Options for Rentals in NYC Area

[jpower]

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since I've posted here (been lurking more since life got crazy in the last year or so while I finished up school), but I figured I'd ask the brain trust about rental options in the New York City area. I just passed my instrument checkride last week (yay!) and am moving to Manhattan this week. I'm very sad to leave my most favorite place to fly (a club in Ann Arbor, Michigan), but alas, flying is a hobby and work comes first, so now I have to find a place to fly in New York.

I have a couple outfits that have come up in my research but figured I'd reach out to see if there was any local knowledge before sharing what I found. I'll be living in Manhattan without a car, so I'll need a way to get to the airport using public transit, Zipcar, etc, in hopefully the most cost-effective way possible. Also, while flying is expensive, especially around NYC, I don't want to pay too too much ($205/hr for a G1000 172 is not sustainable for me at this point). That being said, I'd be interested in the best equipment I can find at reasonable rates. (IFR GPS if at all possible? I trained with a GTN650 which was awesome but have yet to find one at a reasonable distance and hourly rate around NYC). Also, I've been flying 172s a ton lately and a little variety never hurt, but I'd be just as happy with a good 'ol Skyhawk. In addition, I spoke with one place that said they don't like for renters to take planes overnight, and while I don't think I would be doing much of that, so it's not a dealbreaker, I think I would like having that flexibility if at all possible.

Finally, as I alluded to, I've been flying with a flying club for the last several years and really love the club atmosphere. It doesn't look like there are many (any?) in the New York City area without a high (multiple AMU) buy-in refundable only after several years of club membership, which is a non-starter for me since it is likely that I will be leaving the area after a year to a year and a half. If there are any clubs with a more reasonable buy-in (or no buy-in at all, like the club I'm in now), or one that is refundable after only a year or so, I'd definitely be interested in hearing about them.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide!

 

[Maciej]

Air Fleet Training at KCDW is my vote.

 

[jpower]

Air Fleet Training at KCDW is my vote.

Since nobody else seems to be chiming in, I'll say that that's the place I ended up narrowing down my choices to after talking to a few places. Do you know how airplane availability is? Whether they let you take the planes on overnights/weekends? Any other good things to know about them, or instructors to ask for for a checkout?

Thanks in advance!

 

[TommyG]

Long Island aviators out KFRG. A good amount of renters come out from the city. 172 G1000 for Around $160. Warrior, arrow, Grumman cougar twin.

 

[Maciej]

Since nobody else seems to be chiming in, I'll say that that's the place I ended up narrowing down my choices to after talking to a few places. Do you know how airplane availability is? Whether they let you take the planes on overnights/weekends? Any other good things to know about them, or instructors to ask for for a checkout?

Thanks in advance!

The 182 can be kept over night and for weekends without issue, generally it's available as they don't use it for training.

 

[jspilot]

Just throwing out there Mid Island at Islip or Brookhaven. Islip is about an hour train ride from the city. They offer online scheduling and a good veriety of airplanes. I use the Brookhaven airport and they are terrific and easy to work with!

 

[bradg33]

I think you're unfortunately find that nowhere is particularly "convenient" from Manhattan. Zipcar is about the only way to make any of the airports "convenient," but it's not very economical. I did a lot of research when I lived in NYC, and honestly just concluded that the time and expense didn't make it worth it. Going flying for an hour is a half-to-all day adventure by the time you get to and from the airport. So, much to my disappointment, I didn't fly at all when I lived up there, other than when I'd go back to my hometown and have a CFI friend go up in a rental with me.

 

[jordane93]

FRG is a quick train ride from Penn Station. Take a look at Nassau Flyers.

 

[orange]

I second FRG. It's the closest field on Long Island. Look at Ventura Air Services, a Warrior (PA28-161) with Garmin GPS (430 I think) rents for $150/hr ($140 block). They also have an Archer (180hp), and few higher performance planes too. They are ok with overnights (3 hour min for overnights). Online scheduling. Friendly staff.

http://flighttraining.ventura.aero/

 

[jpower]

Thanks for all the replies! The issue I've been running into with the places at FRG is that making the last hop from the train station to the airport is a big challenge. The two places I've seen at CDW both advertise that they will pick you up from the bus, which is nice. I would like to avoid both a train ride plus cab/uber fares if at all possible, though that may not be possible, alas.

