Paging Andrew, Scott, Ghery, Bill

[woodstock]

Hi

Is 450 yuan a lot of money on the Chinese economy? (i.e. will it buy 450 dollars worth of goods on their economy?)

It seems to be worth 70-80 USD, but, is it a car payment or a month's rent in Beijing, etc.

Thanks!

 

[ScottM]

450 yuan is about 60 USD. For some that is about a month's pay. Entry level engineers in the PRC who are employed by western companies are making about 2400 Yuan a month (300 USD)

For a westerner visiting Beijing, that is taxi fare to and from the airport with a little left over so a Coke and couple of mantous for a snack.

 

[woodstock]

Thanks Scott, perfect!

 

[bbchien]

Think of one Yuan as $.25. Dr. Bruce

 

[astanley]

450 yuan is about 60 USD. For some that is about a month's pay. Entry level engineers in the PRC who are employed by western companies are making about 2400 Yuan a month (300 USD)

For a westerner visiting Beijing, that is taxi fare to and from the airport with a little left over so a Coke and couple of mantous for a snack.

If you are a PRC resident, 500 yuan can work for housing, but it isn't exactly pretty.

For a westerner, expect western big city prices. IIRC the fully loaded spaces that most expats I knew (none left in the PRC... all in India or Brazil now) ran in excess of 50,000 yuan a month. Can't exactly escape the market...

(A good friend just left India -- IIRC he was paying 1.4 lakh rupees (140,000!) a month for a 150sqm flat. That's $3,500, in Delhi!)

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[astanley]

Further note: I've found that arbitrage doesn't exist if you compare living standards, as a whole, economy to economy. They Take It From You One Way Or Another. Guys like Henning et al can live on nothing, but most people aren't too stoked about that lifestyle. Especially in a place like India, you start incurring extra costs for things you did yourself back home -- all of my friends in India have home attendants (maids, cooks, handymen), very few cook themselves, all have drivers. The unit cost savings are quickly eroded by the lifestyle changes (driving in India borders on the insane, for example)

As a data point, in Japan, whisky is ridiculously inexpensive compared to the US. But Belgian beer is frighteningly expensive -- I drank Macallan 21 for 2200 JPY per glass at a place where Rodenbach Grand Cru was 1900 JPY per bottle. In the States, the Macallan would be $25-$40 a glass, and the Rodenbach about $9-$12.

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Further note: I've found that arbitrage doesn't exist if you compare living standards, as a whole, economy to economy. They Take It From You One Way Or Another. Guys like Henning et al can live on nothing, but most people aren't too stoked about that lifestyle. Especially in a place like India, you start incurring extra costs for things you did yourself back home -- all of my friends in India have home attendants (maids, cooks, handymen), very few cook themselves, all have drivers. The unit cost savings are quickly eroded by the lifestyle changes (driving in India borders on the insane, for example)

<SNIP>

Cheers,

-Andrew

That is changing- at least in Kolkata. People I know there often drive themselves. They seem to do their own laundry. They still use handymen, but there are places where you can choose the items for the kitchen/bath/etc. The maid is more likely to be shared (something like MerryMaids in the USA, just not organized in a company). The maid may come in once or twice a week. It seems the cook is shared too- doesn't work in a single household as in days gone by.

Kolkata traffic has gone from insane to more like driving in NYC despite more cars. A few "flyovers" and more respect for the cops/traffic lights made a big difference. It's not fast- just more predictable.

I suspect the tax laws have been changed somewhat in India since I'm told they used to have a really high tax rate for people with high incomes. Companies got around this by paying for the maid, cook, driver and car, dhobi (washer person), moli (gardener), and even chowkidhar (gate keeper if you owned a decent sized estate) instead of money.

 

[astanley]

That is changing- at least in Kolkata. People I know there often drive themselves. They seem to do their own laundry. They still use handymen, but there are places where you can choose the items for the kitchen/bath/etc. The maid is more likely to be shared (something like MerryMaids in the USA, just not organized in a company). The maid may come in once or twice a week. It seems the cook is shared too- doesn't work in a single household as in days gone by.

Kolkata traffic has gone from insane to more like driving in NYC despite more cars. A few "flyovers" and more respect for the cops/traffic lights made a big difference. It's not fast- just more predictable.

I suspect the tax laws have been changed somewhat in India since I'm told they used to have a really high tax rate for people with high incomes. Companies got around this by paying for the maid, cook, driver and car, dhobi (washer person), moli (gardener), and even chowkidhar (gate keeper if you owned a decent sized estate) instead of money.

I've never known someone who has lived in Kolkata -- most people I know live in Bengaluru, Pune, Mumbai, or Delhi -- so it may indeed be regional. But, a very close friend who just very recently returned had the whole shooting match -- then again, they lived in the "VVIP" district of Delhi, down near the Embassies (near Mansingh Road), so it's hard to keep all of this in perspective.

I had a shot to live in India for 2 years... sometimes sad I missed it.

-ars