OSA letter from the FAA

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theyokesonyou

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The FAA is such a mess. Clear as freaking mud.

I got a letter from the FAA saying they received a status report dated Feb. 7th regarding my history of sleep apnea and Hypertension. However they are still unable to establish my eligibility to hold a medical.

So I need to reply within 60 days. With...

Airman compliance with treatment form or equivalent
and
current CPAP download data

I did the renewal through my AME cost me $75. He sent me my cert in the mail.

Here is the kicker it then goes on to say if you or your AME have sent this don't resend it or it might screw stuff up.

WTH, so they somehow received the status report I provided the AME from my primary care physician but not the rest but if I do the easy thing and resend I could be screwed worse.

I have 60 days to fix it (less now since it is from the date of the letter a week ago) but don't know if I should do anything.

In any case I have a call out to the AME and hopefully they can straighten it out but seriously do they have to make it this complicated?
 
Even though at times (make that most of the time) the requests from the FAA don't seem logical, my advise is to comply exactly with their requests. Don't ask why...just comply.

Otherwise, it can become a real _hitstorm.

I went through the same BS two years ago with my CPAP usage. I had my second classed pulled for about 40 days.
 
What ever you submit to the FAA, do it via CMRRR, and make sure EACH page has your name, DOB, Certificate Number, and any other ID's that will aid in matching the documents to your file.

Once you get the green postcard back documenting that the mail room got the papers, give it 7-10 days to get scanned, and start calling the interested airman phone number on non-consecutive days to ask for updates on status. Be super polite when you interact with them.
 
Problem is I already submitted all of this through the AME. Well not the compliance statement thingy (or equivalent) but my doctors report and my cpap machine report.

So I can't do exactly what they say or I risk resending the same data twice. Here in lies the rub.

This is why I paid the money to go through an AME so I didn't have to deal with the FAA.
 
I was on an SI for kidney stones. Every year, I would go to my AME, present all the documentation required. He would issue me a new 3rd class medical good for another year, and he would send copies of all the documents to the FAA.

Every year, without fail, the FAA would send me the same letter you got, about 2 months after my renewal at the AME's office requesting the same damned data that we already sent in. Every year, I'd send it all again, and get a NEW 3rd class medical from the FAA 2 months later. Finally, 5 years later, they excused my SI completely.

We'll see what happens next year. :crazy:
 
It's known around these parts at "owning your medical"

Remember, it's a beuracracy. Belt and suspenders are a required technique.

I provide my AME with the required documents (also OSA and DM2), then 5-7 days after the visit to him, I send copies of the submitted documents to OKC myself. The extra effort must work because I never have gotten a letter like you did.
 
The AME needs to NEVER do one of these unless he KNOWS the standards and you HAVE the standards met in your material. Shame on AMEs who don't do that. His function is to protect you from just this sort of inquiry, or be able to respond on your behalf and defend his issuance. When I have an airman complain that I am being a stickler, I say, "I can tell you or the FAA will"....had you sent it in yourself you would have gotten the same potential jeopardy.

What they want is the use report, which I have redacted here. The first one was made with sleepyhead download software, from the SD card on a USB dongle; the second is a one month Resmed report (it's the 4th graph, "usage"). For a renewal they want the WHOLE years' data, but if you have the last 90 and are amply treated, e,g not just at the 6 hour line and not just barely at the "75% of nights" line, they've given it for airmen who wrote and say that their Card crashed. You are supposed to guard against that; I tell pilots to print QUARTERLY. Paper never corrupts.

The most common problem is that the SUMMARY report cites # of nights in which 4 hours' use was exceeded. FAA thinks you need SIX hours. So the 4 hour report means nothing to them. If you have total hours, and average hours, and missed very few nights, you can do the math and see if it's possible to NOT have 75% OF NIGHTS WITH >6 HOURS' USAGE. But they want the graph.

The key is you have to understand "what is the standard". Now you know.
 

