Parents arent happy with my choice? Paying for it? Race?

Hi Integra144!

First I would like to say this is Angel (Scott's wife) I read your post and wanted to respond because the race thing hits home for me. My husband and I adopted a baby girl who is asian from Korea. I worry about this for her future and I just wanted to say Scott already wants her to be a PILOT! And if that is what she wants to do thier is no stopping her from doing it including her race. We will fully support her no matter what. Now I know you said your parents don't want you to become a pilot but if that is what you would truly be happy doing I would say go for it if you can make it work! Definetely don't do it because of your race! Wishing you all the best! Hope it was ok for me to post! :)

Angel
 
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Scott, sounds like your wife is an Angel in more ways than one. Good on you both!
 
Missa said:
Follow your parents request and get a degree in something other then aviation. It's never bad to have a fall back, even if you never use it.
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And it could be used as a point of negotiation with parents too...

Here's my suggestion: Find a school where you can major in Aerospace Engineering and get your ratings (whether at the university or at the local FBO). Tell your parents you'll major in (aero-) Engineering, if they'll also allow you to pursue flying. If nothing else, the engineering classes will make you a better pilot.

If that doesn't work, it's back to trading that Lexus for a bicycle and a bunch of flying.
 
Thanks all for the posts and advice; just a status update without me spewing too much dirty laundry. Yesterday me and my parents got in a BIG and I mean big fight. After about three hours we all calmed down, and my dad said he’ll think about it, today everything seems well like if no fight had happened. Their main concern is the plane crashing as generally the survival rate is low as well as being able to support myself, but I also explained that at least in this country US carriers don’t crash very often and they complete more than a thousand flights a day without incident. Also that when a plane crashes the news makes big deal about it because of the loss of life. If the news mentioned every car accident in the US every day, I’m pretty sure everyone would be scared to drive too. I also said that I am keeping accounting as a safety net in case if things don’t work out and I can just fly for recreation. My parents said they have to sleep on it. Also the intro went fine it was really awesome the CFI did the taxi, checklist, take off and landing and air maneuvers. He let me descend and ascend as well as perform some heading changes. And use the rudders and brakes on the ground. Flying is not like in the movies where the pilot just turns the yoke and the plane flies smooth and level. The wind kind of tosses the plane around a bit and the trim has to be adjusted or the plan begins to descend rapidly (kind of scary felt like I was on roller coaster). The plane is really loud inside if you take off the headphones, we were using a Cessna 172SP I don’t think it was G1000, but it seemed to be a newer model as it had GPS, Collision Warning System, and the plane talked like “blank blank in transit” or in motion something along those lines.
 
integra144 said:
Thanks all for the posts and advice; just a status update without me spewing too much dirty laundry. Yesterday me and my parents got in a BIG and I mean big fight. After about three hours we all calmed down, and my dad said he’ll think about it, today everything seems well like if no fight had happened. Their main concern is the plane crashing as generally the survival rate is low as well as being able to support myself, but I also explained that at least in this country US carriers don’t crash very often and they complete more than a thousand flights a day without incident. Also that when a plane crashes the news makes big deal about it because of the loss of life. If the news mentioned every car accident in the US every day, I’m pretty sure everyone would be scared to drive too. I also said that I am keeping accounting as a safety net in case if things don’t work out and I can just fly for recreation. My parents said they have to sleep on it. Also the intro went fine it was really awesome the CFI did the taxi, checklist, take off and landing and air maneuvers. He let me descend and ascend as well as perform some heading changes. And use the rudders and brakes on the ground. Flying is not like in the movies where the pilot just turns the yoke and the plane flies smooth and level. The wind kind of tosses the plane around a bit and the trim has to be adjusted or the plan begins to descend rapidly (kind of scary felt like I was on roller coaster). The plane is really loud inside if you take off the headphones, we were using a Cessna 172SP I don’t think it was G1000, but it seemed to be a newer model as it had GPS, Collision Warning System, and the plane talked like “blank blank in transit” or in motion something along those lines.
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Sometimes parents need some time to get over their own fears for you (they have more than you do, believe that). Sounds like they are starting to take things a bit more seriously, try to keep it from being a blow out fight from now on though. Make your plan, stay by that, don't argue, just stay calm. Don't be inflexible though, if there is compromise to be had to achieve your end goal, by all means, that is the keypoint to most all of your future. You sound like you have that part figure out, just quit fighting about it, it takes two parties to have a fight, if you don't play into it, it can't happen.

