Personal Aviation Survey for Knowledge Test and Initial Solo

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rowdog_14

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rowdog_14
Hello all,

I am a pilot and flight instructor, but my day job is within Software Development. I transitioned over to Data Analytics and Analytic Automation earlier this year. I have created two aviation related surveys .There are no Personal Identifiable Information items requested. The data I am hoping I can get your help on are with the following topics.

I decided to do a survey on an ongoing topic for personal work develop in an area that I am in outside of work too.

I have included two surveys that have a short set of questions. Should not take long to complete both. Complete as many times as needed for all the Knowledge Test you have taken (Airplane and Helicopter), but only once for each level. For the Initial Solo test please complete only once.
Example: If you took the PAR test 5 times. Only submit one survey and note your last result (Pass/Fail) and the number of times you have taken it.

Thanks so much for your time.

FAA Knowledge Testing Link - https://forms.office.com/r/H0XpXJTuy0
Initial Solo - Airplane Single Engine Link - https://forms.office.com/r/iQpYYjPknQ
 
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There is something wrong with the second link. It seems to want to take you in to Facebook, and it asks you then if you want to leave.
 
Second link goes to Facebook. I didn’t proceed since I don’t trust the link.
 
Clip4 said:
FIFY. I am reasonably certain he didn’t want to include LS.
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Why not? Excluding it can distort the results.

I did SP before PP, and consequently the study time I needed for the PP exam was quite minor. Without that factored in, the study hours for PP would be misleading.

When I started prepping for PP, before doing any study I took a practice test just to see how much I remembered and where I needed to put in some study time. I had a passing score (I think an 85) on that practice test, so the study I needed to do for PP was pretty minimal.

Similar thing for time to solo. I was already legally flying solo and carrying a passenger before starting PP. Time to solo for PP was therefore zero hours. I did my PP training and checkride in the same LSA I used for SP, so again the prep I needed was pretty minimal, mostly just night work.
 
Sac Arrow said:
There is something wrong with the second link. It seems to want to take you in to Facebook, and it asks you then if you want to leave.
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Not sure the issue. I have only had you and AggieMike88 mention that. I just tried on 6 different devices and all direct me to Microsoft office forms page. Thanks for trying to support.

AggieMike88 said:
Second link goes to Facebook. I didn’t proceed since I don’t trust the link.
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Thanks not sure why the redirect. The links are taking me to Microsoft on all the clicks. Thanks for trying to support.

Half Fast said:
Test codes are missing Sport Pilot.
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Not missing, intentionally did not include.

Rgbeard said:
Not clicking but thanks.
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That is fine. Thanks

Clip4 said:
FIFY. I doubt the LS codes were missing.
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Correct

Half Fast said:
Why not? Excluding it can distort the results.

I did SP before PP, and consequently the study time I needed for the PP exam was quite minor. Without that factored in, the study hours for PP would be misleading.

When I started prepping for PP, before doing any study I took a practice test just to see how much I remembered and where I needed to put in some study time. I had a passing score (I think an 85) on that practice test, so the study I needed to do for PP was pretty minimal.

Similar thing for time to solo. I was already legally flying solo and carrying a passenger before starting PP. Time to solo for PP was therefore zero hours. I did my PP training and checkride in the same LSA I used for SP, so again the prep I needed was pretty minimal, mostly just night work.
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Clip4 said:
FIFY. I doubt the LS codes were missing.
Click to expand...

Intentionally did not include. You have good points but you could also say that a private pilot helicopter pilot test is distorted because they already have knowledge on basic principles and are a private pilot airplane pilot or an instrument pilot taking an IGI test being distorted because they are already an instrument pilot when IGI does not require you to be pilot rated. Again all valid points but this was not really meant to be a catch all for every scenario out there.


Everyone who takes it takes, thank you very much. If you feel uncomfortable that is fine, you do not have to tell me just move past the thread, I will not have any hard feelings. I will share my results in about another week or so, just in case anyone is curious of the results.
 
rowdog_14 said:
Not sure the issue. I have only had you and AggieMike88 mention that. I just tried on 6 different devices and all direct me to Microsoft office forms page. Thanks for trying to support.



Thanks not sure why the redirect. The links are taking me to Microsoft on all the clicks. Thanks for trying to support.



Not missing, intentionally did not include.



