Passed the IR written today...what a ridiculous test.

JimNtexas said:
You're doomed on the oral!
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Nah....had lunch last week with a DPE...He even said I'd be a great CFI. Of course I need to get thru the instrment, the commercial then the CFI.....
 
Hey, does the computer still have electronic E6B/calculator that you can use?
 
mtuomi said:
Hey, does the computer still have electronic E6B/calculator that you can use?
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It depends on which of the two testing companies you use...I took mine at Cats, which doesn't have it. Laser does (or so I've heard).
 
Bear in mind that nobody at the FAA (to my knowledge) routinely flies single pilot single engine non-FIKI IFR, in IMC to low approaches etc. This reflects on their institutional mindset and the types of questions (and general emphasis) you see on the knowledge tests.
But that's government, and in a way it's actually good that we get those dumb or impossible-to-answer questions, because ironically that's what real life in the soup is like. You are often in situations where things don't add up, where the book doesn't provide a solution, and you need to improvise. "Perfection" is not what you need in hard IMC, ice and turbulence, what it takes to survive is "adaptation" and "healthy instincts", the same attributes that you need to answer those confounding mis-worded questions. So maybe not so bad after all?
 
Pfft, 92, and you call yourself a perfectionist....
.... I got 1, 1 lousy question wrong....it still bothers me today.
Some I had to memorize like the remote compass knob (clockwise or counterclockwise) to adjust it. Hey, if I were to get it wrong I'll figure it out. And which are your primary and which are backup, there was a table....yuk!
BTW, actor Kurt Russell stated he has all 100s for all his tests.
 
I know I'm not going to get 100, because I've been skipping the ones where you have to look at a flight plan and a map and calculate stuff. They're only worth a point. In the practice tests so far, at least, I can skip all of the "hard" questions and still pass.

There are what... 60? Questions. Which means I only need to get 42 correct. :)
 
Mistake Not... said:
I know I'm not going to get 100, because I've been skipping the ones where you have to look at a flight plan and a map and calculate stuff. They're only worth a point. In the practice tests so far, at least, I can skip all of the "hard" questions and still pass.

There are what... 60? Questions. Which means I only need to get 42 correct. :)
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103 questions actually. need 70 to pass
EDIT: 63/42 for IFR
 
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Yuck. Thanks, though. I need to up the number of questions on the practice test app.
 
Just passed my IR written today, got 85% (I'm not a perfectionist, I'm happy with that :) ). I fully agree with previous comments, it seems they have removed the obsolete ADF/RMI stuff, but added a lot of ambiguous trick questions. I got 2 questions about currency requirements when using FTDs and airplanes together, one unusual attitude where I think the FAA answer is incorrect (climbing right turn). A) was something like "pull and complete a loop" so not relevant, B) was lower nose, add power, wings level and C) was add power, lower nose, wings level.
I chose B), but apparently C) was correct (I don't agree with that).
Plenty of questions like "You are taking off for a 2 hour flight, the weather at your ETA is forecast 3000ft ceiling and 2 mile visibility. How much fuel you need on board". I also got the one about the tropopause height :)
Anyway, glad it's done.
When you do yours, remember to read the question five times to understand what's really going on, read on your STAR altitude requirements, and especially how to detect ice if your wings are painted white (yes, that's a detail they have in those questions. I had 3 questions about that!) I'd say 75% of questions were easy, 15% were worded to be as difficult as they can be where the question tests more about if you fully understood the question rather than if you know the subject, and 10% were coin tosses.
 
mtuomi said:
Incorrect. 60 questions, 42 needed to pass (70% pass rate).
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I don't remember for sure if its 60 or 100 for IFR, but it is definitely 100 for commercial. + 3 extra questions for both IFR and Commercial that are not graded.

EDIT: yep.. stand corrected. 63 for the IFR with 42 to pass
 
genna said:
I don't remember for sure if its 60 or 100 for IFR, but it is definitely 100 for commercial. + 3 extra questions for both IFR and Commercial that are not graded.

