Overnight Rental

azpilot said:
Ya, I have been playing around with some basic flight planning ideas in skyvector. It will likely end up being a bit more than 450 nm. There are just a lot of mountains and canyons (one is quite grand ;)) that are going to get in the way. I am going to have to think about my route quite a bit.
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If your going to be flying around mountains Chandler Air may want you to do Mountain training with them. You might want to check with them before you plan this.
 
As others said, if you talk to them, they'll probably waive minimums. We simply request people use common sense. If they're going to take the plane 20 minutes away to the nearby restaurant airport, sit it there all weekend, and fly home two days later, then they just put .8 on the airplane that nobody else can fly all weekend long, and that's not fair to us or other people who might like to use the plane that is sitting uselessly nearby all weekend. If they're going to take it on an actual, legit trip, then it's theirs, no minimums enforced. We encourage people to take the trip planes over the training planes so that students can get in their training flights as easily as possible during the busy times, but we don't "bump" or block anybody unless there's a checkride, which does take precedence. So if someone is only checked out in the 172, and they're going to be gone for 3-4 days, if our other 172 is up and running, they can have it. We've even had folks take one of the lesser used 6-seat trip planes for a 10-day family vacation. It was pretty far away, and wasn't busy then, so they were welcome to it. Anyway, our contract lists a minimum hour per day trip policy, but we tell people up front when they join that we will not charge them for anything other than their hobbs time on overnights as long as they use common sense and talk to us ahead of time about what they're looking at doing.
 
StinkBug said:
So I should never take a weekend trip in a plane I'm paying for because others might wanna fly it too? I'm sorry, I just feel that if I'm the first to reserve it and I'm operating within the rules of the people offering the rental then it should not be my concern what someone else might want. Do you go to the grocery store and NOT buy the last box of cheerios because someone else might want to eat breakfast tomorrow? If you were on vacation and there was only one rental car left would you take a cab instead so that the next guy could have a car? I think not. .
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Well, at least two other readers here think it is selfish. So, just a heads up, it might be.

Yes, you can follow the rules, take advantage of the rules, find loopholes, exercise your "rights", yaddda....yadda....

But, it doesn't mean it is not selfish, nor does it mean it is in the best interest of the "community" you are a member of.

If you think taking a popular airplane away from students and CFI's so you can park it at another location instead of taking less used airplanes (that are more fun to fly) is the best way for you to be part of the "community", then go for it. Don't let it bother you that other people think your actions are selfish.

And, don't be surprised when the "rules" change at the FBO because of behavior.
 
evapilotaz said:
If your going to be flying around mountains Chandler Air may want you to do Mountain training with them. You might want to check with them before you plan this.
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Ya, I'm going to do their "Mountain Checkout" before I attempt this flight. They won't let you fly into mountainous terrain unless you've done their mountain checkout. The mountain checkout consists of some ground and a flight from KCHD to Sedona to Payson and back to KCHD.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Well, at least two other readers here think it is selfish. So, just a heads up, it might be.

Yes, you can follow the rules, take advantage of the rules, find loopholes, exercise your "rights", yaddda....yadda....

But, it doesn't mean it is not selfish, nor does it mean it is in the best interest of the "community" you are a member of.

If you think taking a popular airplane away from students and CFI's so you can park it at another location instead of taking less used airplanes (that are more fun to fly) is the best way for you to be part of the "community", then go for it. Don't let it bother you that other people think your actions are selfish.

And, don't be surprised when the "rules" change at the FBO because of behavior.
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The FBO i'd be renting from has 22 airplanes. I'm going to work with them to set it up. I think this would be different at an FBO with one or two planes. I don't think anyone should feel selfish if they set the trip up in advance with the management and agree on the terms of the trip.
 
Depending on if it's a weekend or weekday may change the rental minimums. For the weekends, 3 hour is the standard I've seen and for a weekday it's 2.
 
AZ get your Mountain, High Performance and Complex all done in their Arrow RT in one single trip. Cut down in your flight time in the arrow for your SLC trip.
Just a thought. Most likely getting the complex done would require multiple flights. Not sure.
 
evapilotaz said:
AZ get your Mountain, High Performance and Complex all done in their Arrow RT in one single trip. Cut down in your flight time in the arrow for your SLC trip.
Just a thought. Most likely getting the complex done would require multiple flights. Not sure.
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I looked into this. I would need at least 10 hours in the Arrow before they would rent it to me. I also looked into the Dakota. I would need at least five hours in it to get the high performance endorsement.

I also looked up the cruise speed and rental cost of each plane and came up with a $/kts figure. The Archer is the cheapest plane. At the cruise speeds we're talking about I could shave maybe 30 to 45 minutes each way off the flight. The $2k i'd spend getting the complex rating isn't worth the 1 to 2 hours I'll save. I'll just stick with the Archer for now.
 
Eh, Arrows are OK, not great. Unless it's a turbo Arrow. None of the PA28s do all that well at high altitude.

