Personal Locator Beacon

saracelica

saracelica

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saracelica
My husband and I are both pilots. So it gets tricky finding something fun to get each other for Christmas/birthdays.

Thoughts on the Personal Locator Beacon? Saw couple people were selling theirs last year. Are they helpful or should we both just be sure our cellphones are charged fully?
 
saracelica said:
My husband and I are both pilots. So it gets tricky finding something fun to get each other for Christmas/birthdays.

Thoughts on the Personal Locator Beacon? Saw couple people were selling theirs last year. Are they helpful or should we both just be sure our cellphones are charged fully?
Click to expand...


I wondering the same about these.
 
I bought a McMurdo about three years ago. The only thing I can say is that's it's kind of tough to get a new $289 toy that you can't play with when you take it out of the box.

The cellphone is in my repertoire of equipment and the PLB is reserved for last resort but, at least out here in the West, it is extremely likely that you would end up in a place where there are no bars on your cellphone.

The other point is that I carry the PLB on my person when flying. The McMurdo is good in this regard as it will actually fit in in your pants pocket but I wear a lightweight fishing vest with a few other odds and ends in the pockets. One needs to be aware that even the simplest airplane can, within a matter of a few minutes, take you to a place relatively far from any road or other convenience of civilization and the old standard 121.5 ELT's are not much of a guarantee you'll be found.
 
SPOT works well.

http://www.findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=101

You can send emails to anyone and let them know you are okay in route, and when you land. You can ask for help from people without calling the rescue people, and you can hit 911 and bring all responders asap in an emergency.

You can also track your progress as you fly and others can long on and see hoe you are doing.

As a test for VAF 10 years ago I pushed the 911 button to see what would happen. My cell phone rang within 1.5 minutes. They call you first, then go to GQ ( general quarters) if they can't raise you. Very impressive system.
 
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Silvaire - what other sort of things do you put in your fishing vest? What do you consider odds/ends. I have a granola bar in my headset bag...originally my CFI laughed at me for it being there and then I said "If something happens at least I won't be hungry right away" He thought it was "genius" :)
 
Saracelia: There are a lot of pockets in your standard fishing vest so it would be easy to get carried away. My philosophy is towards being found rather than any long term survival aspect so along with the PLB I have a Leatherman Multitool, a signal mirror, Magnesium firestarter, LED flashlight, whistle, small first aid kit and the small Vertex VHF handheld (which is the biggest thing)

If you load it up with too much stuff and it gets heavy you won't wear it so that defeats the purpose.

As mentioned above the SPOT is another alternative and something that you can actually play with when you get it but be aware that it will cost you more than double what a PLB would.
 
Surely one of these will work:

Radio 121.5
Transponder 7700
Cell phone
Emergency locator transmitter
Personal Locator Beacon

Yes I have PLB and it is good for 5 years before the battery has to be factory replaced. Seems a good idea if you fly in wild areas.
 
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saracelica said:
Silvaire - what other sort of things do you put in your fishing vest? What do you consider odds/ends. I have a granola bar in my headset bag...originally my CFI laughed at me for it being there and then I said "If something happens at least I won't be hungry right away" He thought it was "genius" :)
Click to expand...

This is what you should carry in a survival vest every time you embark on a XC flight ( "dress for egress" - the survival gear won't help you if it sinks to the bottom of the sea or burns with the aircraft...)