EDIT: yep.. stand corrected. 63 for the IFR with 42 to pass
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60 questions, 0 non-graded questions, 42 to pass. This was 2 hours ago :)
 
RotorDude said:
Bear in mind that nobody at the FAA (to my knowledge) routinely flies single pilot single engine non-FIKI IFR, in IMC to low approaches etc. This reflects on their institutional mindset and the types of questions (and general emphasis) you see on the knowledge tests.
But that's government, and in a way it's actually good that we get those dumb or impossible-to-answer questions, because ironically that's what real life in the soup is like. You are often in situations where things don't add up, where the book doesn't provide a solution, and you need to improvise. "Perfection" is not what you need in hard IMC, ice and turbulence, what it takes to survive is "adaptation" and "healthy instincts", the same attributes that you need to answer those confounding mis-worded questions. So maybe not so bad after all?
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I'm not sure anyone at the FAA involved with developing the knowledge exams fly anything other than as a pac in the back of a commercial airline. But what do I know?
 
murphey said:
I'm not sure anyone at the FAA involved with developing the knowledge exams fly anything other than as a pac in the back of a commercial airline. But what do I know?
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Hey, I was trying to be kind. :)
 
mtuomi said:
60 questions, 0 non-graded questions, 42 to pass. This was 2 hours ago :)
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Now that's odd. Perhaps they stopped the experimental questions for IFR. I'm quite certain that I answered 3 extra "test" questions back in 2014.
 
genna said:
Now that's odd. Perhaps they stopped the experimental questions for IFR. I'm quite certain that I answered 3 extra "test" questions back in 2014.
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As my "examiner" started the test, he said, "Lets see if you get any of the extra questions." He had me hit start, saw there were 60 questions, then said, "Nope." Later he explained that some tests get experimental questions, some don't...so maybe that's what you mean by 3 extra...
 
tawood said:
As my "examiner" started the test, he said, "Lets see if you get any of the extra questions." He had me hit start, saw there were 60 questions, then said, "Nope." Later he explained that some tests get experimental questions, some don't...so maybe that's what you mean by 3 extra...
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yes that's what i meant. makes sense now
 
Yes, the computer tells you how many graded and non-graded questions you'll get. I got 0 non-graded so 60 total.
 
mtuomi said:
one unusual attitude where I think the FAA answer is incorrect (climbing right turn). A) was something like "pull and complete a loop" so not relevant, B) was lower nose, add power, wings level and C) was add power, lower nose, wings level.
I chose B), but apparently C) was correct (I don't agree with that).
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it makes a difference when it takes your engines 9 seconds to spool, though... in fairness its all kind of one simultaneous thing in reality but still in the proper order
 
jaybee said:
it makes a difference when it takes your engines 9 seconds to spool, though... in fairness its all kind of one simultaneous thing in reality but still in the proper order
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In reality you do both at the same time, but since that wasn't an option, it was a 50/50 coin toss on what the FAA thought was the correct order. On jets with low hanging engines, going full power (and assuming you don't lower the nose fast enough), you can stall from that situation given the nose-up effect when adding power. Lowering the nose is an immediate way to stop the speed decay, and IMO should be nr. 1.
 
mtuomi said:
In reality you do both at the same time,
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uhh,,, pretty sure I said that...."in fairness its all kind of one simultaneous thing"

On jets with low hanging engines... ...(and assuming you don't lower the nose fast enough)
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and now you're adding a variables that weren't there previously....

at this point I'm not sure if you are just making conversation or have some kind of over obsessive need to always be right. it seems to be the latter so with that I'll find better things to do.
 
jaybee said:
uhh,,, pretty sure I said that...."in fairness its all kind of one simultaneous thing"



and now you're adding a variables that weren't there previously....

at this point I'm not sure if you are just making conversation or have some kind of over obsessive need to always be right. it seems to be the latter so with that I'll find better things to do.
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Yup, we fully agree, I was adding a variable just like you did with your 9 second spoolup time, trying to point out the ambiguity in the question, not trying to prove you "wrong" and me "right".

