PBOR2 .. cleared for takeoff?!

jesse said:
This basically means the senators can fly their airplanes forever and don't have to worry about getting a medical anymore. Kind of convenient.

Doesn't do **** for those that can't get issued for stupid reasons.

It's progress, but not enough progress.
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Kinda like a home built, it has to do to a DER once to get a CofA then after that, the FAA doesn't have to see it again.


If you can't even get an SI there is something wrong.


Then there are folks that get this,

http://journalstar.com/news/state-a...cle_a8e34693-82c8-54e1-b59f-969e5aa8ae21.html
 
jesse said:
This basically means the senators can fly their airplanes forever and don't have to worry about getting a medical anymore. Kind of convenient.

Doesn't do **** for those that can't get issued for stupid reasons.

It's progress, but not enough progress.
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:yeahthat:

Hard to say this any better.
 
bnt83 said:
Kinda like a home built, it has to do to a DER once to get a CofA then after that, the FAA doesn't have to see it again.


If you can't even get an SI there is something wrong.


Then there are folks that get this,

http://journalstar.com/news/state-a...cle_a8e34693-82c8-54e1-b59f-969e5aa8ae21.html
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In all fairness, this will get me flying again, but because of the FAA's absolutely brainless stance on kidney stones, I couldn't get a new medical...

Something to think about.
 
JeffDG said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the FAA extended the "one time medical" the the SP community if this becomes law to make the playing field level.
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Only if they want to fight tooth-and-nail with every pilot advocacy organization in the USA. I don't think they will go there.

Why would they try to "make things level" between different types of certificates? That's like saying they'll require a license and medical for Part 103 pilots to "level things out"...makes no sense.

Plus, the DL Sport Pilot rules have been nothing for an unqualified success. There is no reason for anybody to want to back out of that. Other than maybe spite against Sport Pilots perceived as "getting away with something".
 
BTW, IMO this bill will lead to a decrease in safety. You will get a lot of pilots lying like hell to get that one time medical, since once they have it they can let it lapse and never have to worry again about maintaining the charade.

This is going to turn into a real goat rodeo.
 
bullwinkle said:
BTW, IMO this bill will lead to a decrease in safety. You will get a lot of pilots lying like hell to get that one time medical, since once they have it they can let it lapse and never have to worry again about maintaining the charade.

This is going to turn into a real goat rodeo.
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If it does will it even be measurable? I say nope.

"Sen. Inhofe cited an AOPA Air Safety Institute study of the more than 46,000 aircraft accidents over the past decade, which found that less than one quarter of one percent of all accidents had medical factors involved. Of those, almost none would have been prevented through the current third-class medical certification process."

http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-news-...e-updates-progress-on-pilots-bill-of-rights-2
 
ja_user said:
So what does the every 10 years refer too?
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There is no "every" ten years. If you haven't had a medical within ten years of the enactment of PBOR2, you have to get a one-time medical.

Ron Wanttaja
 
bnt83 said:
"Sen. Inhofe cited an AOPA Air Safety Institute study of the more than 46,000 aircraft accidents over the past decade, which found that less than one quarter of one percent of all accidents had medical factors involved. Of those, almost none would have been prevented through the current third-class medical certification process."
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I'm curious about the "almost none" part of this quote. If I did the math correctly, he says there were roughly 100 medically related accidents. Almost none would be 1 or maybe 2 that could have been prevented by a medical. What were the incidents, and what was the flying status of the pilots? Were they flying as sport pilots? Were they flying private with lapsed medicals? Commercial pilots that slipped through the cracks?

I can see the "if we save just one life" crowd using this quote as a springboard for an offensive.
 
Anyone know the current limitations/stipulations regarding aircraft weight/seats with respect to PBOR2?
 
QuiQuog said:
I can see the "if we save just one life" crowd using this quote as a springboard for an offensive.
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Yeah, and they are probably flying single engine piston airplanes at night, with an engine and propeller that is beyond TBO, and an airframe that isn't following the manufacturer's recommended inspection schedule.

All the above is legal BTW, but for some reason the third class reform is seen as a terrible idea by them.
 
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There has been a possibly significant event. PBOR2 has just been co-sponsored by senator Kelly Ayotte who happens to be the aviation subcommittee chair. From what I understand, that matters, since she is the one who puts it on the agenda.
 
airbrain said:
There has been a possibly significant event. PBOR2 has just been co-sponsored by senator Kelly Ayotte who happens to be the aviation subcommittee chair. From what I understand, that matters, since she is the one who puts it on the agenda.
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I hope you are right, that could potentially be really good news!
 