That is fine. Thanks



Correct




Intentionally did not include. You have good points but you could also say that a private pilot helicopter pilot test is distorted because they already have knowledge on basic principles and are a private pilot airplane pilot or an instrument pilot taking an IGI test being distorted because they are already an instrument pilot when IGI does not require you to be pilot rated. Again all valid points but this was not really meant to be a catch all for every scenario out there.


Everyone who takes it takes, thank you very much. If you feel uncomfortable that is fine, you do not have to tell me just move past the thread, I will not have any hard feelings. I will share my results in about another week or so, just in case anyone is curious of the results.
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Okay, but you just got some really screwy looking answers from me.....
 
Half Fast said:
Okay, but you just got some really screwy looking answers from me.....
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Thanks, part of analytics is data cleanup. So if data is too crazy looking I throw it out. I am sure yours is ok but I will go through and clean it up. Thanks for taking them.
 
If you inspect your post, you'll see a Facebook URL wrapping the MS Forms URL on the second link. The rest are fine.

Completed one of yours and see the same issues I suffered recently. I used Forms at work and can not recommend it, as making accidental edits was too easy, and it lacked sane field constraints. If you go via some other tool, your analysis will be easier. Good luck either way.
 
Also, your requested format doesn't male sense to me on this question:
Estimate how often weather canceled a flight? (1, 2, 3...)?

Are you saying if it took 25 flights prior to solo, you want the integer of cancels for weather? If so...I think that works if you soloed in the last 6 months. I didn't log cancellations, let alone cancel reasons, so its a bit of wild guess many years later.
 
masloki said:
If you inspect your post, you'll see a Facebook URL wrapping the MS Forms URL on the second link. The rest are fine.

Completed one of yours and see the same issues I suffered recently. I used Forms at work and can not recommend it, as making accidental edits was too easy, and it lacked sane field constraints. If you go via some other tool, your analysis will be easier. Good luck either way.
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Thanks, I copied it direct from an Aviation forum on facebook that I have posted in to save retyping and see the link is wrapped. I deleted that, so no issues now. This has not been an issue until now and it is resolved. I used forms because people are more familiar with office and I felt it would be better that other survey types in that case. I actually use Adobe Analytics and yes there are other tools that are way better than forms. I am not looking for perfection just a quick run of results.

masloki said:
Also, your requested format doesn't male sense to me on this question:
Estimate how often weather canceled a flight? (1, 2, 3...)?

Are you saying if it took 25 flights prior to solo, you want the integer of cancels for weather? If so...I think that works if you soloed in the last 6 months. I didn't log cancellations, let alone cancel reasons, so its a bit of wild guess many years later.
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So for me not to go into analysis paralysis and try to make this perfect and disclosing every single gap in the survey. I have to accept such things as people taking a survey that have possibly not soloed recently and possibly years ago. As far as weather, I had a student where we cancelled almost 10+ flights because of weather. This played a big part in him taking longer to solo. In your example of "25 flights prior to solo"...no, I am gauging if it took you 25 hours to solo not flights. Yes, I want to include how many of potential flights prior to that solo was canceled because of weather.

To make this a more perfect survey. This would be best given to a fresh solo student and even then that could still be open for issues, if the student did not keep up with every single detail of their flight training.
 
rowdog_14 said:
Thanks, part of analytics is data cleanup. So if data is too crazy looking I throw it out. I am sure yours is ok but I will go through and clean it up. Thanks for taking them.
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A better solution would be to ask as part of the survey whether the given number is "initial from zero" or if it is building upon a rating that you already have. Then you could filter for the kind of data that will best help you answer whatever your question is, in an unbiased way.

Going through data and throwing out anything based on "looking crazy" is a good way to arrive at a conclusion that mirrors what you expected the conclusion to be.

Disclaimer: I haven't looked at the survey.
 
kath said:
A better solution would be to ask as part of the survey whether the given number is "initial from zero" or if it is building upon a rating that you already have. Then you could filter for the kind of data that will best help you answer whatever your question is, in an unbiased way.

Going through data and throwing out anything based on "looking crazy" is a good way to arrive at a conclusion that mirrors what you expected the conclusion to be.

Disclaimer: I haven't looked at the survey.
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thanks for the honesty of not looking at the survey and feedback given. I love it .
 
kath said:
A better solution would be to ask as part of the survey whether the given number is "initial from zero" or if it is building upon a rating that you already have. Then you could filter for the kind of data that will best help you answer whatever your question is, in an unbiased way.

Going through data and throwing out anything based on "looking crazy" is a good way to arrive at a conclusion that mirrors what you expected the conclusion to be.

