Overwhelmed by the amount of Schools

Okay so now that I'm getting closer to the move (to Florida) I'm deciding between Daytona and Fort Lauderdale....

Epic in Daytona looks promising... I've talked to them and they seem like an all inclusive school that's pretty straight forward. (Also talked about having a job lined up at finished with an airline. (I talked to them about a month ago so I can't remember what airline, but they said starting at 37/hour) I don't know if that's just too good to be true.

Also looking into flight safety..... in Fort Laiderdale. They seem to have a reputation that might be worth it.

Am I completely off or are these good ideas? Or am I just dumb
 
You're going to need at least 1500 hours to start at an airline. The "bridge" program that some of these flight schools have with airlines isn't really an attraction anymore because the regionals are hiring like mad and as long as you can fog a mirror and answer a few basic questions, you're in.
 
GB403 said:
Where are these schools/instructors? I would love to team up with a CFI for individual training with PPL, Instruments, CPL, and CFI. If not then I guess I will have to attend ATP.
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Absolutely not. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of training facilities that will do the same thing as ATP for a lot less money. Go to your local magazine store and get the latest edition of Plane and Pilot. I think it is devoted to schools and training.

Bob Gardner
 
jordane93 said:
You're going to need at least 1500 hours to start at an airline. The "bridge" program that some of these flight schools have with airlines isn't really an attraction anymore because the regionals are hiring like mad and as long as you can fog a mirror and answer a few basic questions, you're in.
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Oh, so what would be a good school that can get me eligible to apply for these regionals (what exactly are regionals?)
 
bobmrg said:
Absolutely not. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of training facilities that will do the same thing as ATP for a lot less money. Go to your local magazine store and get the latest edition of Plane and Pilot. I think it is devoted to schools and training.

Bob Gardner
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Well I'm deciding weather to move to Daytona or Fort Lauderdale based on what school I decide to go to. I guess I can look up that magazine online?

Also I want a school with good simulators as well right? And a good fleet? I'm not sure what would be considered one
 
You said you're relocating to Florida from California. Why? Have you already quit your job in California?

Here's my advice.
1. Don't quit your job or do anything rash yet.
2. Figure out if you can get your first class medical, and if so go ahead and get it. However, do not walk into the doctor's office unless you are sure you can get it.
3. Forget about your commercial right now. Worry about getting your Private Pilot Certificate first. One piece at a time. Find an instructor you like and take your time. Try to arrange work and flying schedule with your boss. It will be harder in the winter as there is less daylight.
4. Once your get your Private pilot certificate you'll have made some contacts and will have a better idea how to train for your instrument rating and commercial. You'll also know whether you are sure you want to continue.
 
yah, gotta move to Florida to go to ATP. They only have FOUR locations in California.
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Christian R said:
Moved for other personal reasons. Definitely uncalled for and completely unhelpful... but thanks for dropping by.
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And I was half way through completing the 'personal mentor' application. Oh well. Another dream dashed.

No charge for this answer: Regionals are Regional Airlines that fly short hauls in smaller planes (light jets and turboprops) on contract to the majors.

Don't ask us to define majors.
 
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Christian R said:
Oh, so what would be a good school that can get me eligible to apply for these regionals (what exactly are regionals?)
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Any school. It doesn't matter what flight school you went to as long as you meet the requirements.
 
mfisher said:
You said you're relocating to Florida from California. Why? Have you already quit your job in California?

Here's my advice.
1. Don't quit your job or do anything rash yet.
2. Figure out if you can get your first class medical, and if so go ahead and get it. However, do not walk into the doctor's office unless you are sure you can get it.
3. Forget about your commercial right now. Worry about getting your Private Pilot Certificate first. One piece at a time. Find an instructor you like and take your time. Try to arrange work and flying schedule with your boss. It will be harder in the winter as there is less daylight.
4. Once your get your Private pilot certificate you'll have made some contacts and will have a better idea how to train for your instrument rating and commercial. You'll also know whether you are sure you want to continue.
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I quit my job to travel around a year ago. Which I have so there is that. I want to dedicate all my time to get up to 250-500 hours as soon as possible. I want to be employable as soon as I can. I have funds for daily expenses (rent, car payment, cell phone etc.) that will last me a year. But I want to get a loan to speed up the licensing process.

How would I find an instructor I like? Is there any website that rates these schools or individual to get your Private Pilot Cert?

Are there any schools with similar programs to Epics or ATPs that are more focused, customizable or just all together better that I can just follow and complete those hours within the smallest time frame?
 
Go to a medium sized airport that has a flight school. Talk to the person behind the desk. Observe students coming and going. Talk to the students leaving (they are too busy before). Go to the flight school and ask at the desk for the name of 2 or 3 flight instructors. Call them and set up a get aquainted interview. Observe their students as they come back from a lesson. Does the instructor engage the student in discussion or do they just quickly leave the plane and go have a cigarette? Which one do you want? Ask them who they use as a DE (aka DPE). Sign up for a lesson. It will usually be less expensive at smaller airports but airplane rental and instructor prices are all over the map.
 
