Owners, Recording VOR Checks, Other Routing Operational Records

[luvflyin]

Trying to keep folks from using the very weak test signal from a *different* airport where they're close enough to barely receive the signal, which may not be reliable that far away.

Yeah. Some, if not most VOT’s have restrictions on exactly where on the field you have to be to use them.

 

[wilkersk]

You're supposed to have a copy of the operating limits and a copy of the current weight and balance data in the aircraft anyway. Why not use a blank page of the POH to keep a record of VOR checks? You can also write the weight & balance data on the W&B chart in the POH as well. That way, its all in the same place.

We all know that when you're an owner, the only time that stuff gets looked at is the BFR and in the eventuality you get ramp checked anyway. So, make it all perty and stick it in the oversize map pocket.

By the way, my little airplane is so tiny, the previous owner had the POH/OpLims/W&B on a thumb drive zip-tied to one of the angle tubes. He told me there wasn't any rule about what format it had to be in. ---I've since put paper copies in a ziplock bag and slid it between the skin and an angle tube, within reach. Have yet to pull it out, except for during the annual.

 

[John Collins]

#2- I think I can blow my nose in and toss out the old cocktail napkin after 31 days and get a new one, rather than keep it, and it’s fine both regulatorily and from a legal liability standpoint?

I’m asking in this exaggerated way to help me understand the logging vs record keeping requirements.

91.171 calls it an operational check and says in part:

(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft under IFR using the VOR system of radio navigation unless the VOR equipment of that aircraft--
(1) Is maintained, checked, and inspected under an approved procedure; or
(2) Has been operationally checked within the preceding 30 days, and was found to be within the limits of the permissible indicated bearing error set forth in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section.

(d) Each person making the VOR operational check, as specified in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, shall enter the date, place, bearing error, and sign the aircraft log or other record.

91.417 deals with Maintenance records and says in part:

(a) Except for work performed in accordance with Secs. 91.411 and 91.413, each registered owner or operator shall keep the following records for the periods specified in paragraph (b) of this section:
(1) Records of the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alteration and records of the 100-hour, annual, progressive, and other required or approved inspections, as appropriate, for each aircraft (including the airframe) and each engine, propeller, rotor, and appliance of an aircraft. The records must include--
(i) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of the work performed; and
(ii) The date of completion of the work performed; and
(iii) The signature, and certificate number of the person approving the aircraft for return to service.

(b) The owner or operator shall retain the following records for the periods prescribed:
(1) The records specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section shall be retained until the work is repeated or superseded by other work or for 1 year after the work is performed.

So my question is a record of an operational check required by 91.171 a Maintenance record as described in 91.417 (a)(1)? It is not listed in 91.417(a)(1) and has a signature requirement worded differently, does not include the a certificate number and is not a return to service.

 

[Bell206]

is a record of an operational check required by 91.171 a Maintenance record as described in 91.417 (a)(1)?

No, as the operational check does not fall under the definition of maintenance or preventative mx per Part 43. If it did then the check would have to be performed by an A&P or listed in 43 Appx A(c) as prevent mx for a pilot to sign off. That is why the log requirement is listed in 91.171 allowing a pilot to sign it. This check is similar to the operational check required in 91.407(b) which also does not fall under Part 43 and allows the pilot to make the record.

 

[John Collins]

No, as the operational check does not fall under the definition of maintenance or preventative mx per Part 43. If it did then the check would have to be performed by an A&P or listed in 43 Appx A(c) as prevent mx for a pilot to sign off. That is why the log requirement is listed in 91.171 allowing a pilot to sign it. This check is similar to the operational check required in 91.407(b) which also does not fall under Part 43 and allows the pilot to make the record.

Thanks. Then I don't see a regulatory requirement to keep the entry other than for the pilot to prove they were in compliance on a given flight if they were to operate under IFR and use a VOR system for navigation.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Thank you both. This answers my question. I tend keep records of everything anyway, will do the same with 30 day VOR checks as I start my IR training.

 

[denverpilot]

Yeah. Some, if not most VOT’s have restrictions on exactly where on the field you have to be to use them.

VOTs, or VOR checkpoints? I haven’t seen any published requirement on where our local VOT must be used, but it’s definitely not strong across the entire airfield or ramp. Metal hangars block it’s relatively weak signal in multiple large areas.

 

[luvflyin]

VOTs, or VOR checkpoints? I haven’t seen any published requirement on where our local VOT must be used, but it’s definitely not strong across the entire airfield or ramp. Metal hangars block it’s relatively weak signal in multiple large areas.

VOT’s. I don’t even see one for FTG, am I right that that is where you are? APA’s is unusable east of Txy C-4. DEN’s is unusable in terminal area N of Txy AA to Txy BN and W of Txy L to Txy F. There are VOT’s that are usable only in one spot. LAX is unusable all areas except intersection of Txy C and Txy C-10.

