PBOR2 passes Senate Committee

Bill Jennings said:
True, but as Bruce said, all it will take is one Dr being taken to the cleaners and it's game over.
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Doctors won't be "taken to the cleaners." Their liability will be covered by their general malpractice insurance. Most cases will settle, so there won't be big headlines. Insurance companies won't love paying out in these cases, any more than they love paying out in any case. But, for an industry that collects about $10 billion in medical malpractice insurance premiums per year, any increased costs due to PBOR2 medical certifications will be pretty trivial.
 
bbchien said:
The questionnaire is the frontside of the 8500-8.
The signature to include medical license # is after the backside of the 8500-8. It is clearly designed to lay the unmistakable TORT trail back to the doctor, and it'll only take one suit to make this a problem.
But now, it's too late, I fear, to go back to the Aussie model.....

Good luck with your doc.
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Bruce, I really do disagree with you on this. Perhaps we'll make a friendly wager of an adult beverage? I must hesitantly call you out a bit meaning no offense.

If memory serves you were an Anesthesiologist. Your patients were unconscious. GPs write letters, its just one of the things they do. I really don't think this is going to phase anyone. My GP is already writing letters for me, pretty long ones too. Someone could sue him if I augur in, I've seen more ridiculous arguments win in court. He doesn't blink, never has.

No, I'm no MD. I don't treat disease, I cure it. But I've been a patient for a long time, and I just don't see this as being an issue.
 
No shortage of docs writing scripts for still federally illegal marijuana. Ain't going to be a problem finding a doc that will sign off on this. Some people just aren't wound that tight, and still manage to make it through med school.:goofy:
 
Something like 30,000 people die each year due to prescribed drugs. I find it hard to believe that we'll even register.
 
jbarrass said:
There's a DO in my bldg that does DOT physicals for $45. Saw him yesterday and asked him if he'd be doing them for the FAA.



He said no. Smiled, and said $55.....



I'm not worried about finding a doc for a simple 4 year government exam.
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Haha. Knows his market.

All those "rich pilots" can pay $15 more. LOL.

I'd never met Docs who don't practice before I ended up working IT in the employer drug testing biz. These Docs haven't seen a patient in 20 years or more.

They're good folk (one is even an IFR rated pilot) but they're not particularly interested in the "healing arts" much, if at all. The PhD was the gateway to a 9-5 office job telling folks their test results were really bad and sorry, you're not getting the job.

Push the paper all day, get a Doc's salary, no on call, no ER duty, nobody dying, they don't think any thoughts at all about their jobs, after the factory whistle blows at 6PM. They drive home in a nice car to a nice house and it's all about the bulk paperwork.

Plenty... *Plenty* of Docs who have no interest in anything but collecting a fee for a signature. Folks forget there's a lot of Docs that never practice medicine to any particular amount of skill, they just have the degree and passed the Board and then push paper for a company like mine or an insurance company for a lifetime. The system not only has them, it wants them. Needs them, even.

Pulosi's added wording in the Bill will just make sure some ambulance chaser lawyers will get their cut at insurance company payoff time. If it amounts to any significant dollar amounts we'll all pay more for our airplane insurance and the Docs will pay more for their liability insurance.

The modifications P made were about keeping the lawyers fed. Not about health or safety. But she can spin it as being about both, knowing full well she can't actually provide either one.

Like I said, not condoning it. Just saying it's not going to play out as "difficult" to find someone willing to sign paperwork.

In the current system, FAA holds the ability to punish a Doc by removing their AME status. These non-Doc, Docs... they don't care what FAA says. That's something for the massive law firm on retainer to their insurer to deal with, to them. No direct impact at all to their actions. Just the cost of doing business, paying for those layers of defense.

(And our Docs really are nice people. They even get sad about how many people they tell on a daily basis that they've screwed up their lives with addiction. "I'm sorry but I really don't think they'll let you re-test for that job sweetie, these numbers show massive repeated cocaine abuse, and they'll be receiving a copy of them." But at the end of the day, they're paid to churn through the phone calls and cases and sign the paperwork.)
 
denverpilot said:
Pulosi's added wording in the Bill will just make sure some ambulance chaser lawyers will get their cut at insurance company payoff time. If it amounts to any significant dollar amounts we'll all pay more for our airplane insurance and the Docs will pay more for their liability insurance.

The modifications P made were about keeping the lawyers fed. Not about health or safety. But she can spin it as being about both, knowing full well she can't actually provide either one.
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It wasn't Pulosi.
 
My only real worry is my MD doc isn't going to check my eyesight, which could degrade as I get older. I'll keep after it, but most guys won't.

On the good side no one is going to waste my time checking if I'm color blind every two damn years.
 
