PA-28- 180 annual

Tom-D

Tom-D

Taxi to Parking
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Feb 23, 2005
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Tom-D
The saga started this morning, 2 hours into the inspection and servicing as I go, I have a list of discrepancies, birds nest in the tail cone, #3 cylinder drain line cut thru by the baffling, bolt broken off in the accessory case split line, and 40/80 compression in #3, no registration in aircraft.

Trouble shooting the #3 cylinder I found the valve is closed all the way, but still leaking out the exhaust. borescope shows a hot spot.

The other 3 cylinders show 76-78/80 all are chrome.

to be continued.
 
a piper and a lycoming, your least favorite things. This plane must be owned by a blood relative or your landlord.
 
JHW said:
a piper and a lycoming, your least favorite things. This plane must be owned by a blood relative or your landlord.
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Kinda, but no, I must support my habit. and it is next door to my hangar. I always pick the low hanging fruit. :)
 
Tom-D said:
Trouble shooting the #3 cylinder I found the valve is closed all the way, but still leaking out the exhaust.
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Hey, after a certain age we all leak out the exhaust every now and then...
 
The cylinder came of today, delivered to the cylinder shop, call came back, it has multiple cracks, it's chromed so it's junk.

The floors are up and it appears that this aircraft sat thru Mt. St. Hellen eruption, it has 1/4" of whitish grit under the floors.

I ain't cleaning that ****.
 
Ooh, inspect a little, fix a little, inspect a little, fix a little. The IA's favorite.
 
alfadog said:
Ooh, inspect a little, fix a little, inspect a little, fix a little. The IA's favorite.
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Cheap! Cheap! Cheap! Talk a lot, fix a little more.

With apologies to Meridith Wilson, author and composer of The Music Man. But that's what I heard when I read the above post.

John
 
Tom-D said:
The cylinder came of today, delivered to the cylinder shop, call came back, it has multiple cracks, it's chromed so it's junk.

The floors are up and it appears that this aircraft sat thru Mt. St. Hellen eruption, it has 1/4" of whitish grit under the floors.

I ain't cleaning that ****.
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Isn't that ash pretty corrosive?
 
Henning said:
Isn't that ash pretty corrosive?
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Shhhh. There are already so many PA28's for sale it won't matter if this one is scrapped soon. So just leave that stuff in there till its done cooking.
 
Last edited:
Three of the things you mentioned should not have happened. The pilots who flew the plane should have found the birds' nest, the owner should ensured the airworthiness certificate was present, and someone who inspected the plane between the Mt. St. Helens eruption and now should have found and removed the ash.
 
Frank said:
Three of the things you mentioned should not have happened. The pilots who flew the plane should have found the birds' nest

So tell me, is removing the tail cone on your preflight checklist?

, the owner should ensured the airworthiness certificate was present

Not if it is out of annual and the owner has it at home in a safe place until the airplane flys again.

, and someone who inspected the plane between the Mt. St. Helens eruption and now should have found and removed the ash.

Repeat after me slowly ... inspection is not repair (lather, rinse, repeat).
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Jim...
 
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

So tell me, is removing the tail cone on your preflight checklist?

No, but looking in where the stabilator spar comes through is, and I have found birds' nests.

, the owner should ensured the airworthiness certificate was present

Not if it is out of annual and the owner has it at home in a safe place until the airplane flies again.

Since the owner knows the mechanic will check for the Certificate of Airworthiness, he might as well leave it in the aircraft.

, and someone who inspected the plane between the Mt. St. Helens eruption and now should have found and removed the ash.

Repeat after me slowly ... inspection is not repair (lather, rinse, repeat).

Repeat after me "Appendix D to Part 43—Scope and Detail of Items (as Applicable to the Particular Aircraft) To Be Included in Annual and 100-Hour Inspections says:

(a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing, and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine."

Lather on.
 
weirdjim said:
Two things ... "thoroughly" is in the eye of the IA. And I've had a couple of female IAs that told me that this sentence didn't apply to them.

Jim
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Not only am I an A&P, but oddly enough an attorney, as well. The meaning of the words is subject to rules of statutory interpretation, which means that "thoroughly" means what a reasonable person would understand it to mean, and the court will generally give deference to the FAA's interpretations in that light. There is no way that leaving a 1/4 inch of volcanic ash would be a reasonable interpretation of thoroughly cleaned. Good luck keeping your certificate if you rely on another interpretation and you get called on it.

Another rule of statutory interpretation is that "he" means "he or she" unless the explicit wording of the statute or regulation provides a different meaning. The female IAs who do not think the sentence applies to them are mistaken, and I would advise them not to rely on their interpretation in dealing with the FAA or when conducting inspections.
 
Frank said:
Good luck keeping your certificate if you rely on another interpretation and you get called on it.

and I would advise
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Well, lessee here, my logbook says A&P in '78, which prolly makes it older than you are, and you know? Never once a visit from a Fed to question me.

And I thought "free" (as in free advice) was the only obscene 4-letter word in the attorney's lexicon.

Jim
 
Tom-D said:
The floors are up and it appears that this aircraft sat thru Mt. St. Hellen eruption, it has 1/4" of whitish grit under the floors.
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Where is the ash? My PA28-140 doesn't have floors to take up. It has the tunnel down the middle where the control cables run and the closed area under the rear seat but otherwise, except for sound deadening material and carpet, what you see on the inside is the flip side of what you see from the outside.
 
weirdjim said:
Well, lessee here, my logbook says A&P in '78, which prolly makes it older than you are, and you know? Never once a visit from a Fed to question me.