I'm really surprised that the instructor didn't have you taxi and take off, that is standard on an intro, taxiing gets them out of "gas, clutch and brake" mode and introduces steering to them, and takeoff is simple, when the plane is ready to fly, it flies, and that first takeoff is usually what sinks the hook.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Here's my suggestion: Find a school where you can major in Aerospace Engineering and get your ratings (whether at the university or at the local FBO). Tell your parents you'll major in (aero-) Engineering, if they'll also allow you to pursue flying. If nothing else, the engineering classes will make you a better pilot.
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Only if doing hellish math and computer programming makes you a better pilot. Although I do like my AeroE students the best, but I think thats because I 'speak their language'. I guess the degree in aerospace will help you understand the aerodynamics of the flying better, as you should have a firm grasp on the lift equation, angle of attack and whatnot. I can personally testify that being a pilot and CFI has had basically zero benefit on getting the AeroE degree, except being able to interject a little bit of realism into the theory occasionally.
 
wsuffa said:
But remember that *sometimes* doing what you love as your profession will take away the joy and much of your love for same. So my advice would be to find both a profession and a corporate culture where your love for the work will continue to exist.

Think of it this way: Would you continue to love your SO/spouse if you had to go to work and work side-by-side every single day? Most people can't do that.

Choose well, and think it through.
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Bill, this is a great point.

When I was in my first year of college (and it wasn't going so well) I decided I wanted to fly for the airlines. I already had my private certificate and flying was just about the only thing I really liked. My soon-to-be father-in-law was a Captain for Frontier Airlines. He had started as a CFI instructing in Champs, then flew charter, then corporate before getting a job with Central Airlines.

When I visited with him about whether I should drop out of college and start working on my ratings, or join the military to fly, his advice really surprised me. He told me to stay in school and get a degree. Then get a job and make enough money that I could fly what I wanted, when I wanted, and where I wanted, without anyone else telling me how to do it. Well, it didn't exactly work out that way but in my case it was good advice.

Many, many of us continue to have a deep passion for flying in large part because we don't do it to make a living. It is an avocation, not a vocation, and it works best that way. I'm not trying to talk you out of a career in aviation, just trying to emphasize Bill's point that you don't have to do it for a living to love it.
 
tonycondon said:
... you should have a firm grasp on the lift equation, angle of attack and whatnot.
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I'm going to add that to my ground school in aerodynamics. A slide titled:
"The Lift Equation, Angle of Attack, and Whatnot". I'm pretty sure I majored in whatnot in college.
 
gibbons said:
Many, many of us continue to have a deep passion for flying in large part because we don't do it to make a living. It is an avocation, not a vocation, and it works best that way.
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For me it worked the opposite way. I had no particular interest in being a pilot as a profession when I first learned. It only slowly dawned on me that it was a possibility. I figure that as long as you have to work, you might as well do something that you enjoy and that interests you. It's true that flying for a living comes with all the baggage of it being a job and there are certainly days when I would rather not be in the airplane. However, at this point (30 years from when I started learning) I can't think of any other field I would rather be in. I sometimes speculate about whether or not I would have been able to sustain my interest in flying if I had gone some other route. There would have been the question of whether or not I could have continued to justify it financially, as well as the question of whether or not it would have held my interest over such a long span of time.
 
