Paying for training?

Flyguy8911

Flyguy8911

Filing Flight Plan
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Flyguy8911
Just curious where did you all go to get money to pay for your training? How many of ya'll had to take out loans vs went to college vs just paid for your own training out of pocket. As it stands for me now it looks like I might have to take a loan out on top of paying back my current student loans from college, which is of course affecting the interest rates and loan amounts I am eligible for. Especially if I want to be commercial rated before I'm 30.
 
A job.

Save money for training, spend money for training. Don't have the money, don't spend it. Pretty simple concept.
 
EdFred said:
A job.

Save money for training, spend money for training. Don't have the money, don't spend it. Pretty simple concept.
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Sure, and that's what I am doing now. But I'd like to expedite the process if I could lol.
 
It's a personal decision, but the economics of training to become a career pilot are awful. Even if you had the cash, you'd invest ~$50K in training, and you'd earn ~$25-30K for the first few years. The only way to make the story worse would be to borrow the money, so that you'd be paying back ~$80K for the ~$50K you had to borrow. It doesn't seem to make sense to borrow to become a pilot - at least not based on current starting-pilot salaries.
 
For My Private...(1971) Going to high school and working part time... Made $25 per week and my dad threw in $3 for the $28 per hour rate in a C-150...
 
Yeah, becoming a career pilot seems like a chicken and egg thing from a financial standpoint.
 
Up through the 90s a high school student working minimum wage could take one flight lesson a week by working 10-12 hours per week minimum wage. Not ideal but doable. Now a student would have to work at least 20 hours a week. Unless that student takes easy classes and hurts his or her ability to attend college, it's not really doable, unfortunately.
 
FlySince9 said:
For My Private...(1971) Going to high school and working part time... Made $25 per week and my dad threw in $3 for the $28 per hour rate in a C-150...
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Omg that would be amazing. I work already 40hrs a week as I finish up my last two semesters of college. I would kill for those prices while training lol.
 
EdFred said:
Two jobs. Or a better job.
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Yeah, if I have to go that route I will. Being an adult sucks haha. BUt dman if I haven't wanted to do this since I was like 6 years old. The sacrifice would be worth it.
 
Delayed gratification isn't the norm in much of today's American culture. But it is the better way to go.

I was jonesing for a better/bigger flat screen TV. By the time I had my "New TV" envelope fully funded, the one I wanted was out of date, and replaced with a much improved one for the same price.
 
A high degree of incentive to have a really good job and to do the things I needed to to grow in that job. I paid myself out of pocket. I'm not in the 1%, not even the top 5%. But if you want it you will do what you need to do to get it.
 
Military paid for my undergraduate, employer paid for my MBA... I paid for PPL and Instrument. I suppose I could shoot for my CPL as well but don't really have an interest in that at that moment.
 
Flyguy8911 said:
Just curious where did you all go to get money to pay for your training? How many of ya'll had to take out loans vs went to college vs just paid for your own training out of pocket. As it stands for me now it looks like I might have to take a loan out on top of paying back my current student loans from college, which is of course affecting the interest rates and loan amounts I am eligible for. Especially if I want to be commercial rated before I'm 30.
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I saved it. I started lessons in 1982 but had to stop when the wife was hurt in a skiing accident. but I kept socking money away against the day I would re-start. that day took 30-years to show up but I had my pile of cash ready to go.
 
Credit cards baby! 13k for 43 hours of flyin' time for my PPL. 160 bucks an hour for the 172 and 50 bucks an hour for the instructor.

Had zero debt at the time. Worked fine for the first month. Then the dog got cancer, the girlfriend needed a new car, and then she had surgery.

So.... yeah. Probably not the smartest idea. If I did it over again, I'd get a loan, assuming the rate was reasonable. Fortunately my card is a high-ish limit and low interest rate.
 
I used Pilot Finance for my private. Used cash for my instrument and will be using cash for my commercial.
 
Flyguy8911 said:
Sure, and that's what I am doing now. But I'd like to expedite the process if I could lol.
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Taking out loans to get certificates and ratings is the best way to expedite digging yourself deep into debt. Can't cashflow it? Then you're not ready to do it. Unless, of course, the "it" we're talking about is making a bad decision and getting into debt for something that you should either have enough cash on hand for, or a decent paying job that earns you enough to pay as you go.
 