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bbchien said:
The AME needs to NEVER do one of these unless he KNOWS the standards and you HAVE the standards met in your material. Shame on AMEs who don't do that. His function is to protect you from just this sort of inquiry, or be able to respond on your behalf and defend his issuance. When I have an airman complain that I am being a stickler, I say, "I can tell you or the FAA will"....had you sent it in yourself you would have gotten the same potential jeopardy.

What they want is the use report, which I have redacted here. The first one was made with sleepyhead download software, from the SD card on a USB dongle; the second is a one month Resmed report (it's the 4th graph, "usage"). For a renewal they want the WHOLE years' data, but if you have the last 90 and are amply treated, e,g not just at the 6 hour line and not just barely at the "75% of nights" line, they've given it for airmen who wrote and say that their Card crashed. You are supposed to guard against that; I tell pilots to print QUARTERLY. Paper never corrupts.

The most common problem is that the SUMMARY report cites # of nights in which 4 hours' use was exceeded. FAA thinks you need SIX hours. So the 4 hour report means nothing to them. If you have total hours, and average hours, and missed very few nights, you can do the math and see if it's possible to NOT have 75% OF NIGHTS WITH >6 HOURS' USAGE. But they want the graph.

The key is you have to understand "what is the standard". Now you know.
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What is confusing is I sent in all of that at the same time I sent in the note from my doctor. This is not the first time this AME has issued me for this SI. I am hoping it is just a paperwork snafu and a simple phone call from the AME fixes it.
 
theyokesonyou said:
What is confusing is I sent in all of that at the same time I sent in the note from my doctor. This is not the first time this AME has issued me for this SI. I am hoping it is just a paperwork snafu and a simple phone call from the AME fixes it.
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You did n't answer: Did your graphic meet the standards noted?
 
bbchien said:
What they want is the use report, which I have redacted here. The first one was made with sleepyhead download software, from the SD card on a USB dongle; the second is a one month Resmed report (it's the 4th graph, "usage"). For a renewal they want the WHOLE years' data, but if you have the last 90 and are amply treated, e,g not just at the 6 hour line and not just barely at the "75% of nights" line, they've given it for airmen who wrote and say that their Card crashed. You are supposed to guard against that; I tell pilots to print QUARTERLY. Paper never corrupts.
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On my CPAP (ResAir AirSense 10) it sends a report via a wireless modem to my HCP.. this is how they justify my getting new supplies at no charge... you can get a report form them as well. Also I do a bi-monthly download from the SA card, that is I import the CSV file and insert a pivot table through excel and create my own report. When I presented this to my AME along with the Sleepy Head and ResScan (ResAir) reports his words... "there is no doubt you're in compliance"

He did say when the FAA gets back to you and they will make sure you comply with ALL OF THEIR REQUEST no matter how foolish it seems..
 
Ventucky Red said:
On my CPAP (ResAir AirSense 10) it sends a report via a wireless modem to my HCP.. this is how theyjustify my getting new supplies at no charge... you can get a report form them as well. Also I do a bi-monthly download from the SA card, that is I import the CSV file and insert a pivot table through excel and create my own report. When I presented this to my AME along with the Sleepy Head and ResScan (ResAir) reports his words... "there is no doubt you're in compliance"
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Ventucky, there are a lotta guys with the two dumbed down (Insurance Co) versions of the Resmed 9 or the 10, or who do not desire that their data live online. Unfortunately, that means they have to pay "data attention". Federal mindset, you know....

It's kinda like resisting Google knowing where you are. It can be done- it's just WORK.
 
Just talked to the FAA. The AME has not called me back yet but not sure they are in the office everyday. Apparently the FAA got the letter from my Doc but never got the report or the "Airman Compliance with Treatment form" (I don't think I ever filled out one or have I had to in the past).

So I will give the AME a day or so to call me back and let them do the leg work since I paid them to and they apparently dropped the ball if not I will just fax the stuff to the FAA.
 
The "Airman Compliance With Treatment" form is new. It should have been included in your letter from last year for sending in this year.
 
So they have a note from your doctor saying you are compliant. They have the data showing you are compliant and they need you to sign an additional piece of paper saying you are compliant. Bureaucracy at its finest.
 
theyokesonyou said:
Just talked to the FAA. The AME has not called me back yet but not sure they are in the office everyday. Apparently the FAA got the letter from my Doc but never got the report or the "Airman Compliance with Treatment form" (I don't think I ever filled out one or have I had to in the past).

