Owning One Fifth of a Pitts?

kimberlyanne546

kimberlyanne546

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Kimberly
From Barnstormers.com

PITTS S1-S • $8,950 • PARTNERSHIP OFFERED • Pitts S1-S Serious Competition Aerobatics or just plain fun. Selling 4 shares. Any share sold before May 1, price reduced $1000. ($8950) After May, price $9950. With 4 others your investment is 20% of buying alone. Then you have 4 others paying 80% of your expenses. If you want a plane like this, you have 2 choices. Pay $8950 and share, or pay about $50,000 up to $250,000 or so and own alone, THEN PAY 100% OF THE EXPENSES ALONE. Marin, Santa Rosa, San Fran area. See Specs page. Ready to have some fun? CALL NOW. • Contact Tom Wilkerson, Owner - located Santa Rosa, CA USA • Telephone: 305-322-7581 • Posted January 5, 2012

http://www.barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=574925


I wonder how hard it would be to learn to fly one.
 
Shoot I'd bet the insurance would want every PIC to have a certain number of hours and all that stuff. Oh well.
 
It's a single-seater, so you'd have to get checked out in yet another plane anyway.

I'd advise saving your pennies.
 
Jim Logajan said:
It's a single-seater, so you'd have to get checked out in yet another plane anyway.

I'd advise saving your pennies.
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Well they aren't my pennies but I agree with you. Single seater, no fun. It was mostly a hypothetical.

Kimberly

PS - some cub owners on FB invited me to get some flying in Cubs. Maybe I will go back to tail dragger training after all.
 
Five is also the maximum number of private owners (if actively flying) you'd want in an aircraft, especially if you're all "weekend warriors". Someone's gonna get schedule bumped if three are flying competitions in that particular bird.
 
No plane got my attention more flying it the first time than a Pitts. Strongly suggest a little time in a 2 place Pitts before investing in one. You may love it, but an equal possibility is it would scare your socks off. :eek:
 
Lance F said:
No plane got my attention more flying it the first time than a Pitts. Strongly suggest a little time in a 2 place Pitts before investing in one. You may love it, but an equal possibility is it would scare your socks off. :eek:
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I am not getting one, just exploring barn stormers. It probably would scare me but I haven't been scared in an airplane before. Then again I've only been in "mild" ones.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
From Barnstormers.com

PITTS S1-S • $8,950 • PARTNERSHIP OFFERED • Pitts S1-S Serious Competition Aerobatics or just plain fun. Selling 4 shares. Any share sold before May 1, price reduced $1000. ($8950) After May, price $9950. With 4 others your investment is 20% of buying alone. Then you have 4 others paying 80% of your expenses. If you want a plane like this, you have 2 choices. Pay $8950 and share, or pay about $50,000 up to $250,000 or so and own alone, THEN PAY 100% OF THE EXPENSES ALONE. Marin, Santa Rosa, San Fran area. See Specs page. Ready to have some fun? CALL NOW. • Contact Tom Wilkerson, Owner - located Santa Rosa, CA USA • Telephone: 305-322-7581 • Posted January 5, 2012

http://www.barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=574925


I wonder how hard it would be to learn to fly one.
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You don't 'learn' to fly a single seat airplane, you check yourself out. I'd say after about 1-3 hrs of taxiing around and ground handling practice in it after you get your tailwheel endorsement should be good.
 
Henning said:
You don't 'learn' to fly a single seat airplane, you check yourself out. I'd say after about 1-3 hrs of taxiing around and ground handling practice in it after you get your tailwheel endorsement should be good.
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Have you ever landed one? Waaaaaaaay more fun than a tailwheel endorsement and a couple hours of taxi practice - way more.

But it's got to be one of the finest rides any pilot can ever have. There are many others but this is one of my top ten.

The timing is wrong or I'd snap up that share in a heartbeat... :redface:
 
Yep, I have about 50 hrs in various Pitts. Second tail dragger I flew was an S2B; we flew dual, but it was with a 540 and I had 5 hrs in a Citabria prior and 65TT. They are not that difficult really if you learned proper technique from the start. Best thing to do would be go find a S-2B to do your tailwheel endorsement. I'm pretty sure you can do it in Livermore.
 