My argument was, that there's no way to tell which of those two answers would be "correct", so it was a 50/50. FAA Knowledge test guide for IRA says "From the answer options given, it may appear that there is more than one possible answer; however, there is only one answer that is correct and complete. The other answers are either incomplete, erroneous, or derived from popular misconceptions.", which is not true with this (and many other) question(s).
 
mtuomi said:
...one unusual attitude where I think the FAA answer is incorrect (climbing right turn). A) was something like "pull and complete a loop" so not relevant, B) was lower nose, add power, wings level and C) was add power, lower nose, wings level.
I chose B), but apparently C) was correct (I don't agree with that).
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mtuomi said:
My argument was, that there's no way to tell which of those two answers would be "correct", so it was a 50/50.
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You may disagree, but the FAA explicitly states the answer in the IFH:
Nose-High Attitudes

If the airspeed is decreasing, or below the desired airspeed, increase power (as necessary in proportion to the observed deceleration), apply forward elevator pressure to lower the nose and prevent a stall, and correct the bank by applying coordinated aileron and rudder pressure to level the miniature aircraft and center the ball of the turn coordinator. The corrective control applications are made almost simultaneously, but in the sequence given above.
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MauleSkinner said:
You may disagree, but the FAA explicitly states the answer in the IFH:
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(actually my CFII and another one I asked disagree with FAA as well).

I'm not doubting the correct answer is in the IFH. I was disagreeing with the whole question. That kind of a question only tests how much of the IFH you have memorized. That is a skill that should be tested in the practical test. Same as the questions about "primary" and "supporting" instruments which are kind of pointless.

Instead of those questions, there should be more questions about how to fly arrival procedures, weather decoding, minimums and other subjects that are directly relevant to actual operations under IFR. In my test, maybe 30% of the questions were ops related questions, and I feel that is too low %age.
 
mtuomi said:
(actually my CFII and another one I asked disagree with FAA as well).

I'm not doubting the correct answer is in the IFH. I was disagreeing with the whole question. That kind of a question only tests how much of the IFH you have memorized. That is a skill that should be tested in the practical test. Same as the questions about "primary" and "supporting" instruments which are kind of pointless.

Instead of those questions, there should be more questions about how to fly arrival procedures, weather decoding, minimums and other subjects that are directly relevant to actual operations under IFR. In my test, maybe 30% of the questions were ops related questions, and I feel that is too low %age.
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Given the number of pilots I see who either fail to recognize an instrument malfunction or can't control the airplane while they troubleshoot the instrument malfunction, I think the "Primary/Supporting" questions could actually use more emphasis, but I agree with you in principal...the airplane questions should evaluate your operational knowlege, not your ability to memorize trivia.
 
mtuomi said:
I'm not doubting the correct answer is in the IFH. I was disagreeing with the whole question. That kind of a question only tests how much of the IFH you have memorized....
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The procedures for IMC unusual attitude recovery were on the IFR knowledge test when I took it twenty-five years ago. They're rather important to memorize, IMO, because it's a situation in which you need to quickly remember the correct procedure in order to survive. JFK, Jr. had been taking instrument flight lessons when he had his fatal accident, which may have involved a very rapidly descending steep spiral. Recovering from that requires remembering the correct order in which to use the controls, because if you try to raise the nose first by pulling, all that happens is that you tighten the spiral. I don't know whether he had taken the IFR knowledge test yet, but it's possible that memorizing the answers to those questions could have saved his life.
 
denverpilot said:
That crap. Whoever did the nav questions for the commercial is completely in love with those and other trigonometry style math tricks. But the techniques aren't that hard to master long enough to pass the test and literally then forget them. I can't imagine ever bothering to teach a student trig tricks in the modern nav world. They're great as cocktail party fodder if you like such things.
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Heck, when I took the commercial several years ago (since expired and have to take again at some point), I just memorized the questions and answers that dealt with that kind of stuff, and when I recognized it just put down the answer I'd already memorized. I think I probably did the same on the instrument too. lol.
 
I have come to the conclusion that the written is mostly an industry and this (knowledge) evaluation is best part of the oral. The written for IR has been outdated for at least a decade plus.
 
Too add to this, I am now studying for the Commercial written. I took it several years ago and passed with ease, and many of the problems were easy to just memorize. They've definitely changed it now especially with some of the performance questions and the tables they use, having to know the temperature lapse rate to figure things out, etc. Much harder to memorize of of the answers on this one for me than I remember for the other one I took (at least 10 years ago or longer).
 