So I will give the AME a day or so to call me back and let them do the leg work since I paid them to and they apparently dropped the ball if not I will just fax the stuff to the FAA.
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.. and the CPAP compliance data that you mentioned in the first post....? Unless i've missed it you never said if you have that "compliant" data.

"Not addressing that, will NOT get it done"
 
After waiting over two months, even with regular calls as an interested airman, for my SI for OSA, I figured I would get ahead of the game for the annual renewal. I gathered up exactly what the FAA stated in their letter and mailed it off to them about 45 days before my annual SI expired. Within two weeks, I had my new one good through the original expiration date plus one year.

I had considered going the AME route, but thought I'd try the direct approach and it worked well. It cost me only postage.
 
theyokesonyou said:
So they have a note from your doctor saying you are compliant. They have the data showing you are compliant and they need you to sign an additional piece of paper saying you are compliant. Bureaucracy at its finest.
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Sort of. They changed the rules this year, they now want one year of compliance data from the machine. They know that not everyone has a machine that records one year of data. That statement they want you to sign says you are stating that for the missing data, you actually were using the machine.
 
It was the same report I have sent in the last 3 times which they accepted they just didn't get it apparently. Perhaps the fax failed.

The report shows that I was 342/365 and 6.29 hours/night with an AHI of 1. So not even close to non-compliance.
 
bbchien said:
Ventucky, there are a lotta guys with the two dumbed down (Insurance Co) versions of the Resmed 9 or the 10, or who do not desire that their data live online. Unfortunately, that means they have to pay "data attention". Federal mindset, you know....

It's kinda like resisting Google knowing where you are. It can be done- it's just WORK.
Click to expand...

Federal Mindset and work should not exist within a 100 word adjacency.. :D Surprising, some won't spend five minutes to save the countless hours they have getting and keeping their ratings current.. :eek:
 
Well I think I have it sorted. Tomorrow will tell for sure. So seems like a few people dropped the ball here.

My PCP was supposed to fax his report and the CPAP report. As I now recall they did call me because they were having difficulty faxing the stuff. I wonder if either they only sent his report and not the CPAP detail report.

The AME (really his admin) must not have had all of the needed stuff and issued the certificate and sent in what they had. Then never got back to me saying they were missing anything. This bugs me as I am paying for their expertise.

Oh well I will contact my PCP office tomorrow and have them resend the report or see if I can dig it up here I am sure I have it filed somewhere. I guess I could always print another one. I will also send the silly treatment paper stating for the 3rd time I am in compliance.

Hopefully will be good to go and then next time around I will be on BasicMed and some of this "dance monkey dance" crap will hopefully go away.
 
theyokesonyou said:
Well I think I have it sorted. Tomorrow will tell for sure. So seems like a few people dropped the ball here.

My PCP was supposed to fax his report and the CPAP report. As I now recall they did call me because they were having difficulty faxing the stuff. I wonder if either they only sent his report and not the CPAP detail report.

The AME (really his admin) must not have had all of the needed stuff and issued the certificate and sent in what they had. Then never got back to me saying they were missing anything. This bugs me as I am paying for their expertise.

Oh well I will contact my PCP office tomorrow and have them resend the report or see if I can dig it up here I am sure I have it filed somewhere. I guess I could always print another one. I will also send the silly treatment paper stating for the 3rd time I am in compliance.

Hopefully will be good to go and then next time around I will be on BasicMed and some of this "dance monkey dance" crap will hopefully go away.
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Or maybe you just need a competent AME. Faxing FAA during the daytime is an Olympic event. Postage stamps work pretty good, too. What a PITA. If I get a demand letter it was because I described to the pilot, that the documentation might be challenged and the A/M wanted to go ahead anyway. I am known for refusing to do an exam in this situation.

