Owner assisted annual

Ron Levy said:
You should review 14 CFR 145.151 and 145.163. While one supposes you could put the aircraft owner through the necessary training process and document that, the regulation does require that all persons doing work under authority of a CRS certificate be trained and certified on their tasks. Absent that, the work would have to be done outside their CRS certificate, and the party signing for the work would do so on his/her own A&P/IA certificate, not the shop's CRS certificate.
Click to expand...

Have you ever actually read a Certified repair Station certificate?

That certificate will say what the repair shop is allowed to do under the certificate. there are other projects being worked on in the facility that are not on the certificate, and the non employees work them all the time.

Example: The CRS is a Engine and Airframe repair shop. the Avionics guys are working on the radios on the facilities work orders and the CRS DOM is returning them to service because the AV guys are not A&Ps.

Many shops work this way, simply because the items listed on the certificate won't support the overhead of the facility.
 
Tom-D said:
Have you ever actually read a Certified repair Station certificate?

That certificate will say what the repair shop is allowed to do under the certificate. there are other projects being worked on in the facility that are not on the certificate, and the non employees work them all the time.

Example: The CRS is a Engine and Airframe repair shop. the Avionics guys are working on the radios under the facilities work orders and the CRS DOM is returning them to service because the AV guys are not A&Ps.

Many shops work this way, simply because the items listed on the certificate won't support the overhead of the facility.
Click to expand...


I was pointing out Tom, that if we have an FAA approved drawing to machine say an antenna shim from aluminum plate, that can be done by Joe Blow's Machining. He sends the finished part back to us with a CofC and we inspect it and determine if it conforms to the drawing and then install it on the airplane.

We didn't make the part. The guy who did has nothing to with aviation. we didn't take credit for making the part either.
 
Last edited:
bnt83 said:
I was pointing out Tom, that if we have an FAA approved drawing to machine say and antenna shim from aluminum plate, that can be done by Joe Blow's Machining. He sends the finished part back to us with a CofC and we inspect it and determine if it conforms to the drawing and then install it on the airplane.

We didn't make the part. The guy who did has nothing to with aviation. we didn't take credit for making the part either.
Click to expand...

Farming out jobs to a sub contractor is done all the time. but usually these parts are included in the CRS work order and signed off by the DOM.
 
frfly172 said:
Thinking of doing an owner assisted annual this year in Florida.hoping to learn more about my aircraft.any pros or cons appreciated Thanks Ron
Click to expand...

Highly suggested............... You will know your plane inside and out.... :yes::)
 
Tom-D said:
Farming out jobs to a sub contractor is done all the time. but usually these parts are included in the CRS work order and signed off by the DOM.
Click to expand...

Exactly

A statement that says who machined the part, the CofC from Joe Blow's machining, and a statement that we determined it was airworthy all becomes part of the work order. The customer doesn't see any of that stuff.

An example of a non-certificated vendor's work relased by a CRS.
 
Last edited:
Even IF the CRS has the capability to machine/upholster/plate etc parts themselves, they can get so busy that they have to farm out the work to keep up with demand.
 
NoHeat said:
So if an FBO trains a plane's owner to fly his own plane, does that make the owner an unpaid employee of the FBO?

No way.

Now replace the verb "fly" with "work on." How is the customer vs. employee status suddenly changed?
Click to expand...

It doesn't, we are talking about recording training of an aircraft owner in repair station records.


And FWIW reading the sections RL referenced it says me must provide qualified personnel, not that everyone must be "qualified"

It does spell out the requirements of those who will supervise, inspect or return to service, but not who may run a screw gun. Our owner mentioned earlier is listed because he owns aircraft operated under 135 rules, so he must be drug tested.
 
Skylane81E said:
It doesn't, we are talking about recording training of an aircraft owner in repair station records.


And FWIW reading the sections RL referenced it says me must provide qualified personnel, not that everyone must be "qualified"

It does spell out the requirements of those who will supervise, inspect or return to service, but not who may run a screw gun. Our owner mentioned earlier is listed because he owns aircraft operated under 135 rules, so he must be drug tested.
Click to expand...

10 or more seats (135+) makes the RTS more difficult as well.
 
EASA airplanes is where the hole systems goes to hell in a handbasket.

Even if part #123B vinyl step tread passes burn cert, unless its listed in the IPC, we can't install it.
 
NoHeat said:
So if an FBO trains a plane's owner to fly his own plane, does that make the owner an unpaid employee of the FBO?

No way.

Now replace the verb "fly" with "work on." How is the customer vs. employee status suddenly changed?
Click to expand...
Have you read 14 CFR Part 145? When you have, perhaps you'll see how that matters in the case of a certified repair station.
 
Going back a little in the thread... I know pilots are cheap bastards, but if I call my Attorney to shoot the breeze, I get billed for every single second of that phone call. So I stick to the point.

I'm surprised more shops don't do the same.

That'd keep the talkative ones away... You only make that mistake, once.
 
Depends on the situation. The shop owner here doesn't bill his time spent for owner consultation by phone or in person. He understands that MX is expensive and that owners want to make the smartest and most cost-effective decisions, and is willing to review all the options (new, reman, serviceable, as-removed, etc.) so that they can make the best decision.

denverpilot said:
Going back a little in the thread... I know pilots are cheap bastards, but if I call my Attorney to shoot the breeze, I get billed for every single second of that phone call. So I stick to the point.

I'm surprised more shops don't do the same.

That'd keep the talkative ones away... You only make that mistake, once.
Click to expand...
 
denverpilot said:
Going back a little in the thread... I know pilots are cheap bastards, but if I call my Attorney to shoot the breeze, I get billed for every single second of that phone call. So I stick to the point.

I'm surprised more shops don't do the same.

That'd keep the talkative ones away... You only make that mistake, once.
Click to expand...

I hope I have better repore with my customers than my lawyer.
 
I had been flying light airplanes for almost 30 years before I first participated in an owner assisted annual.

The annual was a real eye-opener. I learned a lot.

I've participated in a number of annuals since that first one, and learn something new and useful every time.

Highly recommended.
 
Want to say started on my owner assisted annual today. It was all that was stated and more. I now understand the plane and systems much better,also have a better appreciation for my mechanic. Getting better with the tools also. Thanks for all the input. Now I know why pilots enjoy their experimentals so much.
 
When preparing an aircraft for the inspection, how much of that preparation is NOT preventive maintenance ?
 
frfly172 said:
Now I know why pilots enjoy their experimentals so much.
Click to expand...


:thumbsup: Working on my plane is almost as fun as flying for me.

I wouldn't dream of turning one of my planes over to a mechanic without being there to answer questions and assist. Not that I don't trust the mechanic, I want to learn what he is interested in seeing so I can be a better mechanic. I certainly don't know it all, and neither does he.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top