The tests are a just a hoop to jump through - no particular value, or perhaps marginal value, compared to your flight instruction, check ride, and oral. My intuition is, if the tests disappeared, it would have zero impact on getting the rating, or on flying safety. The practice tests in the self-study books and courses cover the necessary stuff in detail. . .you do O.K. with the Gleim, or "get it" with the King courses, you're prepared with the knowledge you need. The tests are a square to fill for the Feds.
 
Now that the big flight schools have input on written tests, thing will probably get worse.
 
Sundancer said:
The tests are a just a hoop to jump through - no particular value, or perhaps marginal value, compared to your flight instruction, check ride, and oral. My intuition is, if the tests disappeared, it would have zero impact on getting the rating, or on flying safety. The practice tests in the self-study books and courses cover the necessary stuff in detail. . .you do O.K. with the Gleim, or "get it" with the King courses, you're prepared with the knowledge you need. The tests are a square to fill for the Feds.
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I think they do one other thing for older pilots... how many decades has it been for some since they cracked a book and were in "study mode"?

Some folks who show up wanting to learn to fly, haven't sat down at a desk and pounded through a textbook and studied in a very long time. Younger folks are closer to their school years (or still in them) and still have the skill.

The writtens and the homework assigned by proxy ("go pass the written") can get someone back to where they're ready to crack the books and really start learning again if they're out of practice. Also makes them budget some study time into their day, and that comes in handy for the CFI who can say, "Did you read chapter 12 before this flight?" and know they've at least made the effort to study the books enough to get the written done.

My CFI nudged me the other day when the landings sucked. "Did you re-read the chapter on precision landings in the AFH? I know you've read it before. There's good information there."

Uuuuuuhhh. Nope. I'll do that tonight... (smacks forehead...)
 
I had nothing to compare "flying" tests to except college. Until now.

I signed up to get my real estate license. Online course. Just to finish the -course- exam, I have to have a proctor. That would be like having someone supervise you to take the King Schools final test. THEN you go through some more hoops to be allowed to take the state exam, AND you have to be fingerprinted.

Yes, you could argue that it's important to know who is selling property, but there's still no physical involved and no loss of life. Flying tests feel pretty informal next to this. (I think both are massive overkill and designed as speed bumps, but...)

After this, the FAA tests could be better, obviously, but they could also be a WHOLE lot worse. So, I dunno... don't touch the poop?
 
denverpilot said:
I think they do one other thing for older pilots... how many decades has it been for some since they cracked a book and were in "study mode"?
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Well that would be me then. I haven't flown for 11 years and was training for the commercial when I stopped. Amazing how much you forget over that time when you're not active in it. So now studying for my commercial written with Sheppard. My head hurts. lol.
 
tawood said:
I'm a perfectionist, so like most things in my life, I over prepared, and going into the test really I felt I knew the material down pat.
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Apparently the perfectionist aspect doesn't carry over to your use of the correct word in your thread title. Not sure if you meant that the test is now in the past or just that you passed the test? ;)
 
EppyGA said:
Apparently the perfectionist aspect doesn't carry over to your use of the correct word in your thread title. Not sure if you meant that the test is now in the past or just that you passed the test? ;)
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As I said previously, I use text to speech for most of my posting. I guess my perfectionism doesn't carry over to my proof reading.
 
If you get a second question in the same vein as the previous one, you probably picked the wrong answer.
 
tawood said:
...the hardest part I had with the test was just simply trying to interpret the horribly worded questions. I do not feel the FAA is trying to test your IFR knowledge, but instead just trying to trick you with stupid situations or poor wording.
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I know exactly what you mean, just took my Commercial written last week, and true to form just like the IR and PPL "knowledge" tests, there are some questions that you look at and go huh?? You think, "Well A would be correct if they hadn't tacked on those three random words at the end that I'm pretty sure make it incorrect, and B isn't exactly right but not exactly wrong, at least I know C is wrong for sure, I think...ok, eenie meenie miney and moe!"
 
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