I do have a friend who has flown with Nassau Flyers and really likes them, and Ventura sounds like it could be a nice outfit as well. If only there were a train that dropped off right at the FBO at any of these places, that would be so nice.

 

[jordane93]

Thanks for all the replies! The issue I've been running into with the places at FRG is that making the last hop from the train station to the airport is a big challenge. The two places I've seen at CDW both advertise that they will pick you up from the bus, which is nice. I would like to avoid both a train ride plus cab/uber fares if at all possible, though that may not be possible, alas.

I do have a friend who has flown with Nassau Flyers and really likes them, and Ventura sounds like it could be a nice outfit as well. If only there were a train that dropped off right at the FBO at any of these places, that would be so nice.

You may be able to call Shelt Air to see if they can pick you up from the train station then walk over to Nassau Flyers. They are right next to each other.

 

[coma24]

Also check out Manhattan Flying Club. They don't have any planes, but they have space in Manhattan for meetups, presentations and simulator sessions.

 

[onezuludelta]

Thanks for all the replies! The issue I've been running into with the places at FRG is that making the last hop from the train station to the airport is a big challenge. The two places I've seen at CDW both advertise that they will pick you up from the bus, which is nice. I would like to avoid both a train ride plus cab/uber fares if at all possible, though that may not be possible, alas.

I do have a friend who has flown with Nassau Flyers and really likes them, and Ventura sounds like it could be a nice outfit as well. If only there were a train that dropped off right at the FBO at any of these places, that would be so nice.

I trained at Long Island Aviators at FRG, and you're right, it is a challenge. Taxis might show up, or might not, and the taxi dispatcher WILL be a d*ck to you over the phone, but GOD FORBID you call an Uber, if the taxi guys see it they will take picture of the license plate and harrass the Uber driver. That said, Long Island is a beautiful and challenging place to fly. Lots of airspace, lots of traffic from LGA/JFK, but gorgeous beaches and farmland to fly over, and the Long Island Sound is beautiful too, for a hop over to Connecticut or Rhode Island, Block Island, or Martha's Vineyard.

 

[bugsiegel]

Consider joining a club?
Look at Richmond pilots. You won't beat the rates and the buy in is not so bad.
Then you have two well maintained IFR planes to choose from. As far as availability, the club is not a heavy IFR pilot club and most IFR days the planes sit. Booking schedule is very flexible and rates are wet tach. I also am new IFR.
The train will get you close to the field but then there's a walk or something. We have a few guys coming in from NYC.
Good luck.

 

[labbadabba]

Also check out Manhattan Flying Club. They don't have any planes, but they have space in Manhattan for meetups, presentations and simulator sessions.

Wish I would have known that when I still lived out there...

 

[jpower]

Also check out Manhattan Flying Club. They don't have any planes, but they have space in Manhattan for meetups, presentations and simulator sessions.

Will do! I'll at least get their lowest-tier (aka free) membership and see how it goes from there. It would be great to meet other NYC-based GA pilots.

I trained at Long Island Aviators at FRG, and you're right, it is a challenge. Taxis might show up, or might not, and the taxi dispatcher WILL be a d*ck to you over the phone, but GOD FORBID you call an Uber, if the taxi guys see it they will take picture of the license plate and harrass the Uber driver. That said, Long Island is a beautiful and challenging place to fly. Lots of airspace, lots of traffic from LGA/JFK, but gorgeous beaches and farmland to fly over, and the Long Island Sound is beautiful too, for a hop over to Connecticut or Rhode Island, Block Island, or Martha's Vineyard.

I have a good friend who trained out of FRG as well, though he was from Long Island and had a car making it super easy. So yeah, I'm well aware how awesome it is flying there. I've also flown out of the Hartford, CT area and down to the Connecticut coast of the Long Island Sound (and to Fishers Island), which is all really nice flying.

But regarding the cabs, seriously?? Are Ubers not allowed at FRG or something? That's insanity. Did you typically use a cab or Uber, and how much did that run you, if you don't mind my asking?

Consider joining a club?
Look at Richmond pilots. You won't beat the rates and the buy in is not so bad.
Then you have two well maintained IFR planes to choose from. As far as availability, the club is not a heavy IFR pilot club and most IFR days the planes sit. Booking schedule is very flexible and rates are wet tach. I also am new IFR.
The train will get you close to the field but then there's a walk or something. We have a few guys coming in from NYC.
Good luck.

