dtuuri
Final Approach
Is there a law against being paid as a "sort of", not literal, safety pilot?
PA-31 down at TCL
- Thread starter ktup-flyer
- Start date
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
I would think so if he did not have a current medical. A Comm Cert would allow him to be compensated, but lack of a medical wouldn't allow that I believe.
dtuuri
Final Approach
I think only required crew members need a medical, not CFIs. Still, there might be more facts we don't know. Interesting article here, where it says he was an "open qualified pilot". I want one of them too!
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
Without a medical he could ride as a safety pilot. Accepting compensation for it without a current medical I believe would be forbidden. @midlifeflyer might be able to share his opinion, or @denverpilot always has one. Nate?
I'm not entirely sure what's being asked (haven't been flowing the thread), so this might not answer it:
A 91.109(c) safety pilot requires a medical, because 61.23 requires the appropriate medical certificate when acting as PIC or as required crewmember. A safety pilot is a required crewmember. CFI or or ordinary mortal doesn't matter. "Appropriate" is BasicMed if the safety pilot is acting as PIC; Third Class if not acting as PIC (yeah, makes no sense but it's the way it is).
If we're not talking about a required 91.109(c) safety pilot, but just someone who is, say watching out the window while you learn how to use your EFB, the "watcher" is just a passenger with no official crew function. Doesn't have to be a pilot at all (there is actually an ancient Chief Counsel opinion saying the assignment of duties does not make one a crewmember). I'll leave the wisdom of doing that to others.
CFIs authorization to be compensated for flight instruction is not in any way related to whether the CFI acts as required crew, has a medical, is pilot current, or anything else you can think of other than the act of providing instruction.
Tarheelpilot
Final Approach
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Tarheelpilot
Yeah but this guy had around a thousand hours multi time and managed to somehow not know/remember to switch tanks on a long cross country. I don’t see how that can be blamed on anyone besides the pilot.
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
In this situation, he was compensated as a "come along" pilot, maybe not necessarily as a safety pilot. He had no medical, CFI Cert expired, and assume he had at least a Commercial.
dtuuri
Final Approach
Ironic, ain't it? Medical isn't required, so he gets busted for not having a current CFI certificate while giving just a small amount of actual instruction. Had he given a LOT of actual instruction, illegal that it would have been, the accident probably wouldn't have occurred in the first place.
Dr. O
Pattern Altitude
This comment is general and not specific to the fatal crash in this thread.
Let me seize this opportunity to mount the soapbox and say (righteously) if there is a reason to land then you do it NOW - at the nearest or first airport of opportunity. You don't go another ten miles because it is a nicer airport.
Even at altitude you push the nose down and go for the first runway at hand. Yeah, that airport is likely a podunk without even so much as an airport dog around when you crawl out of the plane - but at least you are crawling out of the plane and not being picked out of the ashes by people trying like hell to hold their breath as long as possible...
Yes, it is hard to do. You will be criticized by every POA quarterback for not having any balls. (give em the finger)
Let me seize this opportunity to mount the soapbox and say (righteously) if there is a reason to land then you do it NOW - at the nearest or first airport of opportunity. You don't go another ten miles because it is a nicer airport.
Even at altitude you push the nose down and go for the first runway at hand. Yeah, that airport is likely a podunk without even so much as an airport dog around when you crawl out of the plane - but at least you are crawling out of the plane and not being picked out of the ashes by people trying like hell to hold their breath as long as possible...
Yes, it is hard to do. You will be criticized by every POA quarterback for not having any balls. (give em the finger)
denverpilot
Tied Down
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
I get he was busted for accepting compensation from the accident pilot. The flight instruction he performed with an expired CFI Cert I interpret from the article quoted above as being a separate occurrence. That's what I get out of all this anyway.
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
denverpilot
Tied Down
Who, the expired CFI, or the PIC Nate?
LOL...