1. PLB ( the most reliable "life insurance" you can buy...by the way, don't count on your 121.5 ELT - it's useless and not satellite monitored )

2. Fire-Steel ( fire-starter ) + BIC lighter in a waterproof box + magnesium fire-starter ( fire starting is essential for survival and signalling - and the items are small, light and cheap )

3. Survival sleeping bag ( at least 2 - they easily fit in a pant cargo pocket )

4. Reliable and sturdy knife + pocket sharpener

5. Signal mirror

6. Large black garbage bags ( at least 3 - good for water collection / shelter )

7. Water canteen with at least 2 liters of water

8. Reliable LED flashlight + spare batteries

9. Professional first aid kit ( including tourniquet / shears / compression bandage / surgical tape / sling / aspirine )

10. Light colored hat ( large brim )

11. Bandana

12. Water purification straw

13. Compact fishing kit ( in small altoid tin box )

14. 50ft of nylon paracord

15. Survival whistle ( storm, Fox 40 )

You can buy ALL the above items for less than $ 500.00 - it might be the best investment you ever made if you get into a survival situation...
 
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tinerj said:
Surely one of these will work:

Radio 121.5
Transponder 7700
Cell phone
Emergency locator transmitter
Personal Locator Beacon

Yes I have PLB and it is good for 5 years before the battery has to be factory replaced. Seems a good idea if you fly in wild areas.
Click to expand...

Your PLB is probably the ONLY reliable piece of equipment from the list you mentionned...

1. Radio ? There are good chances it will be broken after the crash or will sink with the aircraft - or will be out of range...

2. Transponder ? Ditto...( same as above )

3. Cellphone ? Yeah right...( try to get a signal in a rural or remote area )

4. ELT ? Unless it's a newer model ( 406 MHz ) it will probably be useless ( broken antenna ) - the 121.5 MHz frequency is not satellite monitored anymore...
 
I was amazed at how many survival kits, and list of survival items to pack, list fire starter and fishing hooks, but don't mention a metal cup or pot to cook stuff in.
 
I own a 406 PLB and carry it around in the side pocket of the airplane. If I know I will be riding a ATV in a remote area I take it with me. When I am flying over water I wear it around my neck (lanyard). I think they are a good idea. I was flying over the Caribbean in January. My passenger had a Spot transmitting our position. Unfortunately, it stopped transmitting for a while and we did not realize it. His son saw we had stopped short of land and became very concerned. He called the FAA and they were able to determine that we had landed in the Dominican Republic and our plan had been closed. Either system will get you noticed. I like the 406 personally but the Spot keeps you in touch with your family.
 
Here's a personal example of how we can easily deceive ourselves:

My brother and I went to a Maule fly-in up in Montana one summer. We were equipped with practically every survival piece of kit you could imagine. So we get there and set up camp and spend a lazy afternoon under the wing in lawn chairs eating lunch and drinking iced tea. As late afternoon came we decided to do a sight seeing trip through Glacier National Park. It was a gorgeous summer day as we flew up the western approach and over the pass where the "Going to the Sun" highway crosses. We cruised south on the eastern side and came across one of the back country USFS strips, I think it was Spotted Bear, and my brother said "Hey, wanna land there?"

It was then that I suddenly realized something. We were in shorts and T-shirts and all (and I mean ALL) of our gear was sitting on the ground back at camp. If we had landed at Spotted Bear and the slightest mishap were to occur (busted tailwheel, engine wouldn't restart) we'd have to spend an extremely uncomfortable night there.

So we headed back - lesson learned and disaster averted.
 
Geico266 said:
SPOT works well.

http://www.findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=101

You can send emails to anyone and let them know you are okay in route, and when you land. You can ask for help from people without calling the rescue people, and you can hit 911 and bring all responders asap in an emergency.

You can also track your progress as you fly and others can long on and see hoe you are doing.

As a test for VAF 10 years ago I pushed the 911 button to see what would happen. My cell phone rang within 1.5 minutes. They call you first, then go to GQ ( general quarters) if they can't raise you. Very impressive system.
Click to expand...

SPOT also works very well at cutting out in the middle of nowhere and getting friends and family members all upset when there's nothing wrong.

The ONLY thing that reliably starts the ONLY worldwide SAR system, including that lone system which is used across the US, is a 406 device.
 
Sara

Your husband is very lucky to have a thoughtful wife like you. All that I get for Xmas is a pack of Fruit of the Loom underwear. How about a passionate night for his birthday?

