Part time job hunting

sdflyer

sdflyer

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sdflyer
I'm CP-ASEL IA who is currently working on multi engine upgrade. I'm full time software engineer and wondering if there any opportunities for part time flying in San Diego area. I'm not interested in good pay, but rather in building experience. I even think I could easily fly for free as long as things work out the way I need :)

So far my only options are gilder /banner towing, but I'm not very excited about it :) Can anybody recommend something? Perhaps somebody was in the similar situation?

Thanks!
 
glider/banner towing isnt that bad. usually you get to fly relatively interesting aircraft and it really puts to practice all that stuff you learned about performance. requires good flying skills, and keeps those skills sharp. plus no passengers to worry about
 
sdflyer said:
I'm CP-ASEL IA who is currently working on multi engine upgrade. I'm full time software engineer and wondering if there any opportunities for part time flying in San Diego area. I'm not interested in good pay, but rather in building experience. I even think I could easily fly for free as long as things work out the way I need :)
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So let me ask you, if someone walked into the company you worked for and said "I'm a Software Engineer looking for a part time opportunity. I'm not interested in pay, in fact I'll work for for free to "build my experience".

How would you feel?

If your employer knows he can get free or minimum wage employees to do the job your doing, wouldn't that bring down what a Software Engineer should be earning?
 
sdflyer said:
I even think I could easily fly for free as long as things work out the way I need :)
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Please don't do that. Part of the reason entry level pilot pay is so abysmal is because too many pilots have that attitude. How much money have you put into obtaining your certificates? As one pilot told me a long time ago, do not prostitute yourself for a pilot job. It does you no good and it doesn't help those following you either.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
So let me ask you, if someone walked into the company you worked for and said "I'm a Software Engineer looking for a part time opportunity. I'm not interested in pay, in fact I'll work for for free to "build my experience".

How would you feel?
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Well I'm not an employer so I would feel absolutely nothing. However, if she was a pretty girl I perhaps felt something, but it's no work related :)

If your employer knows he can get free or minimum wage employees to do the job your doing, wouldn't that bring down what a Software Engineer should be earning?
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I talked to some old bold pilot who told me that in LA area it used to be people who were actually paying for the small airlines to build hours.
Now as you look at software engineers in general there are such thing as internship where entry level engineer-student obtain skill without getting paid. I haven't noticed it affected industry because of that :)
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Please don't do that. Part of the reason entry level pilot pay is so abysmal is because too many pilots have that attitude. How much money have you put into obtaining your certificates? As one pilot told me a long time ago, do not prostitute yourself for a pilot job. It does you no good and it doesn't help those following you either.
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I have only around 400 logged hours. For example Part 135 PIC requires minimum 1200, SIC 500. I already inquired few local companies about job opportunities and got recommendation to "build hours". So how the heck I'm going to build hours in for example mutlti engine airplane if I can't afford it?
So I have choice not to fly or fly for free - do I have any other options?
 
sdflyer said:
Now as you look at software engineers in general there are such thing as internship where entry level engineer-student obtain skill without getting paid. I haven't noticed it affected industry because of that :)
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Who is employing interns and not paying them? My employer certainly isn't. And my co-op job in college (a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away) paid well.
 
sdflyer said:
I have only around 400 logged hours. For example Part 135 PIC requires minimum 1200, SIC 500. I already inquired few local companies about job opportunities and got recommendation to "build hours". So how the heck I'm going to build hours in for example mutlti engine airplane if I can't afford it?
So I have choice not to fly or fly for free - do I have any other options?
Click to expand...

Flight Instruct. Banner Tow, Glider Tow. Fire Patrol. Traffic watch. Buy a plane.

Lots of us worked our way up through the ranks without "working for free".
 
sdflyer said:
I have only around 400 logged hours. For example Part 135 PIC requires minimum 1200, SIC 500. I already inquired few local companies about job opportunities and got recommendation to "build hours". So how the heck I'm going to build hours in for example mutlti engine airplane if I can't afford it?
So I have choice not to fly or fly for free - do I have any other options?
Click to expand...

It is a hard nut to crack. I was in that position too. Bottom line is you do what you have to do. But for goodness sake, don't tell an employer you would work for free. It sends the wrong message.
 
you're supposed to work.

and at my engineering co-op i was doing a full time employees job and was getting a full time salary. managed to buy a glider and a bunch of school off of that co-op.
 
Ghery said:
Who is employing interns and not paying them? My employer certainly isn't. And my co-op job in college (a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away) paid well.
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Small companies do..Any way I'm here for advice not for lectures :)
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Flight Instruct. Banner Tow, Glider Tow. Fire Patrol. Traffic watch. Buy a plane.