Who has a better understanding of an applicant's health?

#1 An AME that is visited once every 2 to 5 years?

OR

#2 A family physician that sees the applicant several times a year including (as applicable):
(a) Performs applicant's yearly physicals for employment?
(b) Sees the applicant's children several times a year?
(c) Sees the applicant's spouse several times a year?


The only thing an AME understands better than a family physician is FAA regulation. Sure there are some "aerospace" factors just like climbing a mountain or scuba diving has factors.
You suppose people do those activities for work and probably are even required by an employer to get a physical? ]
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I don't use my personal physician for work physicals. There are some things an employer doesn't need to know.

I wouldn't want to use my personal physician as an AME (and vice-versa). There are some things the Feds don't need to know.

Acknowledged that the Feds grant themselves access to the MIB and other sources, but I want to be able to discuss matters with the physician without them having an obligation to report to the FAA or a conflict of interest.
 
Another reminder to the people posting as unregistered who have no valid reason to do so.

Pilots of America permits anonymous posting in the Medical Topics forum, as well as in the Lessons Learned forum, but ONLY when disclosing your OWN potential or existing medical condition, potential violation of FAA regulations, incident or accident in which you may have been involved. Posts made anonymously in response to such posts will be deleted unless the content of the response requires anonymity.
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jbarrass said:
Well, this is a source. Agree?

Here is Dr. Mark Eidson from CAMA's letter to Congress/Senate

Dear Congressman/Senator,
The Civil Aviation Medical Association (CAMA) is composed of aviation medical examiners (AME’s) who are interested in aviation and who provide medical certification services for our nation’s pilots. AME’s, half of whom are pilots, fully support general aviation and the safe medical certification of pilots. We wish to state our strong opposition to H.R. 3708 and S.2103, which we believe will seriously threaten the safety of affected pilots, their passengers, and the public below. These bills propose complete elimination of the FAA third class medical certificate for private pilots flying in clear weather with up to five passengers at altitudes up to 14,000 feet and speeds up to 287 miles per hour.

The third class medical certificate for private pilots is neither costly nor burdensome, being required every five years below age 40 and every two years thereafter. Its very existence deters individuals with clearly unsafe medical conditions from applying. In others, safe certification follows identification and treatment of potentially serious conditions. The House and Senate bills would allow lifelong flying without medical oversight by any physician, much less an AME. Individuals with serious and even life-threatening heart, lung, brain, psychiatric and alcohol/substance abuse conditions could declare themselves fit to fly. Self-declaration would free these individuals to carry five passengers at high altitudes at speeds approaching 300 miles per hour. Complete elimination of medical oversight for these pilots would constitute a clear and present danger to aviation safety.

Being mindful of challenges to general aviation, a CAMA task force for medical certification has proposed expanded recreational pilot privileges that would allow operation of larger aircraft at greater speeds with relaxed, simplified medical requirements. The key difference would be the preservation of medical oversight by AME’s. This model exists today safely and successfully in Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom—all insist upon medical oversight. CAMA strongly recommends preservation of medical oversight for pilots and urges you to vote against its elimination as proposed in these bills.
Sincerely,
Mark Eidson, M.D.
President, CAMA
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Pretty damning.
 
The requirement should be simple. Can you hear, see and think clearly. Are you expected to remain vertical for the next two years.

You don't need an AME for that. I know most AME's like helping pilots, but the AME/FAA process is not necessary for 3rd class.
 
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steingar said:
Something like 30,000 people die each year due to prescribed drugs. I find it hard to believe that we'll even register.
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Smoking holes are more noticeable to the press (and lawyers) than someone dying in their home or hospital.

Cheers
 
dell30rb said:
The requirement should be simple. Can you hear, see and think clearly. Are you expected to remain vertical for the next two years.

You don't need an AME for that. I know most AME's like helping pilots, but the AME/FAA process is not necessary for 3rd class.
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Every day that I've held an FAA medical certificate I have fallen unfit to fly, I need to sleep after being awake for ~ 16 hours.
 
X3 Skier said:
Smoking holes are more noticeable to the press (and lawyers) than someone dying in their home or hospital.

Cheers
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How so? Seems like every TV commercial break includes a personal injury lawyer ad going after a drug maker.
 
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I didn't read all the post so I apologize if it's already been brought up but what happens to my color vision restriction and no night flying? Does that all go away now? Or do I still have to take steps to remove it?
 
Criitter7 said:
I didn't read all the post so I apologize if it's already been brought up but what happens to my color vision restriction and no night flying? Does that all go away now? Or do I still have to take steps to remove it?
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It's been discussed, why don't you scroll up 11 posts to post 130...
 
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