I am going to follow everyones advice and finish accounting, but I am also going to start at the flying school. Maybe 3 times a week and during the summer I can take some aviation courses and pick up flying more. Also I think my parents may be pulling through, because I talked about getting a loan briefly just mentioned it informaly and my dad was like dont do anything yet we will talk about it later and my mom said this between you and your dad and she is happy now too.
 
integra144 said:
I am going to follow everyones advice and finish accounting, but I am also going to start at the flying school. Maybe 3 times a week and during the summer I can take some aviation courses and pick up flying more. Also I think my parents may be pulling through, because I talked about getting a loan briefly just mentioned it informaly and my dad was like dont do anything yet we will talk about it later and my mom said this between you and your dad and she is happy now too.
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Sounds like they're figuring it out. Perhaps they looked a bit deaper and saw the advertising from the big flight academies.:D:rofl: Anyway it goes, it sounds like their primary concern was you life and safety, and that's a big deal for a lot of parents to start letting go of and turning over to you. It's a multifaceted thing really. First, their primary duty for years now has benn protecting and providing for you, seeing that responsability now starting to shift to your shoulders is a signal that you are growing up, which means soon you will be leaving, their lives are going to be majorly altered, and it's also a big hit that says "We are getting old" and it's one of those points in life where our own mortality is held up high for us to have a good look at. It's scary for them, and it's tough to be scared on several fronts when you know there is nothing you can do about it. So have some pity on you poor paents, this is as tough and traumatic of a time in their lives as yours. The good thing is they appear to be over the initial scare hump and are figuring out the best way to make the transition. As to the accounting, I think it's really a good idea. If you're going to shoot for the majors, you'll need a degree anyway. Accounting is a good trade to have in your pocket. I know guys who work from mid December to June every year doing taxes, make a few hundred grand, and take the rest of the year off. It will also stand you well in your first few years as a pilot as a supplementary (or more likely primary) income. The nice thing about doing accountacy, is that you can do it independantly on your schedule, and with the internet, you can access files you need (or carry them in a laptop) and work on them when and where you have time. Just keep your chin up and take it easy on your parents, they are not your enemy. You have the world in front of you, play your cards right and you can have an excellent life.
 
Henning said:
Sounds like they're figuring it out. Perhaps they looked a bit deaper and saw the advertising from the big flight academies.:D:rofl: Anyway it goes, it sounds like their primary concern was you life and safety, and that's a big deal for a lot of parents to start letting go of and turning over to you. It's a multifaceted thing really. First, their primary duty for years now has benn protecting and providing for you, seeing that responsability now starting to shift to your shoulders is a signal that you are growing up, which means soon you will be leaving, their lives are going to be majorly altered, and it's also a big hit that says "We are getting old" and it's one of those points in life where our own mortality is held up high for us to have a good look at. It's scary for them, and it's tough to be scared on several fronts when you know there is nothing you can do about it. So have some pity on you poor paents, this is as tough and traumatic of a time in their lives as yours. The good thing is they appear to be over the initial scare hump and are figuring out the best way to make the transition. As to the accounting, I think it's really a good idea. If you're going to shoot for the majors, you'll need a degree anyway. Accounting is a good trade to have in your pocket. I know guys who work from mid December to June every year doing taxes, make a few hundred grand, and take the rest of the year off. It will also stand you well in your first few years as a pilot as a supplementary (or more likely primary) income. The nice thing about doing accountacy, is that you can do it independantly on your schedule, and with the internet, you can access files you need (or carry them in a laptop) and work on them when and where you have time. Just keep your chin up and take it easy on your parents, they are not your enemy. You have the world in front of you, play your cards right and you can have an excellent life.
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I think Henning is right on with his analysis of the change in your PARENTS' lives. And the nice thing about the schedule for taxes is that their busy period comes during that period (in the midwest, at least) when the weather precludes a lot of flying!
 
gprellwitz said:
Scott, sounds like your wife is an Angel in more ways than one. Good on you both!
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Thanks Grant. I just noticed the post! I can see why my wife couldn't resist posting. I will second what she said. My parents too didn't want me to become a pilot and I didn't for 10 years. I went the Army route and I really love what I do. If I learned anything is not the amount of money that is important but your passion for your profession. I'm now getting my fixed wing ratings and loving every minute of it...we are truely blessed live in a land that allows us follow our dreams.:)
 
wsuffa said:
Think of it this way: Would you continue to love your SO/spouse if you had to go to work and work side-by-side every single day? Most people can't do that.
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This idea mystifies me. Throughout most of history, families worked together to provide sustenance. Have you ever really known of family members working together where it was a problem?

I have worked in the next cubicle and the next office and one hall down from my husband. It is very comfortable for both of us. Right this minute, I'm sitting one table over from him as he writes code for one program and I work on another.