Lots of us worked our way up through the ranks without "working for free".
Click to expand...

CFI license requires more investment as well as buying the plane. As far s fire patrol and traffic watch could you refer exactly where such employment
positions are available in San Diego area? Thanks in advance !
 
Greg Bockelman said:
It is a hard nut to crack. I was in that position too. Bottom line is you do what you have to do. But for goodness sake, don't tell an employer you would work for free. It sends the wrong message.
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Well the last word I got from some small Part 135 company which promised that if I find them a customer I can get some training multi/turbo time during the empty leg, but it just doesn't sound right.
 
sdflyer said:
Well the last word I got from some small Part 135 company which promised that if I find them a customer I can get some training multi/turbo time during the empty leg, but it just doesn't sound right.
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Why doesn't it sound right? If the company's Operations Specifications don't prohibit it, it is perfectly legal on the empty legs.
 
Instructing doesn't require that you own the airplane.
 
While I love to fly and sometimes will certainly fly just for the fun of it, I also have to make a living. Because somewhere it was established that a CFI shouldn't make so much, the average wage for a CFI is less than $20 per hour.

That may seem like a pretty decent wage and in fact, it is. But, not for a CFI. I get paid only when I fly. If I were paid for eight hours everyday, I'd do great. I don't fly that much and it hurts.

Likewise, there are pilots out there who fly for small charter or freight outfits for only a few hours daily and walk away with peanuts for that time. That's the earnings after having invested a year or more and spent tens of thousands of dollars to earn the certificates and ratings to do the job; many of them with this tied up in career training loans.

Take a look at what one of the better regional airlines are then take a look at the average:

Horizon Airlines 70 Hours per month x $29 per hour = $24,360 per year

Colgan Air 70 Hours per month x $21 per hour = $17,640 per year

Would you work for that full-time while trying to repay substantial loans as well as sustain your existence? One would probably do better to become a golfing instructor. The average starting salary for an assistant golf pro is $35,000. Go figure!
 
the only nice thing about the regionals is while the minimum may be 70 hrs you are basically guaranteed to work the maximum allowable hours every month.
 
tonycondon said:
the only nice thing about the regionals is while the minimum may be 70 hrs you are basically guaranteed to work the maximum allowable hours every month.
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Which is a max of 100 hours a month, 1000 hours a year.
 
You're in SD and you don't want to tow banners or gliders? Good luck with that plan.

:skeptical:
 
sdflyer said:
Now as you look at software engineers in general there are such thing as internship where entry level engineer-student obtain skill without getting paid. I haven't noticed it affected industry because of that :)
Click to expand...

It's a VERY rare thing for an engineering internship to be unpaid. Also, I know that my school would turn down any such offers from employers. They expected interns to be paid, and paid well.

There's an outfit up here that will "let you fly for free" if you have Comm-ASEL, throwing jumpers out. That's kind of out of season now I think (It snowed up here today), but I haven't called them yet. If I do, I'm going to make damn sure that they at least pay me enough to pay for my gas to get there (it's kind of a hike from my house).

sdflyer said:
I have only around 400 logged hours. For example Part 135 PIC requires minimum 1200, SIC 500.
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Read the regs again. SIC does not require 500 hours. VFR PIC is 500 hours, IFR PIC is 1200 hours. SIC, you just need the proper ratings, and to be instrument current if IFR.

I already inquired few local companies about job opportunities and got recommendation to "build hours". So how the heck I'm going to build hours in for example mutlti engine airplane if I can't afford it?
So I have choice not to fly or fly for free - do I have any other options?
Click to expand...

Plenty of options, many of which have been posted here.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Why doesn't it sound right? If the company's Operations Specifications don't prohibit it, it is perfectly legal on the empty legs.
Click to expand...
I like the part with an empty leg, I don't like the part that I have to find them a customer to get opportunity for the empty leg flight :):fingerwag:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It's a VERY rare thing for an engineering internship to be unpaid. Also, I know that my school would turn down any such offers from employers. They expected interns to be paid, and paid well.
Click to expand...
Thats how I got in the industry - unpaid, but lets leave it off current conversation

If I do, I'm going to make damn sure that they at least pay me enough to pay for my gas to get there (it's kind of a hike from my house).
Click to expand...
Thanks I'm inquiring this possibility at the moment



Read the regs again. SIC does not require 500 hours. VFR PIC is 500 hours, IFR PIC is 1200 hours. SIC, you just need the proper ratings, and to be instrument current if IFR.
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Yes, my bad
 
There's jump plane flying, too... in fact, there's a skydiving school at Brown Muni. They're usually busy.
 