BarryCooper
Pre-takeoff checklist
Yes the PIC was the one that got 5 other people killed
Lindberg
Final Approach
Setting aside the instruction that he said he wasn't giving, if the owner wasn't under the hood, it's a single-pilot airplane. So the CFI was a passenger. I know of no law against paying your passengers to come along.
You got me curious, so I started looking but all I saw were the media accounts of an action being taken against Phillips. I wouldn't rely on those to tell me about a formal legal proceeding. And the TV news piece indicates there was far more than this event involved.
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mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
But he was compensated by the owner/PIC, and had no medical.
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yes I mentioned that there are instances where he gave flight instruction, with an expired CFI, unrelated to the incident with the Navajo. Article said he was convicted and could face jail time.
Lindberg
Final Approach
And if he was giving instruction, that would be a violation. But if he wasn't giving instruction, what would the violation be?
dtuuri
Final Approach
I'm not saying this is right, but to me if the CFI signs the logbook--it's "instruction". If not, it's just unloggable "advice" or "opinion" or "suggestion", especially when to another licensed pilot.
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I decided to look.
The Indictment contains 60 counts, events covering a period from 2013-2016. In includes serving as a commercial pilot in air transportation for various companies and people, 6 counts of providing flight instruction, 2 of falsification for an and IPC and Flight Review he gave to Farese, all without being properly certificated. Plus, one count of obstruction of justice (lying to the investigators).
He pleaded guilty to one count of the acting as a commercial pilot and one count of instruction to Farese.
The word "compensation" appear nowhere in wither the indictment or plea agreement.
The Indictment contains 60 counts, events covering a period from 2013-2016. In includes serving as a commercial pilot in air transportation for various companies and people, 6 counts of providing flight instruction, 2 of falsification for an and IPC and Flight Review he gave to Farese, all without being properly certificated. Plus, one count of obstruction of justice (lying to the investigators).
He pleaded guilty to one count of the acting as a commercial pilot and one count of instruction to Farese.
The word "compensation" appear nowhere in wither the indictment or plea agreement.
dtuuri
Final Approach
So, where does one find all this in the public record, including the evidence? The pics of the burned log pages don't support the guilty plea, IMO.
You find the information I looked at in the records of the US District Court for the Northern District of Mississippi. They are publicly accessible for anyone with a PACER account.
There is no evidence in the file, which is SOP when the result is a negotiated plea agreement. That's not public information unless and until the case goes to trial. Typically, with some exceptions provided by court rule and Constitutional law, there is no requirement for a federal prosecutor to disclose the evidence until trial, even to the defendant. Practicaly speaking, some disclosures are made during the course of negotiating a plea. Evidence was presented to a Grand Jury proceedings, but those are are confidential. (For those somewhat familiar, the procedures are generally very different in state court, where open files by prosecutors is common.)
I've retrieved some of the most relevant documents and placed them in this shared box.net folder. The ones most will be interested in (though even they are devoid of specifics) are:
The Indictment
The Plea Agreement
Sentencing is scheduled for August 2, with the pre-sentence report due July 26.
dtuuri
Final Approach
Thank you for that information, Mark. I wish the specific evidence were included because "...serving as an airman..." is too vague for me to understand. Does it apply to non-required crewmembers along just for the benefit of their experience? Or was he acting as the PIC? Can't tell. What if he was riding right seat and handling the radios? It looks like he did sign off an IPC, but even there we have to go by the FAA's word for it.
I understand why. When I see a case like this I'd like to be able to analyze it. But that's the way federal criminal prosecutions go.
I can only speculate: (1) there was enough evidence to interest the US Justice Department in bringing a criminal prosecution which, if it went to trial, would ultimately require proof beyond a reasonable doubt; (2) that the evidence showed Phillips exercised privileges which, under federal statute and FAA regulation, required a pilot certificate or an instructor's certificate. Not that he was just a passenger who give some advice fro time to time. That does not mean the evidence was strong on all counts - the strongest evidence might not even have been on the counts pleaded to. But bringing criminal prosecutions such as this one against pilots, while becoming more common, is still rare, and, so far, appears to be limited to fraud and particularly egregious conduct.