Disclaimer: I haven't looked at the survey.
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Oh and data is not thrown out for the heck of it and data is not literally thrown out. For example I have a question ask what make and model and one person just put PA. That is bad data. Is it PA28/PA32/PA18/PA34...So I can not use that one to see how many hours a person took to solo a certain aircraft but I can use it to help with other variables not related to make/model.

Same for the knowledge test. People have given me a pass but no grade. So I can not include those in certain result questions related to grades. Someone might ask about grades with certain study habits and I have to throw that out for that result but can include with another type of result questions.

I am in no way making the data fit me and what I expect.
 
To what use will the results be put?
 
rowdog_14 said:
Oh and data is not thrown out for the heck of it and data is not literally thrown out...
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OK. So suppose someone reports that they solo'ed in 8 hours. Will you throw that data point out? (Disregard it in the analysis, I mean?)

On the one hand, this might be typical for a person who started out Sport Pilot and then transitioned to PP, and you're not excluding such participants.
On the other hand, I know someone who really did solo in 8 hours from zero. (Which seems nuts to me; I took 26.)
So how will you tell the difference? Relying on your own judgement introduces potential bias, based on your expectation for what is a "normal" solo time. A well-designed survey would allow you to remove the bias and better answer whatever the question is.
 
kath said:
OK. So suppose someone reports that they solo'ed in 8 hours. Will you throw that data point out? (Disregard it in the analysis, I mean?)

On the one hand, this might be typical for a person who started out Sport Pilot and then transitioned to PP, and you're not excluding such participants.
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Might be a lot more than typical for that situation.

I entered zero hours to my PP solo. I was already a SP and flew the same LSA all the way through my PP training. Really, there was no such thing as a separate PP solo. My PP training was mostly just night work and a little more hood time.
 
kath said:
OK. So suppose someone reports that they solo'ed in 8 hours. Will you throw that data point out? (Disregard it in the analysis, I mean?)

On the one hand, this might be typical for a person who started out Sport Pilot and then transitioned to PP, and you're not excluding such participants.
On the other hand, I know someone who really did solo in 8 hours from zero. (Which seems nuts to me; I took 26.)
So how will you tell the difference? Relying on your own judgement introduces potential bias, based on your expectation for what is a "normal" solo time. A well-designed survey would allow you to remove the bias and better answer whatever the question is.
Click to expand...

No, I would not throw that one out. That is fully possible. I was low in solo hours and in total time with my license. The key thing here is what is "normal"? Like you said 8 seems nuts to you but it is not. I soloed in 13 working fulltime, wife and two kids and no prior aviation training. I also was ready for my checkride right at 40 hours under part 61 training. I got my license in 49 hours. Instead of stopping to get it right at 40 I still flew around to stay sharp for my checkride and two I had to actually fly to another airport for my checkride. I have an older gentleman that did not solo until 50 hours. I had another guy landing unassisted in two flights with me but already had about 13 hours with another instructor that would not let him even try and land.

I am willing to build a more robust survey if you want to help. I can reach out to you directly if you want to create a team and include the FAA/AOPA/EAA and other aviation organizations of the such to build it?

Also, I am always learning and if you are into analytics and would like to help me better my analytical skills let me know.

Outside of that I think we can all agree that this is not the best survey nor do I acknowledge it to be.

I thank you for your input.
 
Half Fast said:
Might be a lot more than typical for that situation.

I entered zero hours to my PP solo. I was already a SP and flew the same LSA all the way through my PP training. Really, there was no such thing as a separate PP solo. My PP training was mostly just night work and a little more hood time.
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In your case your initial solo was for you Sports License. In your case yes there is not a "initial solo" when you did you PP training. So you would put your hours for the Sport and the plane it was taken in and any details you remember related to the initial solo. The survey is for "Initial Solo - Airplane Single Engine" which LSA still falls under
 
rowdog_14 said:
In your case your initial solo was for you Sports License. In your case yes there is not a "initial solo" when you did you PP training. So you would put your hours for the Sport and the plane it was taken in and any details you remember related to the initial solo. The survey is for "Initial Solo - Airplane Single Engine" which LSA still falls under
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But you omitted SP from your list of exams. Why would I ignore SP for one of your surveys but use it for the other?

Seems a bit confusing to me.....
 
Suggestions.
First, the knowledge test one:

1) "Setbacks" is one word. And proofread the intro at the top so that it makes grammatical sense.

