch as I want, all while jumping through zero hoops for the FAA. Not only that, but I can almost guarantee there are alcoholic pilots out there doing the same, and jumping through zero hoops because they've managed to avoid a DUI. My parents raised me on the mantra that life is not fair. Which is true. But the government must be. And not arbitrary or capricious. It seems this system isn't great.
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So I will ask the same question that Kevin McCarthy apparently posed to one of his caucus: "Well, what would you propose instead?" (and that is the body that demands, and empowers HIMS).

The person subjected to all this GOT THE BIG TOLERANT 0.20 or more DUI (or two or three DUIs) and didn't have the sense remaining, to NOT OPERATE IN PUBLIC. So we know he drinks a heckofalot to operate a motor vehicle with that blood level. Would you propose Monitoring every pilot equally? Life is not fair. Be careful for what you request.

What you have to do BECAUSE YOU got a DUI (wet reckless-etc-"documented public behavior), and YOU want a second chance...you have to do to get considered. Be GRATEFUL and at PEACE for the second chance.

Others (no DUI, no disorderly, no OWI) can drink at home all they want as the definition of abuse includes "use of alcohol or substance in a situation that could create a danger". YOU at least have the commons sense to remain at home and not venture out.

The guy with the DUI- NOT SO MUCH.
Are you willing to put up with a captain who has to take a nip to keep his BAC at a level at which he is competent to operate?


And I have nothing to say to Cowboy Jake. We're attempting to have an intelligent discussion here not to post "Straw men".
 
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Are there any other medical professionals who view a traffic ticket written by a non college educated cop as a diagnosis?

If the “doctors” at the FAA are so sure why not officially diagnose the airmen with their MD and not hiding under the skirt of the state?

It is very hard to take someone serious who is unwilling to have skin in the game, and it’s a little hard to fully listen to someone who profits off the HIMS thing

Posted anon for obvious reasons
 
I’ve been told by my HIMS ame, the company that schedules my random drug testing, the faa and the admins of a major airline that it’s not possible to test positive on peth from incidental exposure like mouth wash, hand sanitizer and alcohol in food. I was specifically told the only way to come up positive on peth is if you were binge drinking and or your bac went over 0.08. I don’t know what the truth is but I do know the faa is prone to lying and they lack transparency. I bet if you administered a peth test to every part 121 pilot over 40% would fail it.
 
...and I suppose it's all BS why we all coach the candidates, as to avoiding mouthwash, sanitizer, alcohol solvents, Vicks vapo rub....you get positive by inhalation, wine reduction sauce, paint thinner.

"But I don't drink"
That that is why there is testing.
"CAN you substantiate that aassertion?"
"BUT THE TEST IS WRONG".
(I am so tired of hearing that B.S.)

And that is why we take testing seriously and recovery and peace, equally so.
An addict WILL IN FACT do whatever is necessary to get the substance, and deny that he is doing so, and to declare "the test is incorrect!". And to that, what is the FIRST THING one sez at an AA meeting? or can you even remember?

An addict will display no gratitude for the second chance. So George, believe what you wish.

I am so DONE here.
"Fill the squares boys, or you won't even get consideration....."
 
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bbchien said:
...and I suppose it's all BS why we all coach the candidates, as to avoiding mouthwash, sanitizer, alcohol solvents, Vicks vapo rub....you get positive by inhalation, wine reduction sauce, paint thinner.
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Yes, it is BS. Good to see you realize that. These things don’t make you positive. False positives occur for OTHER reasons (mostly preanalytical) and then are incorrectly attributed to these things (making it ALSO post analytical flawed).

Furthermore, look up the typical addiction expert’s definition of relapse… drinking for euphoric effect. Yet the thinking is guard your pee, rather than look for relapse. And you say REAL recovery is more than not drinking. Well, real PROGRAMS look for relapse rather than make you an expert on “guarding your pee”, and managing your creatinine… geesh.

Relying on this testing shows how poorly run HIMS is. It’s less than worthless.
 
bbchien said:
I am so DONE here.
"Fill the squares boys, or you won't even get consideration....."
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Oh, I misunderstood, I thought you said the faa wanted REAL recovery, not just fill the squares. My bad….
 
The first thing I say at an AA meeting is my NAME. I'm a person, first, not something sub-human or a condition.
One of the things we humans are capable of is rational thought and questioning if something makes sense. Doesn't make me any less recovered.
 
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