sdflyer said:
I even think I could easily fly for free as long as things work out the way I need :) quote]

Please for the sake of all professional pilots do not fly for free, I know getting paid to fly seems like a dream right now, but I would be willing to bet you will not feel the same way not even a month down the road...Professional pilots of any kind must work very hard and sacrifice alot including myself. Per above ..being a whore in the aviation industry hurts us all , not to mention gives you a bad name in a very small pond.etc, Moreover most places will likely take your enthusiasm and percieve it as desperation. Good luck on your endeavors Im sure you will find something in SOCAL..lots of my friends have. Go vist French Valley Apt,,
Cheers
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rottydaddy said:
There's jump plane flying, too... in fact, there's a skydiving school at Brown Muni. They're usually busy.
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Yes thanks I know this school. I will try to check them again, last time I checked they had enough pilots
 
taters said:
Please for the sake of all professional pilots do not do this, I know getting paid to fly seems like a dream right now, but I would be willing to bet you will not feel the same way not even a month down the road...Professional pilots of any kind must work very hard and sacrifice alot including myself. Per above ..being a whore in the aviation industry hurts us all , not to mention gives you a bad name in a very small pond.etc, Moreover most places will likely take your enthusiasm and percieve it as desperation. Good luck on your endeavors Im sure you will find something in SOCAL..lots of my friends have. Go vist French Valley Apt,,
Cheers
Click to expand...

I've been working toward it for the past 5 years, and even willing to sacrifice my position of software engineer. However, it's not easy to do I'm 37 years old and have certain obligations for the love ones ..I bet it could be easier if I was 17 years younger :yes:
 
sdflyer said:
I've been working toward it for the past 5 years, and even willing to sacrifice my position of software engineer. However, it's not easy to do I'm 37 years old and have certain obligations for the love ones ..I bet it could be easier if I was 17 years younger :yes:
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Is flying something you want to do on the side or are you thinking of ditching your current career to become a pilot?
 
Everskyward said:
Is flying something you want to do on the side or are you thinking of ditching your current career to become a pilot?
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I actually want start on the side until I get enough hours to go full time.
However, I don't think I need to become a pilot, I've been a pilot for the past five year :D
 
taters said:
Per above ..being a whore in the aviation industry hurts us all , not to mention gives you a bad name in a very small pond.etc, Moreover most places will likely take your enthusiasm and percieve it as desperation.
Click to expand...
Just to get our analogies straight, I think you mean that being a "slut" (who does it for free) hurts all us "whores" (who expect to be paid). Other than that, I agree! :)
 
sdflyer said:
I actually want start on the side until I get enough hours to go full time.
Click to expand...
That's probably a good idea, especially if you have family obligations. Aviation is a tough business, especially now, and any kind of entry level job is going to be low paying and probably not that wonderful. I have seen people try to change careers at about your age with varying degrees of success. It's hard for some people to start over at the bottom after they have had some degree of success in their former career. Some people are also not thrilled with the reality of the job once they get to where they thought they wanted to be. For these reasons I think it's a good idea to take the cautious approach as you seem to be doing.
 
sdflyer said:
It's probably sound weird but not really
Click to expand...

I'm going to go cliche on you, beggars can't be choosers. You want the hours, but you would prefer to start as an ATP, maybe fly part 135 on citations, or a Sabre. Work your way(quickly) up to right seat for a regional, where you'll get some day only, every 4th day flights from SD to the islands. Then, on to international routes for AA or UA.

I towed banners for several years, gliders, and a few jumpers too. It's not rewarding, or glamorous, but it can be fun, and you'll learn a lot.
 
Just a side not for people who thinks that I want to get a spoon of honey without eating sour :) Here is my path to aviation.

I've been dreaming to become a pilot since I was a kid. It took me many about 10 years to immigrate to the United States, 2 years learn English, 7 years get BS in CS, 5 years to become US citizen and finally become a pilot.

If I was 16 younger and didn't have any obligation to my family, I would definitely drop everything and enjoy towing gliders and banners full time. Unfortunately, I can't afford to do it being 37 years old.

Thanks everyone for you time and responses ! :)
 
sdflyer said:
If I was 16 younger and didn't have any obligation to my family, I would definitely drop everything and enjoy towing gliders and banners full time. Unfortunately, I can't afford to do it being 37 years old.
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Towing gliders or banners can be done on the weekends outside your normal job. Flying jumpers would also fit into this category. Becoming a CFI might also be an idea as long as you think it's something you would enjoy. You're right, in some ways it would be easier if you were 20, but you probably have the advantage of having some financial stability and are able to to use the toe-in-the-water method while keeping your day job. Good luck in whatever you decide.
 
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