I am sure u have read this above, but get your first class medical first and talk to a AME before u apply and use the medxpress form. If u can't get class 1 medical, the discussion and planning ends here for commercial. I burned first 5 hours with an instructor that didn't work out, so there is that and the only way you will know for sure he or she is the right one for you is by flying with him/her. There are a lot of instructors whose only focus is to get hours and number of landings to chase to that magic 1500 number, doesn't work very well for your training if that's the only focus they have. A great pilot doesn't mean a great teacher

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JimNtexas said:
What you want to do is get your commercial certificate as soon as you can. Find a school or instructor who will combine commercial with CFI training, because you want to be CFI as quickly as you can.

The reason you to be a CFI is because there are now a number of major airlines that will put you on their payroll as you work as a CFI. You get full benefits and at least in the case of Envoy you can flow to American without a second interview.

There is such a huge shortage of CFIs right now that lots of flight schools will subsidize their new CFIs to earn further ratings.

There has never, ever, in the history of aviation, been a better time to become a professional pilot than today!
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Do you know what schools subsidize your CFI?

I've learned a lot since I moved to Florida and have visited EPIC, ATP, PanAm, Wayman, Flight Saftey at Vero beach, Aerosim.... etc..

And believe it or not ATP did give one of the better impressions. You can tell you pay a premium for the brand new all glass planes. All their planes are 2013 and newer.

Flight safety, even a professor told me... that it's way too expensive and unessisary to go there. Not to mention they give priority to airline sponsored students over self founded ones. (How the **** do I become airline sponsored for all this? Lol) and they mentioned that there student to instructor ratio isn't all that good. I wouldn't be able to advance very quickly.

PanAm always keeps a 4:1 student:instructor ratio so that's great. Think 4 students a day, two hours each between flight time and debriefing... that seems to be the magic number. Obviously without bringing up the craft to fly ratio to student. So assuming there is always one available.

Wayman has a programe with the the local collage. Miami-Dade and seems to have a great hourly rate. 100 an hour for a Cessna 152 with fuel. Add 60 for an instructor. Or 108 for a 172 Which is pretty decent as compared to say EPIC in Daytona. Which is 225 for a 172 (G1000) with instructor. Doesn't seem like very much but if you look at it as a percentage, it starts to add up quickly.

Dean international is even cheaper, 95 an hour/ 30 the instructor. But there are too many students. Not enough flight time.


Aerosim sims also seems to try and milk you and gives a lot of its priorities to airline sponsored students. When I went there the students themselves didn't seem to like it very much. Students at atp said they liked their school, same with pan am, and people LOVED their school over at epic. (But it's more expensive, but in a cheaper area. So that could offset)


Se that's a whole other thing I've learned. These schools like to package everything into neat bundles but in reality it all really just comes down to price for a plane with fuel, and instructor pricing.

I've heard that American flyers may pay for your CFI. I'm waiting on a call back from them.

If anyone comes up with a better cheaper way to do all this please let me know lol. Or where I can get subsidized loans or maybe a way to get a student loan for all this. The ones that can't demand more than 10% of your income as payment.

I do feel better now though, I've learned a lot and I'm happy to help out the few that might be even more lost than myself haha.

Help. Lol.
 
2013 and newer is a selling point? Why?

It's not like G1000s are cutting edge anymore. That was in 2008. And you learn to fly a plane, not a panel. You can get almost the same experience with a GTN650 and two axis autopilot, but that won't matter at all until you start instrument training.

The plane I fly the most these days is a 2012 G1000 182T. I fly it because it's what's available. It has some rather specialized uses for which the autopilot is useful. It's a really, really bad airplane to learn to fly in. It's also a bad airplane to try to squeeze three people into, which is a hell of a strange thing to say about a 182.

If you want to learn to fly, primary training is best done in the simplest airplane available. They all fly the same. That it might be 40 years old or more is not important. One of the things you have to learn is, what matters and what doesn't. No, a properly maintained 40 year old airplane will not break down more than a properly maintained 5 year old airplane. With the injected engine, the strongest predictor is how the mixture is managed. It's really easy to burn up cylinders in a very short time. And students are going to be bad at that, because they are students. That's a marketing gimmick to get you to spend $160 an hour or more on a $120 per hour plane.

When in the time building zone, you'll have plenty of time to learn new avionics and new types; that's a really good use for 150-200 hours between instrument and commercial. But if you want to be an airline pilot, that's better done in a turbine, if possible.
 
MAKG1 said:
2013 and newer is a selling point? Why?

It's not like G1000s are cutting edge anymore. That was in 2008. And you learn to fly a plane, not a panel. You can get almost the same experience with a GTN650 and two axis autopilot, but that won't matter at all until you start instrument training.

The plane I fly the most these days is a 2012 G1000 182T. I fly it because it's what's available. It has some rather specialized uses for which the autopilot is useful. It's a really, really bad airplane to learn to fly in. It's also a bad airplane to try to squeeze three people into, which is a hell of a strange thing to say about a 182.

