PDA - who makes them anymore?

[flyingcheesehead]

I am not making this up...I have seen brand new iPhones used HEAVILY during the day barely make it to the charger at night.

Use any device "HEAVILY" during the day, and it'll be in the same boat. However, I'm not sure what your definition of "HEAVILY" is - I've used my iPhone to play music for 16 hours, talk on the phone for 4 hours, and do numerous things on the web before killing the battery. And I think that was before I applied the settings mentioned above.

Even Apple admits it and the suggestions to save the battery, ala what was mentioned above, are the "fixes". Of course all of those things are what is touted as the great things about the device, but of course to actually use it for any length of time one has to turn them off.

I think the WiFi asking is the biggest problem, and I find that "feature" to be quite annoying! And while I may use Bluetooth at some point (after I get my Zulus, ya know ) I haven't felt the need yet. I do turn the WiFi on when I actually use it, but that's fairly rare as most of what I do is actually fast enough even on EDGE.

Really, VERY few people would actually need or want all of those things to be on constantly.

 

[jesse]

Use any device "HEAVILY" during the day, and it'll be in the same boat. However, I'm not sure what your definition of "HEAVILY" is - I've used my iPhone to play music for 16 hours, talk on the phone for 4 hours, and do numerous things on the web before killing the battery. And I think that was before I applied the settings mentioned above.

On a 3G there is no way your listening to 16 hours of music and 4 hours of talking. No way at all. I've had two of them -- so its not like mine is bad.

 

[ScottM]

I am not making this up...I have seen brand new iPhones used HEAVILY during the day barely make it to the charger at night.

You said the pda functions wear the battery. What you are now saying sure sounds like you mean the phone functions.

I agree that heavy phone usage will wear the batter down faster than anything else as the transmitter in the phone is the biggest consumer of energy. But heavy pda mode usage, harldly a big energy user on the phone.

 

[jesse]

You said the pda functions wear the battery. What you are now saying sure sounds like you mean the phone functions.

I agree that heavy phone usage will wear the batter down faster than anything else as the transmitter in the phone is the biggest consumer of energy. But heavy pda mode usage, harldly a big energy user on the phone.

Do you have an iPhone Scott? If you use the 3G for a few hours for pretty much any task it'll be dead. Music isn't as bad if the screen is off.

 

[mantakos]

I think a heavy iphone user learns to strategically place chargers in key locations. I have one on my nightstand, another at my desk, and one in my car.

But in the time I've owned it, I think I've only had one or two cases where the phone didn't last the day, and it's rare that I ever bother to charge it other than just overnight.

In other words, in my own usage, the battery life is fine, it does everything I need it to do, I don't modify my usage to preserve battery, but I do charge it nightly.
-harry

 

[Cap'n Jack]

You said the pda functions wear the battery. What you are now saying sure sounds like you mean the phone functions.

I agree that heavy phone usage will wear the batter down faster than anything else as the transmitter in the phone is the biggest consumer of energy. But heavy pda mode usage, harldly a big energy user on the phone.

That pretty much is what I said earlier.

Jason- please bear with me for what sounds like a stoopid question.

Why would a background app use more battery? The CPU/memory is already running. The foreground app may run a bit slower (maybe that is the reason for not allowing programs to run in the background). The CPU and memory are drawing power if they are running anything.

When the phone is in standby (waiting for a call and not actively being used for an app with user input)- a poorly written app can cause problems such as turning on the back light, running the bluetooth all the time, etc- maybe that's where you were coming from?

So, you know that a computing device like the iPhone runs on 1's and 0's, which are "on" and "off". Unlike something like a light switch, the "on" state doesn't use a significant amount of power, it's the switch from off to on or vice versa that uses power. So, if you have an app running in the background flipping these tiny switches, it's going to be using power. Sure, the phone uses a bit of energy waiting for a call, but any additional processing that goes on uses energy, whether it's in the background or not. By automatically killing anything that's not in the foreground, Apple is ensuring that only what you can see can use up your battery. Crummy for certain applications, but it keeps the user in charge.

I'm sure they'll have an ability to do backgrounding eventually, but they won't do it until they can ensure a seamless user experience. Look how long it took them to do copy and paste - But they got it right. The good news is that so far, none of the iPhone/iPod Touch devices have been obsoleted - I'm running the latest iPhone OS on the iPhone that I got the first week they were out (July 2007), and it now has MUCH more capability than it did then, for no additional cost.

The phone, bluetooth, and WiFi are probably the biggest power hogs since they are transmitters. The back light is really bad too. Music probably takes a bit of power for the speakers/headphones too.

Not an iphone, but I get ~24-48 hours of constant use out of a Dell Axim with no Wifi, Bluetooth off. I used to get a month (plus or minus) out of a PalmPilot on NiMH batteries. My main uses are e-books, pocket XL, and address book. The backlight is always on in the Dell if it is actively being used; the Palm had a B/W screen that left the backlight off unless you turned it on.

 

[SCCutler]

I think the iPhone is really cool, but don't understand why Apple could not have made the battery a replaceable one (like in my Treo), so you could carry a charged backup battery with you for use when needed.

 

[Armageddon Aviator]

My 2 cents on PDA's...

I waited several years before I finally decided to purchase my PDA (Ipaq HX 2410) in 2004.

The reasons I waited so long ?