I'm old ,VA paid for my private.i paid for the rest of my ratings by working more than one job.
 
Lachlan said:
Taking out loans to get certificates and ratings is the best way to expedite digging yourself deep into debt. Can't cashflow it? Then you're not ready to do it. Unless, of course, the "it" we're talking about is making a bad decision and getting into debt for something that you should either have enough cash on hand for, or a decent paying job that earns you enough to pay as you go.
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If everyone went by a cash only policy, GA would dry up in most of the major metro areas of the country. Many of us do have decent paying jobs that would be a king's ransom in 85% of the country.... but we live in areas where the cost of living is prohibitively expensive.

Making what I make, I could afford a 2300 square foot 4 bedroom home on a 10,400 sq foot lot on the west side of your city.

In my city I can afford a small 3 bedroom apartment. The closest home that I could afford near me is a 710 square foot, 2 bedroom home. Beyond that, I'd have to move into Compton if I wanted a single family residence.

My flight schools rents the 172 for 160 bucks an hour. 50 bucks for the instructor.

Turns out a cash only mentality is great for places with lower costs of living.
 
ircphoenix said:
If everyone went by a cash only policy, GA would dry up in most of the major metro areas of the country. Many of us do have decent paying jobs that would be a king's ransom in 85% of the country.... but we live in areas where the cost of living is prohibitively expensive.

Making what I make, I could afford a 2300 square foot 4 bedroom home on a 10,400 sq foot lot on the west side of your city.

In my city I can afford a small 3 bedroom apartment. The closest home that I could afford near me is a 710 square foot, 2 bedroom home. Beyond that, I'd have to move into Compton if I wanted a single family residence.

My flight schools rents the 172 for 160 bucks an hour. 50 bucks for the instructor.

Turns out a cash only mentality is great for places with lower costs of living.
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the fact that you choose to live in an expensive area doesn't change the math of debt. If all you can afford is a small apartment then that's all you can afford. Borrowing money doesn't magically create wealth, quite the opposite. If you aren't independently wealthy and want things that are more affordable in lower cost areas, then move.
 
Yeah. Turns out moving to Compton isn't really something high on my priority list. I'd rather assume a little bit of debt now that is overcome with my income than risk my personal safety or have the kids go to terrible schools so that I have free cash kicking around.
 
I don't know where Compton is, I assume you're on one coast or the other. Doesn't really matter. It's just another place where people complain nonstop that they can't afford this or that. Meantime people in the middle of the country with much less income can have a weekday house, a lake house, and an airplane or any other type of motorized toys with little or no debt. There is a reason U-Haul will all but give you a truck for free to drive from kansas city to southern california. The loaded trucks are all going the other way.
 
Compton, CA. The source of roughly 93% all gangster rap in the 90's. Only marginally better 20 years later. Still a remarkably high chance of being victimized.

Not complaining about not being able to afford anything.

Just don't like people who were born in different areas with different circumstances assuming that everyone else makes worse financial decisions than they do, or making broad generalizations that, while they may fit their own particular circumstances, aren't necessarily realistic for everyone everywhere else.
 
I don't know what a ganster rap is or who buys them. But I can't imagine the circumstances where taking on debt to pay for an expensive hobby like flying is a good idea.
 
ircphoenix said:
Well I won't be paying cash for my plane either.
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Not many of us do. I bought mine half at a time; first half financed for ten years (HELOC, paid off in five at refinance), second half through a credit union for five years just like a car loan. So I more or less paid for the new truck I was lusting after when the plane became available. Paying it off sure did feel good!
 
ircphoenix said:
Compton, CA. The source of roughly 93% all gangster rap in the 90's. Only marginally better 20 years later. Still a remarkably high chance of being victimized.

Not complaining about not being able to afford anything.