We help each other. There is no political in-fighting between us. We trust each other. We still love each other.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Have you ever really known of family members working together where it was a problem?
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We weren't technically related because we weren't married, but for a while in my early to mid 20s I lived with, was in business with, and worked with a guy... in an airplane. He was the pilot, I was the camera operator. Never again.

Interestingly, he is still a good friend and has a much more favorable memory of those years than I have. I'd like to think that I would do better at it now since I am older but who knows. Since then I have always drawn a line between personal and work relationships.
 
tonycondon said:
Only if doing hellish math and computer programming makes you a better pilot.
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I disagree. Once I learned what the hell Calculus really was (in relation to the real world), and all the Physics (+ Statics, Dynamics, yadda yadda) related to it, I started seeing mathematical relationships all around. And I'm just a lowly EE. I really think all of those classes I hated at the time have really helped me to understand a lot of the minute details of what's really going on when I'm flying.

Believe it or not, I actually use a lot of my engineering knowledge when I'm driving the truck. I use my knowledge of dynamics to cheat the pre-weigh systems at scales and get bypassed. I use my knowledge of statics when a shipper asks me if it's OK to put that last 4,000 pound roll of paper right on the tail end of the trailer (Equations and all!) so I won't have to drive to a scale only to have to return and have them pull it back off. I think about the concepts I learned about friction when I'm driving on a slippery road and that directly affects my technique (and is the reason I've been the one sent to pick up a trailer that's been jackknifed when the storm isn't even over yet).

Whether you realize it or not, I bet you do use your engineering knowledge when you're flying, maybe not even consciously, and it does make you a better pilot. :yes:
 
Just now I visited this thread for the first time. As soon as I read the first few lines of the 1st post I knew the OP was Taiwanese and he is first gen American.

See, my first CFI was exactly the same. First born, first gen, from Taiwan, 5'6", and pushed into a respectable occupation. After 10 years as an acccountant for a Fortune 100 company he couldn't stand it any longer.

He had enough saved so he felt confident to quit his job to immerse himself in learning to fly. His parents disowned him. That hurt him very much. Various family members would call him to dissuade him from his foolishness, even his brother (a well renowned surgeon) made personal visits to talk him out of it. But he was resolute.

I was amazed by his tenacity. After being a CFI for 2 yrs he got picked up by Continental as a FO in jets. His parents came to visit during which they again embraced their son because they were proud of his accomplishments and his determination.

Now he is a Capt with Cathay and lives once again in Taiwan. After all these years we still talk a few times per year. He is very content in his life. He still says he would have probably died if he had stayed in accounting.

There is some irony in the fact that his move back to Tawain was to return to his family roots, he's the only one of his siblings to do so. Remember, he was the black sheep....

As Henning said, your parents are coming from a different place than you. They have been your protectors and their actions are guided by their love for you, no matter how misplaced you think those expressions are.
 
tonycondon said:
Only if doing hellish math and computer programming makes you a better pilot. Although I do like my AeroE students the best, but I think thats because I 'speak their language'. I guess the degree in aerospace will help you understand the aerodynamics of the flying better, as you should have a firm grasp on the lift equation, angle of attack and whatnot. I can personally testify that being a pilot and CFI has had basically zero benefit on getting the AeroE degree, except being able to interject a little bit of realism into the theory occasionally.
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What really makes a stellar airman (or in this case, Richard, airwoman, as in the OP), is the capacity to integrate a whole picture and exercise good judgement. Great technical skill is only a proxy. Judgement is what make the airman (airwoman), just exactly what the pilot at the Florida fly in didn't have.

http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?p=694755#post694755
 
bbchien said:
What really makes a stellar airman (or in this case, Richard, airwoman, as in the OP), is the capacity to integrate a whole picture and exercise good judgement. Great technical skill is only a proxy. Judgement is what make the airman (airwoman), just exactly what the pilot at the Florida fly in didn't have.