If you want to learn to fly, primary training is best done in the simplest airplane available. They all fly the same. That it might be 40 years old or more is not important. One of the things you have to learn is, what matters and what doesn't. No, a properly maintained 40 year old airplane will not break down more than a properly maintained 5 year old airplane. With the injected engine, the strongest predictor is how the mixture is managed. It's really easy to burn up cylinders in a very short time. And students are going to be bad at that, because they are students. That's a marketing gimmick to get you to spend $160 an hour or more on a $120 per hour plane.

When in the time building zone, you'll have plenty of time to learn new avionics and new types; that's a really good use for 150-200 hours between instrument and commercial. But if you want to be an airline pilot, that's better done in a turbine, if possible.
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Agreed, I wasn't saying it made me want to go there. I was just saying that's why ATP is so expensive. They are passing along the price of a new fleet.

But they are one of the only ones that do 100% financing. So I might not have another route. I've saved up for all other expenses but not the actual cost.
 
Christian R said:
Okay well I have a lot to look up and research. I'm definitely not wealthy, but I've saved enough to survive comfortably for a year and plan to finance the rest. (I have perfect credit) This way I can get as many hours as possible as soon as possible.

Is anyone here located in Miami that can recommend a good flight instructor?
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Question no one has asked, and you haven't volunteered....do you currently hold a degree from a university?
 
RotorDude said:
Get a first class medical. If you hit any issues, it's better to know now, before investing any further resources.
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I'm just going to re-emphasize this for you. It's not just your current medical condition, it's your medical history that matters too. Don't potentially waste your time, until you get this figured out and out-of-the-way .
 
@ Christian

IF I may make an observation(s).. with respect.
Becoming a pilot (especially airline pilot/professional) is not something you just wake up one day (for those people who had no previous thoughts on airplanes, you have no idea what an elevator is, etc etc) and say.. "I want to fly an A380". You apparently know nothing about aviation, but you want to fly planes, I find that odd. You did not even understand the term "regionals". The regionals is where your going to be lol (98.97%), If you ever want to fly for a major airline. So you not knowing the structure of pilot growth/promotion is amazing to me.
You need to be SELF pre-loaded with info on aviation, before becoming even a simple private pilot, let alone a professional pilot.

Like someone posted above, do discovery flights if you haven't yet. You may not even like being in a cramped C172 or a one door fire safety piper lol. You may not even like flying. Keep in mind I think its like 70% of student pilots (some with many hours), never even complete their private license.




good luck.
 
jordane93 said:
The "bridge" program that some of these flight schools have with airlines isn't really an attraction ....
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Not quite.

Look at the Envoy program. They interview and hire 300 - 500 hour CFIs, put them on their payroll with full bennies while they continue to instruct at their flight school, while they instructor and build hours. Once they are close to 1500 they enter Envoy as a new FO. Later they go to AA without a second interview. AA is going to hire 40% of their new pilots through Envoy.

Some of the other airlines have some similar programs, but Envoy is the most interesting one I've heard of.
 
JimNtexas said:
Not quite.

Look at the Envoy program. They interview and hire 300 - 500 hour CFIs, put them on their payroll with full bennies while they continue to instruct at their flight school, while they instructor and build hours. Once they are close to 1500 they enter Envoy as a new FO. Later they go to AA without a second interview. AA is going to hire 40% of their new pilots through Envoy.

Some of the other airlines have some similar programs, but Envoy is the most interesting one I've heard of.
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I'm not too familiar with the Envoy program but you are definitely limiting your options. I'm sure they make you sign a contract that you have to work for them once you hit your hours, you have to work for them. What if you decide Envoy isn't for you? Flows come and go. I don't want to sign anything that would limit me to one company. The same person without the program can interview at Envoy and choose if they want to join the company or not
 
Ignore the ding on ATP. While it may be a "pilot puppy mill", it's a mill that has delivered for several of my airline colleagues that did their "zero to hero" program in six months or so, then flight instructed for them to get to 1,500 so they could be hired at my airline. Sit down and talk to them. A really good Part 61 program somewhere might be able to accomplish the same thing, but you'd need to get some good references to back up such a claim.

It's not a cheap process...figure $75K+ minimum. But it could land you at a regional airline within two years from starting.
 
Interested in leaving the country? If living abroad is something that sounds good to you, go to China. Massive pilot shortage. Hiring tons of pilots, crazy pay. Well over $100k.

Go to news.google.com, type in "China pilot shortage hiring" and feast the results. I think the original article I read was in the WSJ, but there are tons of them.
 
So I checked out dean international in south Miami.

Great price, nice location.

Has anyone had any experience or any insight on their reputation?
 
TheTraveler said:
Interested in leaving the country? If living abroad is something that sounds good to you, go to China. Massive pilot shortage. Hiring tons of pilots, crazy pay. Well over $100k.

Go to news.google.com, type in "China pilot shortage hiring" and feast the results. I think the original article I read was in the WSJ, but there are tons of them.
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I would definitely be interested in leaving the country.

I'm sure that's someone where I would look into once I have competed all the programs we are speaking of.
 
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