I just got an email from AOPA, telling me that my congresswoman, a Democrat, has signed on as a cosponsor. :)
 
Forget I posted this.. Should have assumed we would get screwed in the end, then told by AOPA why the changes are great. Guess I and many others are on the sidelines for at least 10 more years.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
 
Looks like stalled again... didn't make it out of committee today... its looking more and more like a stall/spin on approach... it's current trajectory does not seem survivable.
 
libby2cm said:
Amendment was passed, but vote was deferred. Only a couple of weeks at best to bring this to a vote before recess.. Then this goes in circular file to be picked back up next session I suppose. Which, I'm fine with.. This amendment was crap and benefits no one except people like Inhofe and Baker.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
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It benefits a whole lot of people... almost every current Third Class holder. I just hope it passes. If they let someone drive a bus-sized motorhome down a highway, they should also be ok with the same guy flying a light single.
 
DesertNomad said:
It benefits a whole lot of people... almost every current Third Class holder. I just hope it passes. If they let someone drive a bus-sized motorhome down a highway, they should also be ok with the same guy flying a light single.
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What about those of us who are still grounded because of arcane FAA medical rules from the 60's?

Great it benefits you...but won't help grow GA.

Regardless, with so little time left on legislative calendar this year, I don't see this passing Senate, house and O by EOY. Not with everything else going on.

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libby2cm said:
What about those of us who are still grounded because of arcane FAA medical rules from the 60's?

Great it benefits you...but won't help grow GA.
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It WILL help GA. And even more so in the long run. This is a step in the right direction. Or are you one of these "All or Nothing" guys?
 
Whiskey Romeo said:
It WILL help GA. And even more so in the long run. This is a step in the right direction. Or are you one of these "All or Nothing" guys?
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It will help those geezers already flying stay in the game a bit longer, but for real growth, the "you have to get a medical so you can fly without a medical" will still be an impediment for those with a past diagnosis of some horrible FAA threatening disorder.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
It will help those geezers already flying stay in the game a bit longer, but for real growth, the "you have to get a medical so you can fly without a medical" will still be an impediment for those with a past diagnosis of some horrible FAA threatening disorder.
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:eek:
 
DesertNomad said:
It benefits a whole lot of people... almost every current Third Class holder. I just hope it passes. If they let someone drive a bus-sized motorhome down a highway, they should also be ok with the same guy flying a light single.
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Exactly..

As a current medical holder, this helps me.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
It will help those geezers already flying stay in the game a bit longer, but for real growth, the "you have to get a medical so you can fly without a medical" will still be an impediment for those with a past diagnosis of some horrible FAA threatening disorder.
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So, what's the problem with helping us "geezers" while taking a step closer to helping the rest of the GA community?

One SI is not much of an impediment. It's the continuing proof following that SI that creates the impediment.
 
Whiskey Romeo said:
So, what's the problem with helping us "geezers" while taking a step closer to helping the rest of the GA community?
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Nothing. A small step is better than no step.
One SI is not much of an impediment. It's the continuing proof following that SI that creates the impediment.
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That depends on the SI and if one can get one.

The clear thing to do (assuming this passes some day) would be to get kids a medical when he/she is about 5 then they are set for life.

And, while the whole "You need to get a medical so you can fly without a medical" just points out the whole absurdity of this reform, perhaps 20 years from now the data will still show that the once in a lifetime medical was a total waste of resources and perhaps then it could go away.
 
I am glad it will help us geezers, but it will also help a lot of other pilots and "pilots to be." Not only does the current system require a lot of expensive tests if you have any condition that could be disqualifying, but you also have to hope you will have a regular doctor (any specialty -- doesn't matter as far as I can tell) that is willing to do a lot of paperwork to explain why you visited them and what the results are. This is a royal pain sometimes and takes a lot of effort on everyone's part.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Nothing. A small step is better than no step.

That depends on the SI and if one can get one.

The clear thing to do (assuming this passes some day) would be to get kids a medical when he/she is about 5 then they are set for life.