http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?p=694755#post694755
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Wait wait, hang on, are you telling me Integra is a girl? Well girl, what I'm about to say isn't politically correct and you may consider it philosophically repugnant, it is however accurate. As a 5'6 asian gal, you have a potential to get exactly what you want in this industry, especially at the majors. You see, you're a double minority, and luckily for you, the current asian stereotype plays in your favor. Right, wrong, good and bad is all irrelevant. That's just the way the world is and you play your individual hand the way it was dealt. You owe no appologies or excuses. Now if you're cute as well, that is a double edged sword. The mistakes I see cute girls make is to try to hide it and be "one of the guys" (makes you look like you have confidence problems and have other things to hide), and the other is to flaunt it (they see problems and distractions in the workplace. A blatantly pretty girl has a very disrupting effect of raising testosterone induced actions among a group of men.:D). It's a fine line you have to play, be pretty, the only person you would interview with where that could be a negative is with an ugly woman, and since you'll never interview with one, so much for that (another reality be it right or wrong). Be confident in your looks and smile. You may actually get tested with flirting, acknowledge with a glowing smile, be polite and decline, a little giggle is optional. Do not return the flirt in any affirmative way, complimented but remaining professional is the best course. You most definitely have a future in the aviation industry available to you. Aviation needs more women in it, and there is no question that that is a "right". Some of my favorite people in the business have been gals including a couple of my CFIs and one of my DEs. Back when United got in trouble over the issue and had to recruit gals, my friend and CFI went there and was quite happy. I think she flies for Fed Ex now.
 
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gprellwitz said:
Is Integra female? I didn't get that from the original post, not that it's particularly relevant.
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I disagree, it's very relevant and makes things trickier, nothing insurmountable or even not to be used to advantage, but trickier and not to be ignored.
 
I AM A MALE and proud!!! ps was also that way a birth
Although, my parents offered to pay the $30,000 in the end they were really sarcastic about it and kept joking and poking fun at my career. So I mainly threw the check back at them and told them I was going to fund this career myself. I am currently looking for jobs as I rather not take out a loan. I should be starting lessons next month after I find a job. At least now no one makes fun of my dream career and they actually take it seriously. I applied to many jobs in both the aviation and general sales industry. For aviation I applied to Jet Blues Provisioning and Ground Crew. Does anyone know exactly what they do? The Jet Blue site was very vague. I also calculate that I at least need to work 35 hours a week at 10 dollars an hour for six months to break even for the Private License which was quoted at $8500.

Thanks for everyone’s help I am now on track. The start of a new journey has begun...
 
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AuntPeggy said:
This idea mystifies me. Throughout most of history, families worked together to provide sustenance. Have you ever really known of family members working together where it was a problem?
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Yes, I have.

And I've known of situations where it was a real problem for others in the office - seen it first-hand. I had the misfortune one time to be in a meeting where two brothers (both executives) at one company got into a real screaming match over a small issue. Not only was it bad for them, it was also bad for others.

I suspect that the nature of the business changes things - small, family run entreperneural businesses have a different character than large corporations.
 
integra144 said:
I AM A MALE and proud!!! ps was also that way a birth
Although, my parents offered to pay the $30,000 in the end they were really sarcastic about it and kept joking and poking fun at my career. So I mainly threw the check back at them and told them I was going to fund this career myself. I am currently looking for jobs as I rather not take out a loan. I should be starting lessons next month after I find a job. At least now no one makes fun of my dream career and they actually take it seriously. I applied to many jobs in both the aviation and general sales industry. For aviation I applied to Jet Blues Provisioning and Ground Crew. Does anyone know exactly what they do? The Jet Blue site was very vague. I also calculate that I at least need to work 35 hours a week at 10 dollars an hour for six months to break even for the Private License which was quoted at $8500.

Thanks for everyone’s help I am now on track. The start of a new journey has begun...
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Hum, not sure I would have done the same thing. I can take a lot of teasing for money. Let them laugh at you, but laugh all the way to the bank.

Provisioning and Ground Crew sound like you would be stocking the kitchens and throwing bags outside in all kinds of weather.

Missa
 
Missa said:
Hum, not sure I would have done the same thing. I can take a lot of teasing for money. Let them laugh at you, but laugh all the way to the bank.

Provisioning and Ground Crew sound like you would be stocking the kitchens and throwing bags outside in all kinds of weather.

Missa
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Yes, I can put up with a lot for $30K. And your description sounds plausible, and not the sort of thing you'll be paid $10/hr for.
 