Henning said:
You don't 'learn' to fly a single seat airplane, you check yourself out. I'd say after about 1-3 hrs of taxiing around and ground handling practice in it after you get your tailwheel endorsement should be good.
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Since this isn't the 1960's, before S-2's were available, I would recommend against that. ;)

Henning said:
Best thing to do would be go find a S-2B to do your tailwheel endorsement. I'm pretty sure you can do it in Livermore.
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I know a few folks who have gotten their tailwheel ensdorsement in a Pitts and it took over 15 hrs. I would recommend getting a TW endorsement in a Cub and then transitioning to the Pitts. IMO, this will be easier, less frustrating, cheaper, and quicker than starting in a Pitts.
 
I'm in a Christen Eagle partnership with 10 members. Our basic requirements are 500 total time and 50 hours of tailwheel. The vast majority of partnerships are fewer members, I don't think any of the underwriters would even cover a group like ours today, we're grandfathered in.

Partnerships are a great way to get started in airplane ownership. The best part is that you will always have close to half of them rarely fly the plane.

There are a number of places to go to get checked out for the S-1, many of them in California.

I was looking at this advert earlier. If the aircraft's condition is good, this is a great deal.
 
whifferdill said:
Since this isn't the 1960's, before S-2's were available, I would recommend against that. ;)



I know a few folks who have gotten their tailwheel ensdorsement in a Pitts and it took over 15 hrs. I would recommend getting a TW endorsement in a Cub and then transitioning to the Pitts. IMO, this will be easier, less frustrating, cheaper, and quicker than starting in a Pitts.
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How much time off the Pitts do you think it will take using the Cub first?
 
Henning said:
How much time off the Pitts do you think it will take using the Cub first?
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Since I don't actually do Pitts training (or any kind of training), I could only guess. Assuming an average pilot gets a TW endorsement in 4 hrs, then takes 8 hrs. to transition into the Pitts, that's still a good bit shorter than the upwards of 20 hrs the folks I know who have started in the Pitts have taken. Anything can be done, though. The Pitts is after all just another airplane...just one with some extreme characteristics compared to most other planes. I just think with something like a Cub that does everything in slow motion, and gives you latitude and time to see and correct clumsy rudder inputs, that it will ease the first few hours. But that's just my opinion. I would give much more consideration to Budd Davisson's 39 years of experience training pilots to fly Pitts'.

From his http://airbum.com site:

"If you have no tailwheel time, we suggest getting a tailwheel endorsement first, although this isn't a requirement, just a recommendation. Then, spend a couple of hours in the pattern flying something like a Citabria from the back seat to get used to the sight picture. This will shorten your training time in the Pitts considerably.

Depending on background and experience as well as what you are transitioning into (single-place, two-place Pitts, Model 12, etc.), figure 8-12 hours for the transition, although that seems to vary all over the block and is impossible to predict. We fly 2.0-2.2 hours a day, so you'll need a minimum of four to five days on site, exclusive of travel time, with five to six days being more common.

Incidentally, and this is a generality based on 29 (now 39) years of transitioning pilots into Pitts: Just because you have hundreds of hours in Cubs and Champs, don't make the assumption the Pitts is just another taildragger. This is especially true on pavement. On grass it's much easier. After the first few hours, the Pitts is indeed just another taildragger. During those first couple of hours, however, you'll see things happening faster than you can believe possible and there's a danger of the "fog factor" setting in: There's so much going on, you're seeing it all but understanding none of it. Yes, you might do just fine without specialized training. Maybe not. The result of not doing just fine is usually leaving the runway and going over on your back. Is it worth the chance with so many two-hole Pitts available for training?"

Kimberly, buy one on your own, and you'll only need 10 hrs of Pitts dual to get a policy regardless of your tailwheel time. Truly one of the coolest, funnest airplanes ever. :) No such thing as "hard" to fly airplanes, just ones that take some adjusting to, depending on what you're used to. The Pitts just happens to take more adjusting to than most other types. But it's all a continuum, and it's one to the next. No problem.
 
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I'm leery of anyone mentioning "investment" and "airplane" in the same advertisement. :idea:
 
flyersfan31 said:
I'm leery of anyone mentioning "investment" and "airplane" in the same advertisement. :idea:
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It's an investment in quality of life, in joy, in art and beauty.
 