José
 
saracelica said:
My husband and I are both pilots.
Click to expand...

Most of us are still slobbering over that comment alone.

Shoot, I can't get my wife to fly with me, much less take up flying for herself.
 
tinerj said:
I was amazed at how many survival kits, and list of survival items to pack, list fire starter and fishing hooks, but don't mention a metal cup or pot to cook stuff in.
Click to expand...

It's always a good idea to carry a small stainless utensil ( mess tin ) you can cook with in your flight bag or in a separate bag...not very practical to carry in a survival vest though...

There are many ways to cook fish...it can be hanged on a stick over a fire, cooked on hot stones, etc....
 
Silvaire said:
As mentioned above the SPOT is another alternative and something that you can actually play with when you get it but be aware that it will cost you more than double what a PLB would.
Click to expand...

Not true... SPOT costs less than $100 and basic service is $100 year. $50 extra if you want tracking. Battery cost is negligible.

Last time I looked, PLB batteries, which need replacing periodically, were hundreds (if you can find them).

Plus, the SPOT is something you can actually use, every day. Great for family to follow along. Plus, while tracking, there's no "activation" necessary...

Don't misunderstand...PLB/EPirb are great... but you can actually USE the SPOt... you hope you never have to use the PLB.
 
Replacing the PLB battery is $40 and shipping back to the maker (at least for mine).

I have a 406 unit with GPS - An ACR Aqualink. I have it in my flight bag. I put it in my SAR vest if I'm flying over water.

I got it as opposed to SPOT because I wanted something that was designed for SAR, that notifies the AFRCC, and is built robustly.

It, like many other things in my survival gear, is something I never hope to use. But I'm glad that I have it.
 
Henning said:
SPOT also works very well at cutting out in the middle of nowhere and getting friends and family members all upset when there's nothing wrong.

The ONLY thing that reliably starts the ONLY worldwide SAR system, including that lone system which is used across the US, is a 406 device.
Click to expand...

Never had issues with mine. Keep fresh lithium batteries in it? :dunno:
 
Geico266 said:
Never had issues with mine. Keep fresh lithium batteries in it? :dunno:
Click to expand...

It's Global Star's network problems, keep using it enough and it will happen to you. I won't even take a Global Star phone offshore, it's not worth the bother. If we don't have full V-SAT broadband, they can get an Irridium or INMARSAT choice or just get a couple Ham/SSB rigs.

Besides which, there is absolutely no link between the SPOT and COPASS/SARSAT. These are not devices meant to replace each other, however there is nothing wrong with augmenting a 406 device with a SPOT. I would advise anyone tracking me with one to not be concerned when it drops off the face of the earth and if something happens, they'll be notified by SAR calling in on my 406 beacon. If you don't get a call, don't start worrying too quick. Likely you'll hear from me in the expected time frame. I've had crew who ran with SPOTs for a while, you can do some fun things with it, in the long run it wasn't worth keeping up on. I guess that's a lot to do with Facebook, Skype and broadband satellite links.
 
Globalstar's satellite coverage problem never affected the simplex side of their business. Yes, it really screwed up their SatPhones, but did NOT affect SPOT. FWIW, they just got their last batch of replacement satellites up and should have great coverage soon.
 
Armageddon Aviator said:
This is what you should carry in a survival vest every time you embark on a XC flight ( "dress for egress" - the survival gear won't help you if it sinks to the bottom of the sea or burns with the aircraft...)