- The first generation was too bulky
- The second generation had a crappy screen that couldn't be read in
broad daylight...
- The third generation had a better screen (transflective) - but the CPU
was too weak...
- The fourth generation packed more punch (better CPU and more RAM)
but didn't have WIFI...

Finally, the day came when Ipaq released the "perfect' model...

It took me a week to understand that the Windows Mobile OS was a total piece of junk...
You need to reboot every 20 minutes on average...this thing stops responding as soon as you blink...

The "stylus" got lost on a weekly basis...

I needed spectacles in order to be able to read the microscopic characters... and there is no way you can use this PDA joke in a moving vehicle with the stylus...

And the most important issue - a PDA that can't be connected to the internet from almost every location (with an integrated cellular phone - a.k.a Smartphone) - is, as far as I'm concerned - totally useless !!!

 

[mikea]

I think the iPhone is really cool, but don't understand why Apple could not have made the battery a replaceable one (like in my Treo), so you could carry a charged backup battery with you for use when needed.

A guess: Just adding the fasteners for the battery and access door would have the made the iPhone a few mm thicker and His Steveness would veto it on that alone. There may have been some signifigant cost differenece, too.

AFAIK, iPod has even had a easily replaceable battery. I can't think of any other brand MP3 player that does either. If you look at the iPhone as ebing an iPod with phone added you have the reason.

AND with the loyalists happily lining up for a new one every June-July, who ever sees the battery die?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

On a 3G there is no way your listening to 16 hours of music and 4 hours of talking. No way at all. I've had two of them -- so its not like mine is bad.

I have the 1st-gen iPhone, not 3G. Maybe if you turn the 3G off it'll last longer?

I've found that one thing tends to chew up the battery even more than extended conversations, and that is games. If you really work the processor, it really eats the battery.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I think a heavy iphone user learns to strategically place chargers in key locations. I have one on my nightstand, another at my desk, and one in my car.

I dunno about that... I have a car charger, but mostly because I'm in my truck most of the time, so my overnight charge comes from the car charger instead of the plug-in one.

But in the time I've owned it, I think I've only had one or two cases where the phone didn't last the day, and it's rare that I ever bother to charge it other than just overnight.

In other words, in my own usage, the battery life is fine, it does everything I need it to do, I don't modify my usage to preserve battery, but I do charge it nightly.

+1. I burned it up pretty quick a couple of times, both right after I got it, and usually after a new OS or a really good new app got put on it. Other than that, I charge it up overnight and that's all it ever needs - Just like every other cell phone I've owned for the last 12 years. (And this one does a lot more, in a much smaller package!)

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Finally, the day came when Ipaq released the "perfect' model...

It took me a week to understand that the Windows Mobile OS was a total piece of junk...
You need to reboot every 20 minutes on average...this thing stops responding as soon as you blink...

The "stylus" got lost on a weekly basis...

I needed spectacles in order to be able to read the microscopic characters... and there is no way you can use this PDA joke in a moving vehicle with the stylus...

And the most important issue - a PDA that can't be connected to the internet from almost every location (with an integrated cellular phone - a.k.a Smartphone) - is, as far as I'm concerned - totally useless !!!

Interesting... The iPhone solves every one of those issues!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

A guess: Just adding the fasteners for the battery and access door would have the made the iPhone a few mm thicker and His Steveness would veto it on that alone. There may have been some signifigant cost differenece, too.

Bingo.

Apple also switched from a removable battery to a fixed battery in the 17" laptop - And now, battery life is 8 hours instead of 5. Pretty amazing what not having a case for the battery and a finished hole can do for you. An iPhone with a removable battery would probably be as bulky as a Blackberry.

AFAIK, iPod has even had a easily replaceable battery. I can't think of any other brand MP3 player that does either. If you look at the iPhone as ebing an iPod with phone added you have the reason.

Yep - If you really do need a new battery (as in, the internal one is dead or doesn't hold a charge for long) there are places that'll do that for you, for a pretty reasonable cost.

If you just need some extra juice during the day, there are many options for cases with batteries in them, etc. to extend the battery life.

AND with the loyalists happily lining up for a new one every June-July, who ever sees the battery die?

Well, I'm still on my 1st-generation iPhone, which I purchased the first week they were out, and I still don't have to do anything but charge it overnight.

 

[ScottM]

Do you have an iPhone Scott? If you use the 3G for a few hours for pretty much any task it'll be dead. Music isn't as bad if the screen is off.

When you say use please define is that standby, talking, or just getting data every so often to keep your email up to date?

While I do not have an iPhone there are many laying about at work that have been, well say we say, closely studied?

 

[ScottM]

I think the iPhone is really cool, but don't understand why Apple could not have made the battery a replaceable one (like in my Treo), so you could carry a charged backup battery with you for use when needed.

It make sit harder for you to use after market LiION batteries. All consumer electronic companies cringe when users put cheap after market batteries into the devices. One reason is that the after market battery may not be of a sufficient energy capacity and the device will not work to specifications. Wanna guess who gets blamed? It is not the aftermarket battery. Also that aftermarket battery may not work properly with the charger and it may be damaged resulting in a catastrophic failure of hte battery alone with the device. Wanna guess who gets blamed for that? It ain't the aftermarket battery.

Almost all major CE manufactures use smart batteries that have internal security in the form of semiconductors that will tell the device to charge or to operate. If the device does not get a valid response from the batter it will nto turn on. Apple may have just decided that instead of adding this type of security to the battery to just make the battery sealed up and non-user accessible. Thus saving them a few cents per unit.