2) I've taken four different knowledge tests. Am I expected to fill the survey out four times? Or just once, for my favorite exam? First/initial exam? Most recent exam? Clarify, and include Sport Pilot for completeness, since I can't think of a reason your search for setbacks wouldn't include potentially looking into setbacks for SP's.

2a) The description says it's about "initial" knowledge tests, but many of the codes are for things that can't be initial, like Commercial or CFI.*

2b) Given 2a, a useful question to add would be something like: "How many other knowledge tests did you take (and pass) prior to this one?" Select which ones, if the software allows. This will help you sort the SP/PP transition people from the straight-to-PP people, as well as the helicopter<->airplane transitioners, etc. which will let you select relevant data more precisely. There also may be a relationship between taking many tests and doing well on them. Or maybe an inverse relationship, who knows?

2c) *Since there are some edge cases where something like Comm/CFI might be initial, another useful question might be: "Did you acquire a previous pilot certificate in the U.S. military?" and "Did you acquire a previous pilot certificate overseas?"

3) All of rest of the questions have to do with time spent (how many days, how many hours, etc.). But there are plenty of other things besides just time that might be setbacks to success. Money and costs? Community support? Reading skills? Math skills? Consider questions that get to those things somehow. Maybe "What is your highest level of education?" or "Was the $200 for the knowledge test easy to spend?" or "Are you a member of any aviation Internet forums or community groups?" Maybe list some possibilities: PoA, EAA, 99's, etc. "Are there any other aviators in your family?" There are all kinds of interesting things you could look into.
 
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Suggestions for the First Solo one:

1) This one has a much more interesting variety of questions on it, and things are are more likely to be illuminating about the setbacks that students face. You could consider adding some of the questions from suggestion #2b and #3 in my post above, if ya like.

2) A lot of the questions are phrased as "number of flights" canceled for this reason or that reason... A more useful metric might be "percentage of flights" canceled for the various reasons. Because canceling 10 flights means less to someone who took 30 hours to solo than it did to someone who took 10 hours. Also, people who soloed a while ago probably don't remember how many flights were canceled, but are likely to have a general memory sense of what percentage were canceled.

3) Maybe ask for the general geographic area. Mine, for instance, was in Boston in January, and many of my flight cancellations were due to the cold. (Does that count as "weather"?). Make it multiple choice so that it is analyzable. (See below...)

4) The "What type of plane?" question will have more meaningfully-harvestable answers if you make it multiple-choice, and break down planes into categories that would be relevant to analyze, such as:
a) Two-seat nosewheel (such as Cessna 150/152, etc.)
b) Four-seat nosewheel (such as Cessna 172, Piper Cherokee, etc.)
c) High-performance or >4 seat nose wheel (such as Cessna 182, Mooney, Cirrus, Cherokee Six, etc.)
d) Two-seat tailwheel (such as Cessna 140, Piper Cub, Champ, etc.)
e) Four-seat tailwheel (such as Cessna 170, etc.)
...and so on and so on. Make the categories relevant to the analysis. Add "helicopter" and "glider" to the list, because why not? Maybe even "Twin", to again identify edge cases to either include or exclude from the analysis.

Edit: There are some three-seat planes out there... phrase it so that it's clear where those go. "Four (or three) seat..." Yes, I know this seems like pointless chasing edge-cases, but that's what a lot of research is. :)
Edit2: Think about if there are any makes/models that might have a different first solo experience in some meaningful way because of their construction. I'm wondering, for instance, about Ercoupes or canards or things like that. Also, seaplanes.

5) Add a question like "How long did it take to get from your home airport to the practice area?" because if it is 10-15 minutes (like it is here), that time'll add up for a student, and you want to isolate that effect from other effects.

That's all I've got for now... Good luck!
 
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Half Fast said:
But you omitted SP from your list of exams. Why would I ignore SP for one of your surveys but use it for the other?

Seems a bit confusing to me.....
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You are correct I did omit sport from the knowledge test. You are making them inclusive of each other which they are not. Did not mean to make them directly confusing for the body. If it was for you I apologize.
 
kath said:
Suggestions.

First, the knowledge test one:


1) "Setbacks" is one word. And proofread the intro at the top so that it makes grammatical sense.


2) I've taken four different knowledge tests. Am I expected to fill the survey out four times? Or just once, for my favorite exam? First/initial exam? Most recent exam? Clarify, and include Sport Pilot for completeness, since I can't think of a reason your search for setbacks wouldn't include potentially looking into setbacks for SP's.