Last year when they upped the reporting requirement on a badly written spec. letter, I did go to bat for about 20 airman and got their demand letters rescinded.
 
theyokesonyou said:
My PCP was supposed to fax his report and the CPAP report.
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Adding to what Dr. Bruce just said, I'll repeat what I said in post #6... I take the doctor's letter and CPAP report to the AME. I don't rely on an already busy office staff to remember to send any documents anywhere.

My PCP is a good one, but I was taught early on by a well known and respected AME to own my medical and the best person to push the documents through the system was me. And to not report to the AME unless I know with 100%-plus certainty that I have all required information in hand that assures issuance in office. And to make sure I am working with a very competent AME.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Adding to what Dr. Bruce just said, I'll repeat what I said in post #6... I take the doctor's letter and CPAP report to the AME. I don't rely on an already busy office staff to remember to send any documents anywhere.
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I never went to the AME this was an off year renewal which is why I had the information faxed to the AME. The AME is an hour and a half away from where I live. I could have faxed it myself to the AME but the PCP had to send his letter anyway and I was waiting on that.

So two balls dropped in my view.

PCP never faxed the CPAP report with their letter
AME didn't make sure they had everything they need before submitting to the FAA

Honestly I can forgive the PCP's office they don't know what is needed the AME however should know not to submit without everything they need.

Today I faxed the CPAP report and the "I swear I really am telling the truth the third time" document along with a copy of the letter the FAA sent me to the number that "Taylor" at the FAA told me to. He said to wait 24-48 hours to call and verify they have it. So I will probably call tomorrow afternoon or Monday.

BasicMed is looking better everyday.
 
After 31 years litigating in various state and federal courts, the only thing that is a universal truth is that if you do not do it, it will get screwed up.

the ONLY way you can be assured that the information required is the information that is actually sent is to do it yourself.

Do not pass go, do not rely on ANYONE to do it correctly. Even Dr. Chien has messed up sending correct documents a time or two - for me - remember Bruce? Its not ABOUT competence some times [we all know Bruce is competent] - its about motivation.

As Aggiemike accurately states - its YOUR medical It's not your doc's, it's not Bruce's and it's not the AME's; it is YOURS.

The FAA has demonstrated on multiple occasions that it is a paper black hole - if they CAN screw something up - they will. I don't know where all the misplaced papers ends up in the federal government, but someone else's file is full of your paperwork.

Thus - YOU must make certain that ALL of the documentation has your name on it - your certificate number - and the referenced form [2016 8700-8 item 18 support. . .] - yes - it is a PITA - but its the only way short of walking it to the desk of the person running the file.

This entire thing could have been avoided by instead of relying on a PCP's office to send documents - you obtained copies of the documents, and you faxed them yourself. Then YOU have proof via fax confirmation report that the information has been sent. As for the WHY of sending a fax in 2017 . .. yeah, ok, I'm there. But the government still uses fax.

This is a lesson for everyone who will ever have to deal with the Aeromedical division. Hell, they won't even believe their own regulations - I've got a great story there - but the facts remain - relying on someone else to do something timely is bad aeromedical decision making.

You need PROOF that something happened. And if you don't do it - you can't sign an affidavit it got done if it ever comes to that. . . .
 
I typically FedEx my stuff to them, because I can do it more inexpensively than USPS, from work and because it is trackable down to the person signing for it.
 
Either way, getting a signature that indicates a human in the correct department/room/desk got it is the important part.

Faxing, yeah, you get the confirmation it transmitted okay, but nothing saying that someone actually looked at it and took action.
 
Got a follow up letter from the FAA. I love the language they use " Our favorable review" ..."established you are ineligible"

"Our favorable review of your interim follow-up reports regarding your history of Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA)treated with continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP) has established that you are ineligible for medical certification under title 14....."

Then goes on to say...
"However, you have been granted continued Authorization for Special Issuance of a third-class airman medical certificate under title 14..."

They go on to also say my certificate is valid until next year and to refer to my Authorization for follow-up requirements.

Interestingly they also ask me to please submit a "more legible copy" of my CPAP report for retention in my medical records.