I did look into them, and the $600 fee is definitely something I'd be willing to pay. The $2500 deposit is a little more difficult to justify just because I expect to leave New York before the three years are up, meaning I'd likely loose at least some of that money. I guess I could do the math and see how expensive it would be to leave my money in the club until the three years are up, still technically being a member while being away, but my gut tells me that I won't be flying enough to make that worthwhile.

That being said, I really like the club atmosphere, so it might be worthwhile for me. It sounds like you're a member...so do you have any idea how those people coming in from the city do it? I assume Zipcar, which gets a little pricey too, but may be doable since the rates are so low. Also, what sort of equipment is in the planes? GPS, autopilot, ... ? I don't recall seeing any pictures on the website when I looked a while back, but the website is unfortunately down now.

 

[mtuomi]

When I lived in the City, I rented out of Ventura. 100% happy with them.

 

[bugsiegel]

James
Richmond Pilots site is down. Not sure why.
Two 172's one M 160 hp and one SP 180hp
Both steam both Garmin 400 W
SP has auto pilot as well.
There's a way to take the train and get close to the airport. From there, depending on you, a walk , a skate board, a bike , a cab....

 

[jpower]

James
Richmond Pilots site is down. Not sure why.
Two 172's one M 160 hp and one SP 180hp
Both steam both Garmin 400 W
SP has auto pilot as well.
There's a way to take the train and get close to the airport. From there, depending on you, a walk , a skate board, a bike , a cab....

I was thinking about the bike idea myself, maybe get a folding one. I'll have to run the numbers to see if it makes financial sense, but I do like the opportunity. I'm not quite ready to get checked out yet, probably another couple weeks before I actually make it to the airport, but I'll definitely be taking a closer look (and hoping that the website comes back up). Thanks for all your input!

 

[josephades]

I work out of Manhattan and travel to FRG on a very regular basis for my training. 3x a week actually

Getting there by car between 2-6pm is a disaster. Almost 2.5 hours in traffic door to door. I don't remember the last time it took under 2 hours. I wish I was exaggerating.

What I started to do is to take the train from pen station every now and then when I can't sit in traffic. Under an hour. My instructors would pick me up from the train station if their schedule permitted (pretty often). If not, taxi.

Look into Airborn Flight Services. I flew with 4 different clubs and Airborn was the most cost effective and also had the best maintenance on their planes.

I'm currently undergoing CFI training, so I know exactly who to avoid and who to embrace at that airport, although I prefer not to post publicly.

 

[onezuludelta]

W
But regarding the cabs, seriously?? Are Ubers not allowed at FRG or something? That's insanity. Did you typically use a cab or Uber, and how much did that run you, if you don't mind my asking?

The cabbies say it is illegal (city ordinance, I guess?) for Uber to pick up from the train station (not FRG, sorry for the confusion), but no clue if that is actually true or not. A cab was $5 or $6, and Uber usually ran $10-$13. If my CFI couldn't give me a ride back to the station after flying (he did when he could), I had to Uber it because there's no chance a cab would just happen to drive by LIA any time soon. So it was usually a cab from train-FRG and my CFI or an Uber from FRG-train.

 

[onezuludelta]

I've also flown out of the Hartford, CT area and down to the Connecticut coast of the Long Island Sound (and to Fishers Island), which is all really nice flying.

How was Fisher's Island??? I'd love to make a landing there, looks like a challenge!

 

[jpower]

I work out of Manhattan and travel to FRG on a very regular basis for my training. 3x a week actually

Getting there by car between 2-6pm is a disaster. Almost 2.5 hours in traffic door to door. I don't remember the last time it took under 2 hours. I wish I was exaggerating.

What I started to do is to take the train from pen station every now and then when I can't sit in traffic. Under an hour. My instructors would pick me up from the train station if their schedule permitted (pretty often). If not, taxi.

Look into Airborn Flight Services. I flew with 4 different clubs and Airborn was the most cost effective and also had the best maintenance on their planes.

I'm currently undergoing CFI training, so I know exactly who to avoid and who to embrace at that airport, although I prefer not to post publicly.