1. PLB ( the most reliable "life insurance" you can buy...by the way, don't count on your 121.5 ELT - it's useless and not satellite monitored )

2. Fire-Steel ( fire-starter ) + BIC lighter in a waterproof box + magnesium fire-starter ( fire starting is essential for survival and signalling - and the items are small, light and cheap )

3. Survival sleeping bag ( at least 2 - they easily fit in a pant cargo pocket )

4. Reliable and sturdy knife + pocket sharpener

5. Signal mirror

6. Large black garbage bags ( at least 3 - good for water collection / shelter )

7. Water canteen with at least 2 liters of water

8. Reliable LED flashlight + spare batteries

9. Professional first aid kit ( including tourniquet / shears / compression bandage / surgical tape / sling / aspirine )

10. Light colored hat ( large brim )

11. Bandana

12. Water purification straw

13. Compact fishing kit ( in small altoid tin box )

14. 50ft of nylon paracord

15. Survival whistle ( storm, Fox 40 )

You can buy ALL the above items for less than $ 500.00 - it might be the best investment you ever made if you get into a survival situation...
Click to expand...

I also like to fly with a friend that is a Paramedic:wink2:
 
Gerhardt said:
Most of us are still slobbering over that comment alone.

Shoot, I can't get my wife to fly with me, much less take up flying for herself.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Bug bit pretty hard when I got my first flight in the Warrior with my anal retentive husband. I believe "Geez I could do this if he can" got put in my head.

So I guess now the question is the STAR or the PLB, right?
 
A PLB is a Nice Thing To Have. In a significant fraction of aircraft accidents, the ELT isn't heard. If the reason is crash severity you're not likely to be around to trigger your PLB either, but if the ELT fails for other reasons (or it is on 121.5) the PLB is a nice backup.

Don't expect your cell phone to work unless you're near a major highway or near a town.

The Spot is a great toy, but it is not TSO'd. It is a piece of consumer electronics and they have already recalled them once or twice. Will it work when wet and cold or after some kind of impact? Who knows?

Spot's connection to the SARSAT system is informal. Their control center guys are supposed to contact somebody when you signal an emergency. Will that happen promptly? Who knows? Will the AFRCC take the Spot emergency as seriously as an ELT signal? It probably depends on how many false and trivial SPOT alarm calls they've had to handle. In the long run, too, a PLB is cheaper.
 
Henning said:
It's Global Star's network problems, keep using it enough and it will happen to you. I won't even take a Global Star phone offshore, it's not worth the bother. If we don't have full V-SAT broadband, they can get an Irridium or INMARSAT choice or just get a couple Ham/SSB rigs.

Besides which, there is absolutely no link between the SPOT and COPASS/SARSAT. These are not devices meant to replace each other, however there is nothing wrong with augmenting a 406 device with a SPOT. I would advise anyone tracking me with one to not be concerned when it drops off the face of the earth and if something happens, they'll be notified by SAR calling in on my 406 beacon. If you don't get a call, don't start worrying too quick. Likely you'll hear from me in the expected time frame. I've had crew who ran with SPOTs for a while, you can do some fun things with it, in the long run it wasn't worth keeping up on. I guess that's a lot to do with Facebook, Skype and broadband satellite links.
Click to expand...

I'm listening, but I've carried SPOT fopr 10 years with never a hickup. I don't know the system they use at all. All I know is it works. We have seen when I press "Okay" it only transmits 1 email and it some times sends 3. It must have a clear view of the sky. Strapping it to your chest in the plane might not be a good idea. :dunno:
 
CT4ME said:
Not true... SPOT costs less than $100 and basic service is $100 year. $50 extra if you want tracking. Battery cost is negligible...
Click to expand...

PLB - $289 over 5 years

SPOT - $100 + $150/yr for 5 years = $850

So yes it is more than twice the cost of a PLB, in fact it's almost 3x the cost.
 
I'd recommend the PLB. But for messaging/position updates you may also want to check into the DeLorme inReach. It uses Iridium and is generally considered a bit more reliable than some of the other systems.
 
FWIW, if your thing is that you like to send constant "ALERT - I'm okay" messages or a breadcrumb trail to folks at home the new PLB's have the ability to use GPS Tracklog which is a service that uses the test function of the PLB to relay messages and position information to whomever you want. As with SPOT it's a subscription service but the cost is only $40 to $60 per year.
 
