PA-30 or Debonair (yes its a comparison)

MyassisDragon said:
What do you think the prop clearance is compared to a Mooney M20c? (only one I have experience flying) The mooney seemed pretty close to the ground
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Probably a bit better, though you want to make sure that you have the stock nose wheel instead of the STC'ed smaller nose wheel if you are going to go in and out of unimproved strips regularly. It will save some on the prop blade wear.

Over in the Airworthy Comanche forum on Delphi, we have an owner who I believe has been based out of a fairly short grass strip for much of the 40+ years he has owned his Twinkie, so I know it can be done.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Have you considered the PA23 or PA27 line? They seem to be much better airplanes for grass.
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They are! They have a Cub airfoil so that is pretty much all you need to know. Also, the Aztec (Aztruck) is likely to be below gross for most private owners so you have that going for you as well.
 
when i was a kid my neighbor had an ~1800 ft strip at his farm, i learned to fly his champ there whan i was 12. He had a twin comanche there. When he got into his upper 70's his insurance company was looking for a reason to drop him so they told him their were going to require a minimum 2000ft runway. John wrote a letter to the FAA saying there was an error on his airport data and the actual runway length was 2100ft. Nextchart revision, there was a "21" there and he was insured again (I'm probably mis-remembering the exact numbers but you get the idea).

John is long gone now and his twinky belongs to someone else. I've been back to his strip in my travel and air and it's comfortable enough with reduced fuel.

John also had an 75hp ercoupe and that was the butt clencher airplane to get out of that strip, the twinkie was easy by comparison.
 
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MyassisDragon said:
What do you think the prop clearance is compared to a Mooney M20c? (only one I have experience flying) The mooney seemed pretty close to the ground
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The Mooney has 10" prop clearance, and the pucks on all three gear give virtually zero compression during taxi and departure. When the grass is long, I pick up green stains on the prop tips.
 
I just wanted to follow up on the comparison post I started a while back so I could happily say not every "this vs that" post I started was a fruitless game of tire kicking. :rolleyes:

After months of searching, debating, flying I ended up at the top of my budget with a bonanza V35B with IO-550. (I will post details after closing next week, and its sitting in my hangar so I dont jinx it)

Yes I know, I was shooting for a Deb, but after flying and poking around in a Bo with the large luggage door and rear seats on sliding tracks, my wife simply said "THIS ONE!!":yikes: to which I replied OK:dunno: (to the type, not exact one we flew). Then the search was on for the next few months for the right one......

Thanks for the input guys. :)
 
Congrats! That's a friggin' sexy airplane! Can't wait to see pics.
 
MyassisDragon said:
I just wanted to follow up on the comparison post I started a while back so I could happily say not every "this vs that" post I started was a fruitless game of tire kicking. :rolleyes:

After months of searching, debating, flying I ended up at the top of my budget with a bonanza V35B with IO-550. (I will post details after closing next week, and its sitting in my hangar so I dont jinx it)

Yes I know, I was shooting for a Deb, but after flying and poking around in a Bo with the large luggage door and rear seats on sliding tracks, my wife simply said "THIS ONE!!":yikes: to which I replied OK:dunno: (to the type, not exact one we flew). Then the search was on for the next few months for the right one......

Thanks for the input guys. :)
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Nice.

I always scratch my head when someone buys a Bo and doesn't get a V tail, kinda takes the point out of it.
 
MyassisDragon said:
I just wanted to follow up on the comparison post I started a while back so I could happily say not every "this vs that" post I started was a fruitless game of tire kicking. :rolleyes:

After months of searching, debating, flying I ended up at the top of my budget with a bonanza V35B with IO-550.
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Ruh-roh. That big dog gonna hunt. I hope you really, really like it, cuz it's gonna be yours for-ev-er. :yes:

Nicely done.
 
And here I was hoping to talk you into an Aztec. ;)

Congratulations! Enjoy!
 
Both were great airplanes in their day and if they've been properly maintained, they're still great airplanes. A smart twin owner is going to budget the time and money to go up with an MEI once or twice a year for OEI proficiency training or he's better off in a single.
 
James331 said:
Nice.

