Passed written.. Probably screwed myself though

Ron Levy said:
DPE's aren't supposed to do that, but when they do, I don't stop them, because the more they're talking, the less questions my trainee has to answer. :wink2:
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I don't disagree with you, Ron, I understand what you mean. (yes, I saw the wink :) )

However, my personal reason for letting the DPE talk would be (and has been) to listen and learn from their words. I am not afraid to answer any questions and if I answer one incorrectly, I will discuss it with said DPE. I want/need to know the answer, I am not afraid. But this behavior might be the result of my increasing age and my CDO, who knows. :)
 
BigBadLou said:
I don't disagree with you, Ron, I understand what you mean. (yes, I saw the wink :) )

However, my personal reason for letting the DPE talk would be (and has been) to listen and learn from their words. I am not afraid to answer any questions and if I answer one incorrectly, I will discuss it with said DPE. I want/need to know the answer, I am not afraid. But this behavior might be the result of my increasing age and my CDO, who knows. :)
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That's all fine, but the time for that is in the post-check debrief after the DPE has handed over your new certificate. Otherwise, it extends the length of the test, and that's a stressor I'd just as soon see my trainees do without.

One of the things which puts DPE's on my "avoid" list is excessively long practical tests. There's one guy known to all the instructors in his area as "ADM" -- not Aeronautical Decision Making, but "All Day [first name starting with an M]", with whom an initial instrument rating ride takes literally all day -- 8am to 4pm, with a four-hour oral (starting with "test begins now", not including the administrative stuff which comes first). It's a completely fair, totally by-the-book test, but it's exhaustive and draining to the applicant, and with other options available, I choose to avoid that stress for my trainees. There are plenty of other fair and predictable DPE's who can get it all done in 4-5 hours, which is a lot less physically demanding.
 
SCAirborne said:
Well I passed my written today.... The bad part is I only got an 82. Hopefully that won't haunt me on my check ride. Too late now, guess I have to make the best of it.
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The score won't, if you don't learn what you missed, that might.
 
Ron Levy said:
That's all fine, but the time for that is in the post-check debrief after the DPE has handed over your new certificate. Otherwise, it extends the length of the test, and that's a stressor I'd just as soon see my trainees do without.
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Gotcha.
I guess it's just me but I chose a harda** DPE on purpose and wasn't stressed about the oral or practical test. Having (some) confidence, in my book, is important. Being scared or stressed does not help with piloting, ADM etc.
If an applicant is stressed, there are some ways to help boost their confidence. But I am sure I am preaching to the choir! :)

Blue skies.
Lou
 
Scored 94 on the instrument written, …..2 hour oral. I suspect it depends mostly on the examiners personal style.
In my observation I think the written test is mostly a test of your memorization skills.
 
BigBadLou said:
Gotcha.
I guess it's just me but I chose a harda** DPE on purpose and wasn't stressed about the oral or practical test. Having (some) confidence, in my book, is important. Being scared or stressed does not help with piloting, ADM etc.
If an applicant is stressed, there are some ways to help boost their confidence. But I am sure I am preaching to the choir! :)

Blue skies.
Lou
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I'd say that assuming the applicant passes he/she will soon find him or herself in situations a lot more stressful than just listening to a longwinded DPE.
 
I'm curious?
Ron's mentioned many times that he always sits in on his students practical tests, is this normal? If the student is adequately prepared I can't imagine what he needs a nanny along for?
 
peerlesscowboy said:
Ron's mentioned many times that he always sits in on his students practical tests, is this normal? If the student is adequately prepared I can't imagine what he needs a nanny along for?
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It's SOP for PIC, and it's not an issue of being prepared for the test, but having someone there to deal with hiccups or examiner quirks.

My trainee was doing fine on the oral, hypothetically cruising along eastbound on a V-airway at 5000 towards a published hold on the airway but on the east side of the intersection, i.e., inbound in the opposite direction to his arrival, with standard (right-hand) turns. The DPE asked what sort of entry. "Parallel," says my trainee.

"So how would you do that?" persists the DPE.

"Well, I'd cross the fix, continue straight ahead for one minute, and turn 210 degrees back to intercept the inbound leg."

"WRONG!" says, the DPE, "When you cross the fix for a parallel entry, you have to turn right to displace yourself off the radial on the nonholding side before turning left again to parallel it outbound."

My trainee, sensing a great disturbance in the Force, promptly went into shock, giving me the "deer in the headlights" look.

"Just a moment," I said, "He's giving you the answer exactly as I trained him, so if that's wrong, you need to give me the hit, not him."

"No problem," says the DPE, "this is a point that everyone gets wrong, which is why I ask it." ["No foolin', Sherlock," I think but don't say, "since everyone but you has been doing it the way my guy explained it since Jimmy Doolittle invented instrument flying in 1929."] "Let's look at the AIM Section 5-3-7j3(a) [now renumbered 5-3-8] and Figure 5-3-4. You see how the dashed line for the parallel entry is displaced just below the inbound course line? That's telling you that you have to be displaced off the inbound course during the outbound leg of the parallel entry."

I'm trying very hard how to tell this examiner he's absolutely out to lunch without blowing my trainee's test -- that the reason the dashed line is displaced has nothing to do with flying the leg displaced but rather because otherwise you couldn't bloody see it in the picture.

"Okay," I said, I'll have to say I've been doing and teaching it wrong. Can my student just do it that way on the flight test and we can move on?"

"Sure," says the examiner, "this happens all the time." [see "No foolin', Sherlock," above]

Next day I call both the DPE's FSDO and my own FSDO to tell them what the DPE said. "He said WHAT?" they both responded. I called my trainee to let him know that he could safely continue doing parallel entries the way I taught him, and that was the end of that.

Nevertheless, it was a good example of how DPE's can through a real curve ball at an applicant during a practical test, and why it's important a) to have your instructor handy if it happens, and b) not to panic, but to let the examiner make his/her point and move on. Had a similar situation with another examiner regarding safety pilot qualifications -- the DPE thought the safety pilot had to be fully PIC qualified. Again, having me there with a copy of the relevant Chief Counsel letter handy (thank you, WiFi) turned a potential problem into "Gee, thanks, I didn't know that" from the examiner.

It also helps if the test doesn't go well -- we can do the retraining and re-endorsement on the spot, and possibly get the re-test the same day. Actually did that about five years ago -- applicant had a Temporary with the new rating about two hours after landing on the first attempt.
 
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