The LAST thing I want is people I know tracking my movements.
 
Henning said:
SPOT also works very well at cutting out in the middle of nowhere and getting friends and family members all upset when there's nothing wrong.

The ONLY thing that reliably starts the ONLY worldwide SAR system, including that lone system which is used across the US, is a 406 device.
Click to expand...

As one who is on the answering end of the SPOT or COSPAS/SARSAT phone call, if it were MY life on the line? SPOT would be left at home, or better yet, left at the store.

SPOT is great for the whiz bang stuff, but nothing beats the 406.

This one is on my list:

http://www.acrartex.com/products/catalog/personal-locator-beacons/aqualink-plb/

This thing doesn't become a door stop if you don't pony up the yearly subscription fee. Last time we got a call from SPOT, I had a nice 30 minute conversation with them. Issue was, they got one proper signal from the users unit. They got two more after that, but it did not have GPS with it.

So we didn't know if the guy was moving or disabled. And with the GPS error, and only one signal, we couldn't tell if he was on the ridge of the glacier, or 300' to the west, which would put him 700' down the side (in a neighboring county).

When he asked about the weather and I mentioned that the Cascades were in the middle of a nasty late spring snow storm, he became pretty forthcoming about the limitations on the unit. Mainly that if there was thick cloud coverage, they wouldn't get a signal.

So, keep that in mind if its ugly out when you press that help button. 5 watts on the ACR vs 400 milliwatts on the SPOT.


OK. Now that I've posted this, I felt I shouldn't throw the SPOT completely under the bus. We have have several successful rescues with the SPOT. And the tracking and "I'm OK" thing is kinda cool, I just have a difficult time putting my complete trust in it.
 
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I picked up the ResQLink (non-marine) version when it went on sale ($50 rebate) last spring. The specials are on right now

http://www.acrartex.com/landing/2013springpromo/

Cash back for the higher-end models, a nice little emergency pack with the ResQLink. I bought a clear water resistant case from REI (with my yearly rebate) where I keep the PLB when not flying to make sure it doesn't go off by accident.

I teach an intro to aviation to middle school and early high-school and like to let them try out all sorts of gear (pulse ox, headsets, compass, GPS, etc). The PLB, on the other hand, they get to view but are NEVER allowed to take it out of the case. They still think it's interesting.
 
and if you don't require a marine unit (one that floats and can endure extended submersion) I recommend the McMurdo FastFind. It's a unit that truly can be carried comfortably in your pocket.

In my opinion the "I'm okay" message and tracking features of SPOT are over rated novelties and marketing has led both into a realm of over-use. For one thing, if you are flying you need to stop for gas periodically and a simple text from a cellphone can assure your "tracker" that you are on schedule. The second point is that if you are constantly sending these "OK" messages and Google Map bread crumb trails it's possible to inadvertently create a false alarm when the unit goes down for any reason whatsoever.

In contrast the PLB is a tool with a specific function, it's not a gadget to be played with. Even in an emergency you should exhaust all other options such as cellphone or walking to the nearby farmhouse prior to activating the PLB. It's the last option and as such it's something that you want the utmost reliability from.
 
AdamZ said:
I also like to fly with a friend that is a Paramedic:wink2:
Click to expand...

With the current "zero tolerance" attitude of the FAA, I believe that flying with a lawyer is definitely more practical... :wink2:
 
Silvaire said:
FWIW, if your thing is that you like to send constant "ALERT - I'm okay" messages or a breadcrumb trail to folks at home the new PLB's have the ability to use GPS Tracklog which is a service that uses the test function of the PLB to relay messages and position information to whomever you want. As with SPOT it's a subscription service but the cost is only $40 to $60 per year.
Click to expand...