I always scratch my head when someone buys a Bo and doesn't get a V tail, kinda takes the point out of it.
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I have also always liked the looks since I was a little ankle biter ...

After flying a V35 and talking to guys who own F33's the general consensus regarding the handling of the aircraft was they were pretty much the same (IE tail wag) and this might be from the longer body (on later models) or aileron rudder bungee interconnect more than it was the v-tail. :dunno:

So I opted for a v-tail since the $$ was less than a comparable F33 and I made sure a yaw damper was on the required equipment list (or I priced it in) due to the possible wag.
 
Dead Stick said:
Both were great airplanes in their day and if they've been properly maintained, they're still great airplanes. A smart twin owner is going to budget the time and money to go up with an MEI once or twice a year for OEI proficiency training or he's better off in a single.
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Agreed on this point. Sim training is also good, but seldom required for small twins.

If you're good at it, though, it's satisfying for the instructor to jump out of his chair and say "You were supposed to crash!" :)
 
MyassisDragon said:
So I opted for a v-tail since the $$ was less than a comparable F33 and I made sure a yaw damper was on the required equipment list (or I priced it in) due to the possible wag.
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I don't recall the yaw damper being required equipment list on any V tail, but I admit never making a complete search. Maybe at the very end of production it is. Even so, it doesn't do much to solve the tail wag. From a purely empirical process, with absolutely no engineering I've come up with the theory that the tail wag has more to do with the wing and fuselage than the V-tail.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Agreed on this point. Sim training is also good, but seldom required for small twins.

If you're good at it, though, it's satisfying for the instructor to jump out of his chair and say "You were supposed to crash!" :)
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Sim training has MANY advantages over the real airplane. But there are sims and then there are sims. The "cheap" generic sims are good for procedures and can really help the light twin owner/pilot hone his responses to the loss of an engine. The problem with sims (even Level D) is that as good as they are they're still not the airplane; but most of the time it's not an issue.
 
docmirror said:
I don't recall the yaw damper being required equipment list on any V tail, but I admit never making a complete search. Maybe at the very end of production it is. Even so, it doesn't do much to solve the tail wag. From a purely empirical process, with absolutely no engineering I've come up with the theory that the tail wag has more to do with the wing and fuselage than the V-tail.
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I think he meant his personal requirements list for buying one.
 
StinkBug said:
I think he meant his personal requirements list for buying one.
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:yes:

I know i could keep my feet on the rudders and learn to counter act it, but I like throwing the switch and letting the servo's do the work....
 
MyassisDragon said:
:yes:

I know i could keep my feet on the rudders and learn to counter act it, but I like throwing the switch and letting the servo's do the work....
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Tell us more. Active yaw damping? Hmmmm, maybe a V35B only thing.
 
Dead Stick said:
Sim training has MANY advantages over the real airplane. But there are sims and then there are sims. The "cheap" generic sims are good for procedures and can really help the light twin owner/pilot hone his responses to the loss of an engine. The problem with sims (even Level D) is that as good as they are they're still not the airplane; but most of the time it's not an issue.
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The biggest aspect of sim training is the learning/practice of procedures and habits, rather than understanding real performance or learning to fly. Hence both having their merits.

I went to SimCom about 2 years ago to use their 421 sim. While I had issues with the instructor (he made it too easy), the experience was still valuable and ifelt more proficient after the experience. I hadn't flown much the previous year, which was part of my motivation for going.
 
docmirror said:
Tell us more. Active yaw damping? Hmmmm, maybe a V35B only thing.
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The one installed on my plane is active, but there are a few other options I have heard of Some are passive like an AirSkeg?

This is the one I have.
https://secure.sarasotaavionics.com/Manuals/stec/yawdamper.pdf
I think its $7-8k to have one installed depending on your autopilot.

Dont think its special to V tails (maybe this Stec one is) cause I talked to a friend who pilots business jets and king airs who mentioned the longer body planes he flew have yaw dampers also. :dunno:
 
OK, I got it. It's an STC thing. I heard of them, but never used or needed one. I just keep my $11 WalMart sneaker sitting on both rudders in the bumpies.
 
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