Just don't like people who were born in different areas with different circumstances assuming that everyone else makes worse financial decisions than they do, or making broad generalizations that, while they may fit their own particular circumstances, aren't necessarily realistic for everyone everywhere else.
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Choosing to live in a place that stresses your finances does not make assuming debt to fund a hobby a great fiscal choice. Argue that point all you want. As far as "different areas with different circumstances" I grew up in New York State, and my parents' property is right on the edge of a private strip. No, we didn't own an airplane. Far from it. Did I want to? Hell, yes! I worked and saved and worked and saved and now I have my private pilot certificate. I earned it in CO where according to you it is cheap to live. Did I have to go into debt to get it? No, because it is a hobby, a great time, fun... It is not a basic human need like food and shelter. If I could not pay for it with cash on hand it would have never happened. Everyone wants everything RIGHT NOW and no one wants to wait until they earn it or can afford it. Merica: the land of multimillionaires, or at least a bunch of "wannabe" poseurs living beyond their means.
 
Got a job at the airport fueling planes. Got rental discounts working there as well.
 
Do you own a plane? Did you pay cash for that too? Or is that an expensive hobby that is legitimately financed, whereas the PPL isn't?

When did you get your ticket? What were your rental costs? Instructor costs? How do those look relative to prices now, adjusted for inflation?
 
I'm thankful I got all my ratings when I was a young buck. I had CFI at age 18 back in 1975. I worked multiple jobs & living at home at the time made it much easier.

I can't even imagine being married with a family trying to get all the ratings now unless you have a good paying job.

I about had a heart attack the other day when I overheard a CFI telling a prospective student that a PPL would cost around 10K. WOW!
 
Hold the phone kids....

The OP is pondering commercial. So... if the goal is to be a professional pilot he should borrow the money to fund his professional training. That's what doctors and lawyers do. Indian Chiefs apparently need no training.

For hobbyists, pay as you go is the most sensible. But sensible and rolling the dice on some instant gratification isn't gonna bankrupt many people. Unless it's flight training, a plane, a boat, a house, a Jaguar, and all the crap the trophy wife wants. (It multiplies when you have one of them "spending helpers")
 
ircphoenix said:
Do you own a plane? Did you pay cash for that too? Or is that an expensive hobby that is legitimately financed, whereas the PPL isn't?

When did you get your ticket? What were your rental costs? Instructor costs? How do those look relative to prices now, adjusted for inflation?
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For me, yes! I own my plane. Paid cash ~$60,000. Private came in around $9,000 over four years ending 2010. What's your point?
 
ircphoenix said:
Do you own a plane?Y Did you pay cash for that too? Or is that an expensive hobby that is legitimately financed, whereas the PPL isn't?

When did you get your ticket? What were your rental costs? Instructor costs? How do those look relative to prices now, adjusted for inflation?
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Yes, I own some planes. I bought my first plane when I was in college - I couldn't afford what I wanted (a lance) so I bought what I could afford, a 65hp ercoupe with a corroded wing spar. Rebuilt the wing in my living room over a winter. I had a lot of fun with that plane and I spent less on it than my college roommates spent on beer for that year. When I got out of school and got a real job I saved my pennies until I could get a bigger plane, the next one was a Cherokee. Rinse lather repeat. Saved methodically and shopped within my budget when the time came. Borrowing money to buy something that doesn't produce income, is a fool's game. I'll borrow to buy a tractor or a piece of dirt, no problem. I'll never borrow to buy a car, boat, or airplane. Those are expenses, not investments.

25 years after flying that ercoupe we still aren't wealthy people by any definition, we have a modest home and drive used cars. But we have 3 airplanes and don't give a 2nd thought to being able to afford to keep them in great condition. That comes from staying out of debt.
 
rolivi said:
Hold the phone kids....

The OP is pondering commercial. So... if the goal is to be a professional pilot he should borrow the money to fund his professional training. That's what doctors and lawyers do. Indian Chiefs apparently need no training.
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one minor difference - doctor's and lawyers get paid
 
rolivi said:
For me, yes! I own my plane. Paid cash ~$60,000. Private came in around $9,000 over four years ending 2010. What's your point?
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No point. Just a question. Trying to ascertain from the field what is acceptable to finance and what isn't.
 
ircphoenix said:
No point. Just a question. Trying to ascertain from the field what is acceptable to finance and what isn't.
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that's a question only you can answer. But is I might make a suggestion, if you talk to some old timers at your work who are nearing retirement, you'll start to spot some trends in their retirement prospects, their quality of life, their stress level, based on the financial choices they made earlier in life.
 
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