The units that allow messaging are $400-$500. The $40 sub is just for testing (which PLBs didn't allow until just recently) and the "I'm OK" service is $60/yr, but isn't really practical as each message eats up the battery. The batteries must be replaced by a service center or the factory, and is expensive enough nobody will tell you how much it is. Several PLB forums recommend just throwing them away after 5 years, as the new ones will be better and smaller.

Comparing PLBs and SPOTs are like apples and oranges. Different primary missions, with some overlap. In a perfect World, I'd carry both... and a SatPhone, Cell Phone, handheld radio, matches, strobe, mirror....
 
CT4ME said:
...The $40 sub is just for testing (which PLBs didn't allow until just recently)....
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by that as PLB's have always had a test function that is confirmed on the unit unless you are referring to a service that will send you an email to confirm that the test signal was received - similar to that which is offered for 406 MHz ELT's but really is not required.

I agree that test function usage affects battery life and shouldn't be utilized except in a circumstance where you are overdue or missing and you want to relay that you are OK. It's not something that would be used constantly every 15 minutes like a SPOT.

Yes, the comparison is apples to oranges and if you want to pay for it there's nothing wrong with carrying a SPOT and using it in that manner but I just want to make it clear that I don't consider the SPOT to be a viable alternative to a PLB and I don't think it should be marketed as such.
 
Are there any PLBs that are impact activated ?
 
Tom-D said:
Are there any PLBs that are impact activated ?
Click to expand...

Not that I know of, that is the rub. There is a lot of internet hate for the spot, I don't doubt PLBs going straight to the source are better. However I went with spot for the breadcrumb find the body feature. I don't harbor any illusions of being picked up in the golden hour. Collect the corpse, collect the insurance.
Here is why you should have something, he had a cell phone based tracking device for live broadcasting the race, that was out of range, no spot or plb.
 
PLB's are manually activated, they are not a substitute for an ELT but a good supplement, especially if all you have is a 121.5 ELT. But yes, you have to be conscious to turn it on.

I don't think there is "internet hate" for SPOT. I'm just pointing out a few of the misconceptions. For instance, from this thread we see that there are SPOT owners who don't know that it cost 3x what a PLB would cost over a 6 year period.
 
I'd turn on my PLB on the way down, and not wait until after the crash. Same thing if I had an engine failure at altitude and I knew I was landing off airport - I'd activate the airplane ELT manually on the way down if time permitted. If I landed safely and had cell phone service I'd call the AFRCC and tell them to disregard.
 
I won't argue the benefits of a PLB over a SPOT In an emergency I want a PLB that is what the PLB does best. But until I need it the PLB might as well be a Brick as it has no other use, and I don't ever plan to need it.

While I agree it is important to understand the limitations of the SPOT, the incident posted above is the only failure I have heard of one when the 911 button was pressed. And even then It sounds like it narrowed the search area down to within 1000' which is plenty close enough for me. Actually much better than a Non-GPS enabled PLB or 406 elt.

That is an important point in that there are two flavors of PLB, with and without GPS, so it is important to know the limitations of the PLB's as well.

I do realize that the PLB costs less over time than the SPOT due to the annual costs of the SPOT, but the SPOT is used on nearly every flight, where as the PLB will probably never be used, so the SPOT provides a lot more return on investment. The big glaring exception is in the remote chance I have an emergency that requires the PLB, but then the Spot has very good odds of working then too.

It is important to realize that the tracking feature is a low priority feature for the spot and the failure of it to track few points is not grounds to start a search. But it sure is nice when my wife hears that a plane crashed, she can go check the tracking and verify it wasn't me because she can confirm I am still flying. I will admit I have checked a few friends SPOT tracks after hearing about an accident as well. And If I don't show up at the intended time and a search is initiated the bread crumb feature will at least give the a place to start. Neither the ELT or PLB will do this.

I am interested in hearing about any other failures of a SPOT when the 911 button is used.

As with most thing both devices have their pluses and minuses.


Brian
 

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