And, while the whole "You need to get a medical so you can fly without a medical" just points out the whole absurdity of this reform, perhaps 20 years from now the data will still show that the once in a lifetime medical was a total waste of resources and perhaps then it could go away.
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I understand. You want no oversight at all. I don't agree with that. Next you'll want to do away with testing for the PPL.

I'm perfectly happy with this if it passes.
 
Whiskey Romeo said:
I understand. You want no oversight at all. I don't agree with that. Next you'll want to do away with testing for the PPL.

I'm perfectly happy with this if it passes.
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
It will help those geezers already flying stay in the game a bit longer, but for real growth, the "you have to get a medical so you can fly without a medical" will still be an impediment for those with a past diagnosis of some horrible FAA threatening disorder.
Click to expand...

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Nothing. A small step is better than no step.

That depends on the SI and if one can get one.

The clear thing to do (assuming this passes some day) would be to get kids a medical when he/she is about 5 then they are set for life.

And, while the whole "You need to get a medical so you can fly without a medical" just points out the whole absurdity of this reform, perhaps 20 years from now the data will still show that the once in a lifetime medical was a total waste of resources and perhaps then it could go away.
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This bill is pretty much a charade with no oversight as it is. For whatever reason, people are believing this bill will keep the skies safer. As someone who is cloud banned now because of this crap and will continue to be if this bill passes, I am not sure removal of 3CM was right either. But, it could have been made something resembling effective, attainable oversight and opened up flying to more people.

So, for example, a responsible normal person on a antidepressant because of 'life' who doesn't want to lie on a medical is forced to pay thousands for BS tests with no guarantees or is outright banned.

But someone who had a 3CM once, goes postal, uses drugs, gets a few DUI's, etc., is cleared for life because they cleared one time, as long as they visit a doc in a box every 2 years.

If you think this is sensible medical reform, you are as crazy as the kooks Washington thinks they are keeping out of the skies.

Inhofe and Baker did what anyone should have expected..went for low hanging fruit that took care of themselves and their cronies under the guise of benefitting a special interest.



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I will post something I posted over on the red board here


Exactly. I am in the group that would have appreciated to see light sport expanded or the 3rd class testing brought more in line with what is medically and financially reasonable for what this is. Its not a commercial operation, and flying something the size of an SUV isnt the same as pulling a tandem trailer down the crowded highway. Stop treating it like it is.

I view the current PBOR as a bone tossed towards the vocal older pilots who (sorry if this offends anyone here) will be happy for a few years until they stop flying on their own due natural attrition. This does nothing in easing the efforts for new pilots in getting into flying and with the way the current medical system works with over testing and prescription to practice defensive medicine its just going to get harder and harder for new pilots to get their medicals without through the same hoops that exist today.

So by this getting passed the vocal majority of current pilots are happy that they don't have to worry about going light sport in a few years when their next medical comes up, and new pilots are still discouraged from flying and GA shrivels through attrition

Current pilots win and stop the fight for true reform, the government wins as the battle ends, and GA ends up being the true looser.

With that said, I will continue to fight for the PBOR2. I have posted my experiences working with my senators offices, and I would like to think my regular calls and dialog was more than helpful in getting my senator on board. However I see this as a poison pill for GA and I hope that everyone who benefits from PBOR understands this and continues to fight for true medical reform even if this passes.
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I'm not taking offense. I am older and glad I may get a chance to avoid a lot of hassle to keeping my medical. I DID take offense that the younger pilots wanted all or nothing. Yet they want us older pilots to support their cause.

I say we take a step forward, take what we can get and continue the flight from the new position. I will continue to push for more change if/when this passes. The fight is for GA, not old or young pilots.
 
Whiskey Romeo said:
I'm not taking offense. I am older and glad I may get a chance to avoid a lot of hassle to keeping my medical. I DID take offense that the younger pilots wanted all or nothing. Yet they want us older pilots to support their cause.

I say we take a step forward, take what we can get and continue the flight from the new position. I will continue to push for more change if/when this passes. The fight is for GA, not old or young pilots.
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I agree 100% My concern is that 85% of the people currently fighting stop doing so after they get what they want. That is what would lose the fight for GA.
 
Still needs to pass the full Senate and the House before the President can sign into law. At least what I recall from my feeble memory of School House Rock on how a bill becomes law.
 
Stingray Don said:
Still needs to pass the full Senate and the House before the President can sign into law. At least what I recall from my feeble memory of School House Rock on how a bill becomes law.
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Sounds right to me, but at least it moved a little.
 
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