Missa: Integra's still young - his pride means a lot to him.

Integra: Pride is a good thing - but so is practicality.

Instead of refusing your parents money, why not ACCEPT the money, and use it for your education. Once you begin flying for $ (which will take more than 8k), take 10% of every paycheck and save it away in a special account - make it interest bearing - or put it in CDs or something.

Every year, add $1,500 to the memory of the $30,000 your parents gave you.

When you have enough money saved up to equal that 30k + 5% interest, withdraw the money, and give your parents a certified check for what they loaned you plus 5% interest per year (non compounded).

Success is the best revenge. :D

OH yeah - don't TELL your parents you plan to pay them back with interest.

Make it a surprise. :D
 
Greebo said:
When you have enough money saved up to equal that 30k + 5% interest, withdraw the money, and give your parents a certified check for what they loaned you plus 5% interest per year (non compounded).

Success is the best revenge. :D

OH yeah - don't TELL your parents you plan to pay them back with interest.

Make it a surprise. :D
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Totally unneccessary, IMHO, to certify a check to your parents. It costs money and makes it slower to become good funds when deposited.

-Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
Totally unneccessary, IMHO, to certify a check to your parents. It costs money and makes it slower to become good funds when deposited.

-Skip
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It is done to prove a point.
 
integra144 said:
I AM A MALE and proud!!! ps was also that way a birth
Although, my parents offered to pay the $30,000 in the end they were really sarcastic about it and kept joking and poking fun at my career.
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Bad mistake, NEVER turn down money. Pride is of very little value in aviation, you use every trick and advantage you can muster. It's not about an issue, it's about an attitude. You can just take the sarcasm with the smug satisfaction that you are achieving your objective. As the old saying goes, "The best revenge is success". By cutting your own throat here, your chances of success have diminished, but it is still attainable. Don't make any more mistakes though, this is a tough world and you only get so many. I try to teach people in accident awareness that accidents are a chain of events, and you get six links in the chain then you die with the next mistake. Swallow your pride (I know it's hard for a young man) and keep your eye on the objective.
 
Missa said:
Hum, not sure I would have done the same thing. I can take a lot of teasing for money. Let them laugh at you, but laugh all the way to the bank.

Provisioning and Ground Crew sound like you would be stocking the kitchens and throwing bags outside in all kinds of weather.

Missa
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Don't forget dumping the potty....
 
Greebo said:
Missa: Integra's still young - his pride means a lot to him.

Integra: Pride is a good thing - but so is practicality.

Instead of refusing your parents money, why not ACCEPT the money, and use it for your education. Once you begin flying for $ (which will take more than 8k), take 10% of every paycheck and save it away in a special account - make it interest bearing - or put it in CDs or something.

Every year, add $1,500 to the memory of the $30,000 your parents gave you.

When you have enough money saved up to equal that 30k + 5% interest, withdraw the money, and give your parents a certified check for what they loaned you plus 5% interest per year (non compounded).

Success is the best revenge. :D

OH yeah - don't TELL your parents you plan to pay them back with interest.

Make it a surprise. :D
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Are you kidding? The way the industry is going? His parents will be dead by the time he saves up $30k +5%....
 
smigaldi said:
That requires special training and inside contacts. No one get that flush er plush job without a special favor
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Heh heh, yeah right... "You the new guy right? Do I have a job for you, reach in there and grab the potty jug, and oh yeah, someone got airsick and puked all over the lav, so clean that up to....":cheerswine::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Integra, are your parents adopting? I could sure use such a deal right now. It cost me a pretty penny to pay for a CFI ticket. Fortunately, the school I'll be working at will pay for my II and MEI. That's another $15k, easily.

It's time to swallow your pride and accept their help. You'll get it done a whole lot faster and you can apply yourself much more when you have less stress surrounding the training such as work and money worries.

Accept the money and thank your parents for their help.
 
smigaldi said:
Are you sure? Dr. Bruce is a trained professional and has many years of education and experience with these things. I would tend to defer to his judgment. :rofl::rofl::rofl: ;););)
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My apoloiges for the misstatement.

Previous posts, however stand as they are!
 
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