 

[denverpilot]

VOT’s. I don’t even see one for FTG, am I right that that is where you are? APA’s is unusable east of Txy C-4. DEN’s is unusable in terminal area N of Txy AA to Txy BN and W of Txy L to Txy F. There are VOT’s that are usable only in one spot. LAX is unusable all areas except intersection of Txy C and Txy C-10.

APA. Interesting. We use it all the time in Area Hotel. But not in a hangar of course. It’s weak but usable.

Been construction down south for years now, no idea how well it works over there. And another building for community stuff is planned to go up soonish. All of which will tend to block/absorb it.

 

[luvflyin]

APA. Interesting. We use it all the time in Area Hotel. But not in a hangar of course. It’s weak but usable.

Been construction down south for years now, no idea how well it works over there. And another building for community stuff is planned to go up soonish. All of which will tend to block/absorb it.

It may be more than weakness. Reflections from buildings may make it inaccurate even if your getting a strong signal.

 

[denverpilot]

It may be more than weakness. Reflections from buildings may make it inaccurate even if your getting a strong signal.

A reflection strong enough to cause a phase shift is going to whack the thing way off of 0/180. It’s mostly about signal strength and the needle NOT moving to where it should on old radios with flags that don’t fully show up on low signal strength.

Ancient but reliable tech.

If it’s whacked, you’ll fail the check. Ha. Taxi closer to the transmitter, you win the lottery and pass! Ha.

 

[BryanAV8R]

I realize it means spending money, but I just bought an avionics log book (I think, from ASA) that has enough pages to record VOR checks over the course of time. Keep it in the storage tray on the floor between the seats, along with my taylor flight log (you know, the one for a couple bucks that sporty's sells...) and make the notations there as needed. No need to overthink.

 

[luvflyin]

A reflection strong enough to cause a phase shift is going to whack the thing way off of 0/180. It’s mostly about signal strength and the needle NOT moving to where it should on old radios with flags that don’t fully show up on low signal strength.

Ancient but reliable tech.

If it’s whacked, you’ll fail the check. Ha. Taxi closer to the transmitter, you win the lottery and pass! Ha.

Here’s one, Mount Soledad. It’s about 0.1 miles west of VPSMS. It’s used at KMYF, KSAN and KNZY. 5.9, 7.2 and 8.7 miles away. All three of them have unusable except at specific points on the field restrictions.

 

[denverpilot]

Here’s one, Mount Soledad. It’s about 0.1 miles west of VPSMS. It’s used at KMYF, KSAN and KNZY. 5.9, 7.2 and 8.7 miles away. All three of them have unusable except at specific points on the field restrictions.

Yup. Miles away is rough for that low of a power transmitter. I believe they’re normally well less than 1W of RF power and probably hooked to crappy high loss coax before the antennas.

 

[steingar]

I have a little hard bound book I bought years ago that serves as my fuel log (even though I'm an owner I keep one. The records can really come in handy). I've decided that VOR checks and GPS updates can go in there too. It lives in the airplane.

 

[ahypnoz]

A yellow “post it” note. I keep it until the next 30 day VOR check is done.

A wise CFI said, no paper trail (that is not legally required)

 

[Tokirbymd]

Anyone use Foreflight logbook or MyFlightbook logbook to track VOR checks? Seems like it would be easy to toss this in the comments section for a flight.

 

[BryanAV8R]

Anyone use Foreflight logbook or MyFlightbook logbook to track VOR checks? Seems like it would be easy to toss this in the comments section for a flight.

I'm an old school guy...I just jot down in an avionics log book that I keep in the plane. I know about keeping electronic logs...just easier (for me anyway) do scribble the entry in the book and throw it in the console on the floor...

 

[EricBe]

Anyone use Foreflight logbook or MyFlightbook logbook to track VOR checks? Seems like it would be easy to toss this in the comments section for a flight.

I do, but hey, I'm obviously not a disinterested observer. Logging in comments is fine if it's your personal aircraft, but for shared aircraft scenarios like a club, the advantage (at least in MyFlightbook) of logging it in the aircraft itself is that all of the other pilots who fly that aircraft can see that the VOR check is up-to-date, and (if you're the one who made the edit), you can see at a glance in your currency that the VOR check is coming up.

 

[Tokirbymd]

Thanks, I never noticed the maintenance section in my flight book until now. I’ll check it out

 

[chemgeek]

I have a small spiral notepad that serves as a VOR check and squawk book. I rip out the squawk page and give it to the mechanic at annual inspection or when needed.

 

[denverpilot]

Anyone use Foreflight logbook or MyFlightbook logbook to track VOR checks? Seems like it would be easy to toss this in the comments section for a flight.

Doesn’t need to be the comments in MyFlightbook. It has tracking fields for it.