I can get my hands on a Cardinal RG for the same price as a 172, and THAT'S worth it. It's 25% faster, and quite a bit more comfy for the passengers. And Cessnas seem to like >10K feet better.

The complex thing loses its luster fairly quickly. It's several more things to manage.
 
MAKG1 said:
Eh, Arrows are OK, not great. Unless it's a turbo Arrow. None of the PA28s do all that well at high altitude.

I can get my hands on a Cardinal RG for the same price as a 172, and THAT'S worth it. It's 25% faster, and quite a bit more comfy for the passengers. And Cessnas seem to like >10K feet better.

The complex thing loses its luster fairly quickly. It's several more things to manage.
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The Arrow at the FBO I rent from is the "PA 28RT-201". I believe that is the non-turbo version with 200 HP and the T-Tail.

I might work my way up to that someday, but for now, I'll stick with the Archer.
 
denverpilot said:
Word of warning. I just went to a club meeting this week where six pilots have three minor incidents and three major ones, and the club is likely to become "uninsurable" because of it. This was over the course of eight years.

Going to be able to get that $4500 back to pay for self-insurance or find anyone who wants to pay it when the club can't afford to self-insure for the hull value of the highest hull you fly?

Looking at the numbers, the three minor incidents probably aren't an ant fart to the insurer. So it only took three pilots screwing up to screw 120, in the case of this club.

Never thought about it before this week, but it's a significant risk in being in an equity club with lots of pilots because you can't manage the risk of them being poor pilots. I can't imagine they'll have any CFIs other than the die hards who'll run the risk of going completely uninsured. CFI insurance would be completely prohibitive if they have to go to member-based insurance.

They also have a "refundable buy in" setup but they don't refund until the next new member joins. And they're about to have a mass exodus I think.

I don't think it'll be a club ending event for them, but anyone with significant personal assets to protect and who does the math of carrying their own insurance is probably going to fly elsewhere for many years. They don't have a deep enough bank account to self-insure unless they sell an aircraft by my quick look of their numbers.
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I talked with someone on the Board for Phoenix Flyers today. I think you must have them confused with another club. They have not had a rash of accidents or any trouble with their insurance.

There were no guests at their meeting this week. Were you thinking of the "Cloudbusters" club based at Stellar?
 
azpilot said:
The FBO i'd be renting from has 22 airplanes. I'm going to work with them to set it up. I think this would be different at an FBO with one or two planes. I don't think anyone should feel selfish if they set the trip up in advance with the management and agree on the terms of the trip.
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My point exactly. Everybody has the same opportunity to book, and generally if you want a couple days you need to plan ahead. If I plan farther ahead than anyone else, why shouldn't I be able to take a trip? It sounds like the OP is somewhat limited on plane selection due to endorsements, so his only option is planes that get used for training. When I was at the same point I planned my trips weeks ahead and booked a plane. I always far exceeded the minimums so the owners were happy, which really is my only concern. If it's the only plane, or one of only 2, then yeah it's a little different, but if the people renting it to you are happy with the arrangement then there's no reason to feel bad. Their plane, their rules. You've already spent a small fortune to get your license and be able to fly somewhere for the weekend. Not using this hard earned privilege because a couple people might wanna do some laps in the pattern is foolish IMO.
 
dans2992 said:
I talked with someone on the Board for Phoenix Flyers today. I think you must have them confused with another club. They have not had a rash of accidents or any trouble with their insurance.

There were no guests at their meeting this week. Were you thinking of the "Cloudbusters" club based at Stellar?
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He didn't say what club or where it was. I read all that as simply a word of warning about investing large sums of money into a similar type of club, where the actions of a few others could greatly impact your own flying and finances.
 
James331 said:
Rented a 200 series Cessna for a week once, even got a discount, just depends on how many hours you project to put on

I highly doubt a overnight would be a issue for any worthy flight school, kinda a standard issue request, I'd wager it will be a min 3hr charge or something.
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I love the club I rent from. I rent a DA-40 and minimums are 2hrs weekdays and 3hrs weekends. The clock starts and stops at midnight so, the first and last day do not count in the equation. If I don't hit the minimum hrs then the remaining time is prorated at $45. We flew from Winder Ga to Hilton Head SC for a 4day weekend and the total bill was $540!! Can't beat that!
 
dans2992 said:
I talked with someone on the Board for Phoenix Flyers today. I think you must have them confused with another club. They have not had a rash of accidents or any trouble with their insurance.

There were no guests at their meeting this week. Were you thinking of the "Cloudbusters" club based at Stellar?
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Sorry "a club" was generic. And the other person is correct, it was a warning about equity clubs. The larger they get, the more likely they'll have incidents that cost the insurer money, and if the money is big enough, a handful of pilots can cost the others in the club a LOT of money to stay insured, through no fault of their own.

Not to say the same thing can't happen in a commercial for-profit, too. But folks aren't usually tied to a commercial entity as much as they are a club because they have no equity in it.
 
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