Thanks for the info. Also first post, so welcome!! I'll probably be flying on the weekends for exactly that reason. I don't like the idea of sitting in traffic for so long.... It looks like the NJ airports (Caldwell and Linden in particular) have the best access, and the places at CDW advertise that they'll pick you up from the bus, which is nice. That being said, if I look into things and FRG looks like a better option, I may well be back for more info on who to embrace and who to avoid...perhaps by PM. Any reason in particular you went to FRG instead of the other places? CDW, HPN? Actually it looks like HPN doesn't even have a rental outfit anymore, just a club, so that may be the problem there.

The cabbies say it is illegal (city ordinance, I guess?) for Uber to pick up from the train station (not FRG, sorry for the confusion), but no clue if that is actually true or not. A cab was $5 or $6, and Uber usually ran $10-$13. If my CFI couldn't give me a ride back to the station after flying (he did when he could), I had to Uber it because there's no chance a cab would just happen to drive by LIA any time soon. So it was usually a cab from train-FRG and my CFI or an Uber from FRG-train.

That's pretty crazy. Definitely something to look into. Gotta run my numbers...I don't think I'm going to like what they're looking at regardless!

How was Fisher's Island??? I'd love to make a landing there, looks like a challenge!

Fishers Island is a fabulous flight, highly highly recommend. I've actually been there three times I liked it so much. The first time I flew in, it was with a friend, and it was right before sunset so we had a gorgeous flight over the water to the island. We parked the plane, jumped out, wandered down and across the shorter of the two runways, and once you cross it you're at the beach! It's a rocky beach, but a beach nonetheless. Pretty special to be able to land that close to the water. The airport building was closed, so we didn't have to pay. The two other times I went back, the airport building/bike shop was open. $12 landing fee gets you a bike for the day, and you can pay $12 for each additional bike (I'd check on the fees in case they've changed). Cash only IIRC. Super fun island to explore, I went into "town" and got a sandwich at their deli/cafe and went just down the street from there to the ice cream store for a scoop. Super fun place to fly.

And you're right, the airport is a nice little challenge. All three times I've gone, I've landed Runway 25 since the wind was out of the west ish. It's only 1800 ft long, but it's 75 feet wide and looked brand new when I flew in. There aren't any obstructions on either end (of both runways for that matter) so you should have no issues getting down and stopped and then off the ground again in a 172 or similar. Again, highly recommend!

 

[josephades]

Thanks for the info. Also first post, so welcome!! I'll probably be flying on the weekends for exactly that reason. I don't like the idea of sitting in traffic for so long.... It looks like the NJ airports (Caldwell and Linden in particular) have the best access, and the places at CDW advertise that they'll pick you up from the bus, which is nice. That being said, if I look into things and FRG looks like a better option, I may well be back for more info on who to embrace and who to avoid...perhaps by PM. Any reason in particular you went to FRG instead of the other places? CDW, HPN? Actually it looks like HPN doesn't even have a rental outfit anymore, just a club, so that may be the problem there.

Thank you!!

No particular reason for not going to CDW or Linden. My first ever flight was through a groupon I received as a present and it was based out of FRG. Also, when I first started, I only went on Sunday mornings, and it took only 45 min from my house. I work out of Manhattan and live in Brooklyn. I calculated the average travel time from both home and office and they were all pretty much the same amount of time, with and without traffic. Also, if you recall, the city was doing construction on the Staten Island expressway for 2-3 years up until around September - October 2015. I had to account for that bumper to bumper traffic as well. Also - NY to NJ tolls which add up quickly.

Also now that I know a lot more than I used to, FRG has the best flexibility regarding the different schools available. More competition, better pricing for us consumers. At the time when I checked the other airports, they were more expensive than what my rate was.

Since I started at FRG and I'm familiar with it, I said I'll just finish it there as well. I know the instructors, the schools, and most importantly, the area.

Word of advise from my experience and I'm sure the experience of many others, try your best to fly 2-3 times a week. Guaranteed you'll average 2x a week because of weather and other cancellations that will come up. Also, when you spread out your lessons a week or more at a time, you aren't learning as well, and therefore spending more money. Also, instructors don't take Sunday students seriously, which again causes you to spend more money because they'll either cancel on you for BS reasons or they'll just pass you to other instructors (where you now have to spend time demonstrating what you already know). When I started going 2-3 times a week, my instructor took me way more seriously and we actually started to make progress.