2a) The description says it's about "initial" knowledge tests, but many of the codes are for things that can't be initial, like Commercial or CFI.*


2b) Given 2a, a useful question to add would be something like: "How many other knowledge tests did you take (and pass) prior to this one?" Select which ones, if the software allows. This will help you sort the SP/PP transition people from the straight-to-PP people, as well as the helicopter<->airplane transitioners, etc. which will let you select relevant data more precisely. There also may be a relationship between taking many tests and doing well on them. Or maybe an inverse relationship, who knows?


2c) *Since there are some edge cases where something like Comm/CFI might be initial, another useful question might be: "Did you acquire a previous pilot certificate in the U.S. military?" and "Did you acquire a previous pilot certificate overseas?"


3) All of rest of the questions have to do with time spent (how many days, how many hours, etc.). But there are plenty of other things besides just time that might be setbacks to success. Money and costs? Community support? Reading skills? Math skills? Consider questions that get to those things somehow. Maybe "What is your highest level of education?" or "Was the $200 for the knowledge test easy to spend?" or "Are you a member of any aviation Internet forums or community groups?" Maybe list some possibilities: PoA, EAA, 99's, etc. "Are there any other aviators in your family?" There are all kinds of interesting things you could look into.
Click to expand...


#1. Noted will do, thanks.

#2. Noted but survey stands as it is with not including SP. I could have created one survey that was dynamic and asked the same questions if a person selected X amount of knowledge test taken. Which then grouped the survey based on each Knowledge test. With this being an off-cuff survey for just pleaser, I saw no need in doing that. Will be happy to work with a bigger group of dedicated individuals to make a robust survey.

#2a. The surveys are "FAA Knowledge Testing Link" and "Initial Solo - Airplane Single Engine Link". They are not inclusive. I went back and note the use of “For the Initial Solo test please complete only once." Which can be causing confusing on mutual inclusion even though they are different test.

That is not in the description of the survey, but I can see the confusion if you take my wording from my post/thread and carry that over to each knowledge test as source of truth.

#2b. Thanks for the feedback. I will keep that in mind. Yes, I agree with the relationship. That was thought of and along with many other scenarios but in staying out of analysis paralysis and trying to make this a quick fun but somewhat enlightening survey, I chose to press forward with what was presented. Still great feedback and thanks

#3. You are correct, the sky is the limit on scenarios. That was thought of but keeping to my previous answer for the reason why…


Thanks for the feedback.
 
rowdog_14 said:
#1. Noted will do, thanks.

#2. Noted but survey stands as it is with not including SP. I could have created one survey that was dynamic and asked the same questions if a person selected X amount of knowledge test taken. Which then grouped the survey based on each Knowledge test. With this being an off-cuff survey for just pleaser, I saw no need in doing that. Will be happy to work with a bigger group of dedicated individuals to make a robust survey.

#2a. The surveys are "FAA Knowledge Testing Link" and "Initial Solo - Airplane Single Engine Link". They are not inclusive. I went back and note the use of “For the Initial Solo test please complete only once." Which can be causing confusing on mutual inclusion even though they are different test.

That is not in the description of the survey, but I can see the confusion if you take my wording from my post/thread and carry that over to each knowledge test as source of truth.

#2b. Thanks for the feedback. I will keep that in mind. Yes, I agree with the relationship. That was thought of and along with many other scenarios but in staying out of analysis paralysis and trying to make this a quick fun but somewhat enlightening survey, I chose to press forward with what was presented. Still great feedback and thanks

#3. You are correct, the sky is the limit on scenarios. That was thought of but keeping to my previous answer for the reason why…


Thanks for the feedback.
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#1. Thanks for the feedback

#2. Your last point is key. How many people really remember the % or #. Unless given right after the student solos and there is proper record keeping of all. Including your suggestion of % is not any more accurate. In this case giving a % or # is still a general memory sense you mention.

#3. That was thought of too, but I did not want to get any deeper than asking the personal questions I asked, especially with me first giving this to a big pilot community in my current City/State. I totally agree with your suggestion. Goes back to my original answer to the limitation of these surveys “I” created.

#4. Goes back to my original answer to the limitation of these surveys “I” created.

#5. That is a great one. Along with did you fly out of a big Class D, Class C or a G airport.

Thanks for your feedback. My offer still stands if you want to travel down that road. If not, your feedback is still noted and I will keep them all in mind when I am approaching any analytical questions during my actual work task.
 
Thanks everyone who has taken the surveys and/or provided input. Currently sitting at 110 survey completions on the knowledge test and 50 on the initial solo one.
 
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