Anyway looks like I am good to go. I will get them a more legible copy. Guessing the fax of a copy wasn't so good. I suppose I can try to fax it again or mail them a copy or both.
 
theyokesonyou said:
"Our favorable review of your interim follow-up reports regarding your history of Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA)treated with continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP) has established that you are ineligible for medical certification under title 14....."

Then goes on to say...
"However, you have been granted continued Authorization for Special Issuance of a third-class airman medical certificate under title 14..."
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Sounds like standard SI verbiage. Congrats. :)
 
Agree. Standard SI verbiage. No reason to make it more than it is.
 
Look closely at the rest of the doc. Read carefully the requirements for renewing it next time.
 
As i said to comanche pilot (it was a few years ago) "I find no evidence that I sent the document in". It's about evidence. I have to prove it to myself, internally and have systems to do that. Then dealing with FAA becomes easy.

In comanchepilot's case it was fixed on about a week with an embarassed fax. That's why I insist om all documents "through me" so I know exactly what they have.

So i can eventually mess up but I can fix it, too. :)
 
Matthew said:
Look closely at the rest of the doc. Read carefully the requirements for renewing it next time.
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Not likely to be a next time going to go basicmed and avoid the hassle.

The tone of their letters always irks the libertarian in me.
 
Just to add and give credit where credit is due. I will say it was fixed quite easily and fairly efficiently on the FAA even calling them and finding out the status was fairly smooth.
 
So I left my annual visit with an AME with obstructive Sleep Apnea Specification Sheet B. This sheet says I need to see an AME, personal physician, or sleep specialist for an OSA assessment.

I saw my personal physician and he does not believe a sleep study is necessary at this time. Today the AME that started this ball rolling told me that the letter will be rejected by the FAA because my doctor is not AASM trainer and certified.

My question is that the Obstructive Sleep Apnea Specification Sheet B does not indicate that the doctor needs to be AASM trained and certified so is this true or not. I can not find a reference that confirms what the AME told me.

I do not have an issue following the rules it is just I have a letter in hand that is now apparently useless. I will have to make another appointment with a doctor I have never seen before if this is the case.
 
Have your doctor set-up a Home Sleep Study. Reasonably inexpensive. The results will be read by a certified sleep doctor who will sign off on it. Of course, it could go either way.

That said, this is one reason I went basic med...through I still use my CPAP machine every night. Even after I lost 65 pounds.
 
And if you would tell us what city/state you are in, we might be able to recommend sleep doctors who are worth talking too
 
N3368K said:
Have your doctor set-up a Home Sleep Study. Reasonably inexpensive. The results will be read by a certified sleep doctor who will sign off on it. Of course, it could go either way.

That said, this is one reason I went basic med...through I still use my CPAP machine every night. Even after I lost 65 pounds.
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The bureaucratic BS that's piled on top of getting diagnosed and/or treated is certainly one of the reasons why BasicMed is of interest to those who are eligible. Unfortunately, he said that his AME visits are annual, so he may be engaged in operations for which BasicMed would not be an option.
 
Yep, Basic Med doesn't work for Commerical pilots, for whom OSA screening is a royal PITA. Unfortunately, now that he has been "tagged" as a potential OSA case (right or wrong), the FAA will never be convinced until a sleep study is produced, or at least a Sleep Doctor will sign a letter saying he does not suffer from OSA. Sadly, no Sleep Doctor will likely sign a document saying "He does not have OSA" without a sleep study. Of course, if the study is taken and OSA is ruled out, one is free and clear. If not, it will result in a Special Issuance.

The good news, it isn't a show stopper since if one is diagnosed with OSA and effectivelytreated with CPAP or dental device (both require recording ability for documentation) the FAA will issue. It is a hassle though. Saw my family doctor three plus months prior to my CLIII visit in July 2015. She ordered a home sleep study. I used the test equipment for three nights and turned it back in. A few days later, I had my results saying I had OSA. I was prescribed the machine and had used it 60+ days (documented and provided to AME). I ended up with a SI CLIII as a result.

Today I still use my CPAP because it helps me get a restful night's sleep, but occasionally, I'll leave it at home for a single overnight somwhere since I no longer have to worry about hitting any threshold for daily useage nor hours per day usage, etc.
 
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