 

[onezuludelta]

That being said, if I look into things and FRG looks like a better option, I may well be back for more info on who to embrace and who to avoid...perhaps by PM. Any reason in particular you went to FRG instead of the other places? CDW, HPN?

Also now that I know a lot more than I used to, FRG has the best flexibility regarding the different schools available. More competition, better pricing for us consumers. At the time when I checked the other airports, they were more expensive than what my rate was.

Additionally, it gets CRAZY crowded on the weekends, if you don't start EARLY you will burn a ton of Hobbs on the ground behind a line of Farmingdale State or Ventura planes. It felt like the conga line at LGA sometimes. and the majority of those planes will be pounding the pattern, so you end up with a ton of REALLY extended downwinds as ATC tries to cram everyone in. I've ended up almost over Long Island Sound a few times on those long downwinds, wondering if the controller had forgotten about me . On the plus side, I learned to be flexible and adapt to any situation that comes up, because almost none of my patterns ended up being standard. Not to be discouraging about FRG, just something to keep in mind.

 

[josephades]

Additionally, it gets CRAZY crowded on the weekends, if you don't start EARLY you will burn a ton of Hobbs on the ground behind a line of Farmingdale State or Ventura planes. It felt like the conga line at LGA sometimes. and the majority of those planes will be pounding the pattern, so you end up with a ton of REALLY extended downwinds as ATC tries to cram everyone in. I've ended up almost over Long Island Sound a few times on those long downwinds, wondering if the controller had forgotten about me . On the plus side, I learned to be flexible and adapt to any situation that comes up, because almost none of my patterns ended up being standard. Not to be discouraging about FRG, just something to keep in mind.

A good instructor will take you to another airport for pattern work if it gets too crazy. Also, being in the extremely busy environment turns you into a professional pilot when it comes to speaking with ATC.

A lot of pilots, both new and experienced, who haven't trained in a busy environment, are scared to get a class B transition, or to land inside a class B airport to begin with, because of all the talking that's going on. The reality is, when you come out of training from such a busy airport, class B is going to be the exact same thing. Less than a month after my PPL I landed at a class B. Also, no joke, less than a week after my PPL, I already started getting class B transitions and cleared into the bravo like a champ.

 

[jspilot]

Additionally, it gets CRAZY crowded on the weekends, if you don't start EARLY you will burn a ton of Hobbs on the ground behind a line of Farmingdale State or Ventura planes. It felt like the conga line at LGA sometimes. and the majority of those planes will be pounding the pattern, so you end up with a ton of REALLY extended downwinds as ATC tries to cram everyone in. I've ended up almost over Long Island Sound a few times on those long downwinds, wondering if the controller had forgotten about me . On the plus side, I learned to be flexible and adapt to any situation that comes up, because almost none of my patterns ended up being standard. Not to be discouraging about FRG, just something to keep in mind.

This is a great point to consider if choosing where to fly out of. That's why I always recommend Islip or Brookhaven. I've been flying for 5 years now and honestly never waited more than 5 minutes to take off at either airport. I fly plenty on the weekends and the thought of watching the Hobbs meter adding up while I'm number 5 for departure with 6 in the pattern is not something I want to spend my money on.

 

[paflyer]

This is a great point to consider if choosing where to fly out of. That's why I always recommend Islip or Brookhaven. I've been flying for 5 years now and honestly never waited more than 5 minutes to take off at either airport. I fly plenty on the weekends and the thought of watching the Hobbs meter adding up while I'm number 5 for departure with 6 in the pattern is not something I want to spend my money on.

Yeah, it's brutal. I'd suggest going out of NJ over LI.

Also, as far as Uber being "illegal" to pick up/drop at a LIRR station, that's BS.

 

[jpower]

Also now that I know a lot more than I used to, FRG has the best flexibility regarding the different schools available. More competition, better pricing for us consumers. At the time when I checked the other airports, they were more expensive than what my rate was.

Since I started at FRG and I'm familiar with it, I said I'll just finish it there as well. I know the instructors, the schools, and most importantly, the area.