SCCutler said:
It's an investment in quality of life, in joy, in art and beauty.
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Spike, you're so poetic.
:)

Actually those aspects of life are a good bit what makes it worth living so I agree, just teasing
 
I once thought I would like a Pitts, I got in it, taxied it around a little, then parked it and said no thanks.

I've flown taildraggers all my life, but I don't like a squirrelly one.
 
Tom-D said:
I once thought I would like a Pitts, I got in it, taxied it around a little, then parked it and said no thanks.

I've flown taildraggers all my life, but I don't like a squirrelly one.
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A Pitts is not squirrely. Just takes a light touch and a feel for the airplane. Visual cues are different and everything happens at warp speed compared to most airplanes. I do like something like a Cub or a Champ for primary tailwheel because a godd instructor can let the student get way out of shape and still recover. Also primary aerobatics in a Citabria or Decathalon again lets the student get way out of shape. Don
 
yakdriver said:
A Pitts is not squirrely. Just takes a light touch and a feel for the airplane. Visual cues are different and everything happens at warp speed compared to most airplanes. I do like something like a Cub or a Champ for primary tailwheel because a godd instructor can let the student get way out of shape and still recover. Also primary aerobatics in a Citabria or Decathalon again lets the student get way out of shape. Don
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That's called squirrelly by any name.
 
denverpilot said:
Five is also the maximum number of private owners (if actively flying) you'd want in an aircraft, especially if you're all "weekend warriors". Someone's gonna get schedule bumped if three are flying competitions in that particular bird.
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Disagree. Had 7 before. Worked beautifully.
 
Tom-D said:
That's called squirrelly by any name.
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No, it's called different. It takes a learning process just like any other airplane. A guy that's been flying a Citabria would have a tough time in your Fairchild and might think it is squirrelly the first couple of hours. The nice thing about Pitts, Eagle and Extra type airplanes is that they do exactly what you tell them to do and they react instantly. They have lots of control authority and are very light on the controls. A Pitts is like any other T/W airplane in that if you touch down going straight it will roll out straight only requiring small rudder inputs. It's just another airplane that has an undeserved reputation for being tough to fly. Don
 
Tom-D said:
That's called squirrelly by any name.
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A Pitts is not sqirreley by my definition, it's just tender. It still has positive directional stability; if you're going along it will go straight for a while if you don't do anything. To me 'squirrely' is when you take yourself off the controls and the craft takes an immediate diversion.
 
For most folks, I suspect it's going to take more than ten hours to truly be comfortable and confident in a Pitts. the S2b and C are a lot heavier than an S1, so the transition from dual in the back of a B or C is into a lot different plane, with no instructor to get you out of trouble.

Also I forget which of the S1 series are home builts, if not all, and not all have electrical systems. You will be sitting on a plywood board, limited visibility, limited cross country range, and of ourselves, single seat so no pax.

If you want to focus solely on acro flying or competition, then it might be a good deal.
 
A good check out for a single seat Pitts is the front seat of a S2A,B or C. You're sitting in about the same place in relashonship to the wings. Don
 
Tom-D said:
I've flown taildraggers all my life, but I don't like a squirrelly one.
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It's become cliche, but Curtis Pitts once said, "There are no squirrelly airplanes, just squirrelly pilots". It's simply an adjustment, and you're really training yourself not be 'squirrelly'. It's all about degree of sensitivity, and airplanes run the continuum. A Citabria pilot might think a J-3 is squirrelly at first, the same of a J-3 pilot moving into a Luscombe; and of a Luscombe pilot moving into a Pitts S-2C; and of an S-2C pilot moving into an S-1S, etc. It's just that the gamut pretty much ends with the bungee-gear S-1's. :) Not that Pitts pilots are necessarily any more skilled than Citabria pilots. It's not what you fly, it's how you fly it.
 
Shoot, you guys complain about a plane that flies just beautifully and has a few seconds of high attention required on take off and landing. Try getting in an unmodified M-18 Drom, it flies like you're balancing on a marble the whole time, you can never relax with that plane.
 
yakdriver said:
A good check out for a single seat Pitts is the front seat of a S2A,B or C. You're sitting in about the same place in relashonship to the wings. Don
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This.