And I thought "free" (as in free advice) was the only obscene 4-letter word in the attorney's lexicon.

Jim
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My A dates to 1972 and my P dates to 1976. Bar admission was 1981.

I am not in practice, although I just had to fill out my IOLTA and Pro Bono reports to maintain my admitted status. I get to talk to the FAA a little more than most folks do, but usually not in adversarial relationships. Lawyers don't say "free," we say "pro bono" so everyone thinks we are cool.

I think we may be about the same age as I had to wait for my 18th birthday to get my A license in the mail.
 
Sounds like a pair of crotchety old curmudgeons to me (is that a tad redundant?) :wink2:
 
Sounds like you should be able to pay for your hgr. with this one. Is this the same one that ran off the runway into the ditch.
 
Graueradler said:
Where is the ash? My PA28-140 doesn't have floors to take up. It has the tunnel down the middle where the control cables run and the closed area under the rear seat but otherwise, except for sound deadening material and carpet, what you see on the inside is the flip side of what you see from the outside.
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Do you need pictures?
 
brien23 said:
Sounds like you should be able to pay for your hgr. with this one. Is this the same one that ran off the runway into the ditch.
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Yep that's the one, They bought her cheap, well guess what.
I cleaned the trim cable sector today, I could not see the cables until I did.

Busy day today.
 
Frank said:
Not only am I an A&P, but oddly enough an attorney, as well. The meaning of the words is subject to rules of statutory interpretation, ........
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Oh Boy... This is gonna get GOOD....:yes:;)...


:popcorn::popcorn:
 
brien23 said:
Sounds like you should be able to pay for your hgr. with this one.
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That was my original point. The owner is paying for a lot of things that he could have taken care of himself. Maybe Tom and the owner have a good relationship, and all will work out well. Unfortunately, some owners report alleged "horror" stories about expensive annuals, and I have to wonder how many of those owners have failed to do simple things that would have dramatically reduced the costs of an inspection.

The owner could be paying the shop rate to get rid of the volcanic ash, remove a bird's nest and document that the C of A is not on board, and probably a lot more. If an owner did all the preventive maintenance allowed by Part 43 and had the documents assembled carefully, the inspection could cost a whole lot less.
 
Frank said:
That was my original point. The owner is paying for a lot of things that he could have taken care of himself. Maybe Tom and the owner have a good relationship, and all will work out well. Unfortunately, some owners report alleged "horror" stories about expensive annuals, and I have to wonder how many of those owners have failed to do simple things that would have dramatically reduced the costs of an inspection.

The owner could be paying the shop rate to get rid of the volcanic ash, remove a bird's nest and document that the C of A is not on board, and probably a lot more. If an owner did all the preventive maintenance allowed by Part 43 and had the documents assembled carefully, the inspection could cost a whole lot less.
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The CofA is there but no registration, it was being replaced we now have a new one. I write the gripes the owners fix them under my supervision. They will be there this weekend to do the clean up, and the other stuff I find.
 
OK so wait a minute.... Which one is smarter? Frank or Jim? I got lost in the I'm older argument!
 
flyingmoose said:
OK so wait a minute.... Which one is smarter? Frank or Jim? I got lost in the I'm older argument!
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It gets harder to focus as you get... Oh look its snowing! Wonder if I should cancel my flight today. Off to check pireps! What was this thread about?
 
We closed it up today, the look phase of the inspection is complete, the owners cleaned the bilges, the ADs were all previously complied with, the registration is in its proper place, we wait now until the cylinder replaced to run the out of annual engine turn up. and we'll be done.
I discovered today the owners bought the aircraft from an A&P-IA who included a fresh annual with the sale. (with out a pre-buy by anyone) we discussed what needs to be done in the next year, we'll see what transpires in the future.
 
Tom-D said:
We closed it up today, the look phase of the inspection is complete, the owners cleaned the bilges, the ADs were all previously complied with, the registration is in its proper place, we wait now until the cylinder replaced to run the out of annual engine turn up. and we'll be done.
I discovered today the owners bought the aircraft from an A&P-IA who included a fresh annual with the sale. (with out a pre-buy by anyone) we discussed what needs to be done in the next year, we'll see what transpires in the future.
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Just because the owner was a A&P/IA doesn't make it a good airplane, I have seen some of the worst kept planes by A&P/IA types. Also some of them are the worst pilots, it's hard to be a jack of all trades.
 
brien23 said:
Just because the owner was a A&P/IA doesn't make it a good airplane, I have seen some of the worst kept planes by A&P/IA types. Also some of them are the worst pilots, it's hard to be a jack of all trades.
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It's simply an attitude by either. If you don't have the proper attitude you won't be good at any thing you do, with the proper attitude every thing you do will be good.
 
Tom-D said:
It's simply an attitude by either. If you don't have the proper attitude you won't be good at any thing you do, with the proper attitude every thing you do will be good.
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Much of it is personality. Certain things are exponentially easier for people that have the right personality to be doing it.
 
jesse said:
Much of it is personality. Certain things are exponentially easier for people that have the right personality to be doing it.
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Isn't personally developed thru attitude? being a ***** is a personal choice.
 
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