Word of advise from my experience and I'm sure the experience of many others, try your best to fly 2-3 times a week. Guaranteed you'll average 2x a week because of weather and other cancellations that will come up. Also, when you spread out your lessons a week or more at a time, you aren't learning as well, and therefore spending more money. Also, instructors don't take Sunday students seriously, which again causes you to spend more money because they'll either cancel on you for BS reasons or they'll just pass you to other instructors (where you now have to spend time demonstrating what you already know). When I started going 2-3 times a week, my instructor took me way more seriously and we actually started to make progress.

I just finished up my instrument rating, so I'm well aware that you're totally right about the 2-3 times per week thing when in training! That's unfortunately not going to be feasible for the near future for me, but I'm happy with the ratings I have at least for now, so that's just how it'll have to be.

I'll call around to the places at FRG and see what their rates are. Side note, is there any reason places generally don't publish their rates online around here? I've flown in the DC area, Michigan, and Ohio, and they all said what their rates are online. I've flown in Hartford, CT and now looking around NYC, and nobody seems to publish their rates. Weird.

Additionally, it gets CRAZY crowded on the weekends, if you don't start EARLY you will burn a ton of Hobbs on the ground behind a line of Farmingdale State or Ventura planes. It felt like the conga line at LGA sometimes. and the majority of those planes will be pounding the pattern, so you end up with a ton of REALLY extended downwinds as ATC tries to cram everyone in. I've ended up almost over Long Island Sound a few times on those long downwinds, wondering if the controller had forgotten about me . On the plus side, I learned to be flexible and adapt to any situation that comes up, because almost none of my patterns ended up being standard. Not to be discouraging about FRG, just something to keep in mind.

This is a great point to consider if choosing where to fly out of. That's why I always recommend Islip or Brookhaven. I've been flying for 5 years now and honestly never waited more than 5 minutes to take off at either airport. I fly plenty on the weekends and the thought of watching the Hobbs meter adding up while I'm number 5 for departure with 6 in the pattern is not something I want to spend my money on.

Yeah, it's brutal. I'd suggest going out of NJ over LI.

Also, as far as Uber being "illegal" to pick up/drop at a LIRR station, that's BS.

Yeah I don't like the idea of waiting around that much...though I hear getting an IFR release out of CDW can be a huuuge pain in the butt and good for a nice long wait. Anyone know how New York Approach is about picking up IFR in the air? I assume they frown on it in a major way, but I'd be interested in any local knowledge as well.

 

[jspilot]

I just finished up my instrument rating, so I'm well aware that you're totally right about the 2-3 times per week thing when in training! That's unfortunately not going to be feasible for the near future for me, but I'm happy with the ratings I have at least for now, so that's just how it'll have to be.

I'll call around to the places at FRG and see what their rates are. Side note, is there any reason places generally don't publish their rates online around here? I've flown in the DC area, Michigan, and Ohio, and they all said what their rates are online. I've flown in Hartford, CT and now looking around NYC, and nobody seems to publish their rates. Weird.

Yeah I don't like the idea of waiting around that much...though I hear getting an IFR release out of CDW can be a huuuge pain in the butt and good for a nice long wait. Anyone know how New York Approach is about picking up IFR in the air? I assume they frown on it in a major way, but I'd be interested in any local knowledge as well.

I've never heard anyone request ifr in the air on 120.05 but I'm rarely flying on days where people migh need an ifr clearance. In general, the controllers around New York are fantastic so they may be fine with the request as long as you do the request correctly!

 

[jordane93]

I just finished up my instrument rating, so I'm well aware that you're totally right about the 2-3 times per week thing when in training! That's unfortunately not going to be feasible for the near future for me, but I'm happy with the ratings I have at least for now, so that's just how it'll have to be.

I'll call around to the places at FRG and see what their rates are. Side note, is there any reason places generally don't publish their rates online around here? I've flown in the DC area, Michigan, and Ohio, and they all said what their rates are online. I've flown in Hartford, CT and now looking around NYC, and nobody seems to publish their rates. Weird.







Yeah I don't like the idea of waiting around that much...though I hear getting an IFR release out of CDW can be a huuuge pain in the butt and good for a nice long wait. Anyone know how New York Approach is about picking up IFR in the air? I assume they frown on it in a major way, but I'd be interested in any local knowledge as well.

They'd prefer if you get it on the ground, especially if it's peak hours. I've heard them give clearances over the air occasionally. The release time isn't bad at all.