I have given instruction in the S2B and C. I have done a bunch of 1 seat checkouts for people who buy a single seat Pitts.

For someone who has been teaching tailwheel for a while, I get very nervous about doing a Pitts flight for somebody with little tailwheel time. The school I teach at requires 75 hours tailwheel to fly our S2C solo. I think that is a very FAIR amount of time. I have done checkouts for people with less time, sometimes much less and have had mixed results. This was for satisfying an owners insurance requirements for their own airplane. I would NEVER recommend doing a self checkout. If you have never flown a single seat Pitts, it can be a rude awakening to the lack of visibility.

To answer the question about Cub time before Pitts time, we recommend that at our flight school. Although the Cub is a really easy plane to fly, it can become a handful on the ground if you let it get too far. The Pitts is the same way.

I actually considered purchasing this share as it is a pretty good deal, but STS is too far too commute for me.
 
Kim if you come to LVK you can grab a lesson with me in our S2C just to give you an idea. Its a handful but like anything else, is just an airplane if you break it down.

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kimberlyanne546 said:
Single seater, no fun.
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I beg to differ. :) I rarely see two people in a two seat Pitts. Maybe multiple seats are great in Cessna types, but acro planes have an inherently different mission. Saw this post on the Acro Exploder and thought it was fitting regarding single vs. two-seat acro plane. Much truth:

"The same plot plays out many times. A newish acro pilot gets all motivated and decides it's time to buy an airplane. They are certain they need a two-place, with various reasons given such as "give my friends acro rides", "take wife to contests", etc. The truth is, even the shallowest extravert has about 25 friends. 10 to 15 will submit to an aerobatic ride. Perhaps 1 will ever go a second time. Done."
 
I can never find different people to fill the front seat of the S2C. I take the same 3 people up lol.
 
I probably flew solo 2/3 of the time in the Acroduster II, Eagle and S2B. But it was a lot of fun taking someone else up. Taking regular GA pilots was fun just from the reactions. I was never a serious acro pilot, just fun for me and I like flying high performance equipment. Don
 
Henning said:
Shoot, you guys complain about a plane that flies just beautifully and has a few seconds of high attention required on take off and landing. Try getting in an unmodified M-18 Drom, it flies like you're balancing on a marble the whole time, you can never relax with that plane.
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Looks like fun!

 
Inverted said:
Kim if you come to LVK you can grab a lesson with me in our S2C just to give you an idea. Its a handful but like anything else, is just an airplane if you break it down.

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Thanks, I will let you know when I win the lottery! Besides I would totally suck at flying that thing. At first anyways. And I would only be able to afford one lesson. So it would do more harm than good probably.
 
Many people have said they want a ride in the Eagle, but it always turns out that I had to chase them down. It gets old, I got to the point if someone wants a ride, I put it on them to contact me to go fly. In the 11 years I've been flying the Eagle, I have only given 10 rides (not counting a couple Young Eagles events).

A single seat Pitts is a ton of fun... I have one of them too. Many people won't get over their pre-conceived notions of what acro is, so they'll never fly with you.
 
Kimberly-

A Pitts is an absolute blast to fly. The controls are light and VERY responsive. If the airplanes you've been flying - C150 and 172s were compared to cars, they would be sort of like a Honda Civic. The Pitts is more like a Ducati superbike. Depending which engine, a single place Pitts climbs 2500-3000ft/min. It also glides like a set of car keys...5 to 1 glide ratio. It comes over the fence at 80-90mph, and as has been mentioned, forward visability is somewhat comprimised...so Pitts pilots make short approaches, slip to landing or just turn from side to side in order to see the runway. No matter how you do it, though, the runway dissappears once you line up and flare out to land - and once on the ground, the Pitts is a quick little beggar requiring skilled taildragger feet. I have never flown a single-place machine but a long time ago held a low level aerobatic waiver in a S-2A.
A better (partnership) for you would be for an airplane like a Citabria, particularly if one of the partners was a CFI. I've given lots of tailwheel instruction, but I don't think I'd care to provide dual in a Pitts unless the student has pretty good tailwheel skills. Something you could do down the road, though. Good luck.
 
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