opening flight plans

exncsurfer

exncsurfer

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exncsurfer
I have a couple of probably dumb questions. I know I can(and will) ask my flight instructor so save that response.

Can you(or have you) open a flight plan just to test your EFB app? Is this frowned upon? Bogus flight plans going into 'the system'.

Do you typically file two flight plans or one for a short round trip, say out and back, either touch/go and return or short stop?

Thanks.
 
Personally, I don't think I'd do the "test" flight plan activation. It might be a test to you, but it's not a test in the system.

As far as one or two (or more) flight plans for a trip that's up to you. I've filed and activated flight plans for the entire day of travel when I was flying in Alaska. I've know people to file a flight plan where they go on a camping trip and plan to be back in a week. The flight plan stays open the entire time. If they don't make it back in time, someone comes looking.
 
What's wrong with filing a test flight plan?

Just don't activate it unless you're really flying it, or someone might think you crashed and go looking for you.

Even IFR. If you never accept a clearance it just expires.
 
MAKG1 said:
What's wrong with filing a test flight plan?

Just don't activate it unless you're really flying it, or someone might think you crashed and go looking for you.

Even IFR. If you never accept a clearance it just expires.
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When he said "open" I assumed he meant activating it. Just filing it should be fine. Lot's of folks file and then never open their flight plan.
 
jimbilly said:
I have a couple of probably dumb questions. I know I can(and will) ask my flight instructor so save that response.
Click to expand...

First, there are no dumb questions. You can't imagine how many times I've asked "stupid questions" and learned things I would have never thought of.

I personally wouldn't even file a test flight plan. Maybe it's me, but I cringe at thinking of a plethora of fake flight plans. Don't some filing services have you agree to a Terms of Service that says you won't file a plan you don't intend to fly?
 
The only flight plans I open are required because I'm filing/flying IFR/IMC. So, no. I am not opening them unless I'm airborne or getting a clearance void.
 
EdFred said:
The only flight plans I open are required because I'm filing/flying IFR/IMC. So, no. I am not opening them unless I'm airborne or getting a clearance void.
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Same.

I heard somewhere that VFR flight plans don't even get sent to the towers / ATC. Is this true, and if so, I don't understand the real use for a VFR flight plan other than SAR.
 
FreqFlyrJr said:
Same.

I heard somewhere that VFR flight plans don't even get sent to the towers / ATC. Is this true, and if so, I don't understand the real use for a VFR flight plan other than SAR.
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If overflying or flying to/from Canada VFR, it's required - so my trip to/from Alaska this year I will be filing them. But other than that VFR flight plans just stick with FSS.
 
jimbilly said:
I have a couple of probably dumb questions. I know I can(and will) ask my flight instructor so save that response.

Can you(or have you) open a flight plan just to test your EFB app? Is this frowned upon? Bogus flight plans going into 'the system'.

Do you typically file two flight plans or one for a short round trip, say out and back, either touch/go and return or short stop?

Thanks.
Click to expand...


You can file as others have said. Garmin Pilot has this really annoying "feature" that when you file an IFR plan it'll come back with proposed routing from ATC. There are two buttons on that message that will ACTIVATE the flight plan, one that just says Ignore. Have to be careful with that one.

I never file a plan for VFR unless I'm going really far from home and if I am going far from home I'll USUALLY go IFR.

For my IFR flight plans if I'm doing practice approaches I'll file a flight plan for the leg to the airport I'm doing approaches at, and another flight plan for the way back. Just easier on ATC that way, especially if I'm crossing between different centers.

In the rare circumstance I do file a VFR plan for what you described, I'll put something in the notes like T&G at KLAL or note a fuel stop. I do the same for IFR plans.

The notes section can be very helpful. I filed a round-trip IFR plan with a fuel stopover and ATC was kind enough to keep it open while I refueled since I gave them an estimate of time on the ground. That's probably pretty rare but it worked out.
 
Caramon13 said:
The notes section can be very helpful. I filed a round-trip IFR plan with a fuel stopover and ATC was kind enough to keep it open while I refueled since I gave them an estimate of time on the ground. That's probably pretty rare but it worked out.
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I've had the same happen with me. It seems like most of the time ATC would rather leave you open rather than close and open two plans. It's super common with VFR flight-following around where I fly.
 
Yeah, in my case it was actually a bit of a surprise. They asked me if I was full stop for fuel, said yeah (told them I put it in the notes) and they said they'd "try" to keep it open. Departed VFR from the field and tower didn't know anything about an IFR for me, so I figured they'd closed it.

Checked in with approach on the way out and they said yeah it's still open and gave me my clearance back. Which was good actually since I had Bravo airspace between me and my destination, made the flight much quicker. Dunno if I would have gotten the Bravo clearance on a VFR plan.

I offered to go VFR, but the controller was very accommodating. Tell you what, that's one thing I definitely LOVE about IFR plans, you can file and you don't have to confirm with every center along the way about traversing Bravo airspace or special-use airspace (though I still check anyway for restricted's and such).
 
FreqFlyrJr said:
Same.

I heard somewhere that VFR flight plans don't even get sent to the towers / ATC. Is this true, and if so, I don't understand the real use for a VFR flight plan other than SAR.
Click to expand...
It's true. And there is no real use for a VFR flight plan other than SAR. With a few regulatory exceptions like VFR flight in the SFRA, that's the whole idea.
 
jimbilly said:
I have a couple of probably dumb questions. I know I can(and will) ask my flight instructor so save that response.

Can you(or have you) open a flight plan just to test your EFB app? Is this frowned upon? Bogus flight plans going into 'the system'.
Click to expand...
No problem doing that. I've done it. I guess if you get carried away and file 50 of them the same hour, someone might raise a question, but other than something like that...

Do you typically file two flight plans or one for a short round trip, say out and back, either touch/go and return or short stop?
Click to expand...
Some (including me) prefer to file separate fight plans. Others file one.

Either way, bearing in mind the purpose of a VFR flight plan - to give SAR an idea where to look - even if you file a single one, you will want to call Flight Service to update your location.
 
OK, so I did it, hopefully the feds don't come looking for me. What I did was test my plan filing app, Avare. I filled it in and filed it, went to 1800wxbrief and was able to see the plan there as Proposed. I could have canceled it from there, but I wanted to test canceling from my app, so I canceled it in Avare, then went back to dashboard on wxbrief site and verified it was gone.

I wouldn't think a flight plan for a 30 min. hop is all that necessary either, but the fbo requires it for student pilot xc, and the cfi wants me to figure out how to file and activate.
 
jimbilly said:
OK, so I did it, hopefully the feds don't come looking for me. What I did was test my plan filing app, Avare. I filled it in and filed it, went to 1800wxbrief and was able to see the plan there as Proposed. I could have canceled it from there, but I wanted to test canceling from my app, so I canceled it in Avare, then went back to dashboard on wxbrief site and verified it was gone.

I wouldn't think a flight plan for a 30 min. hop is all that necessary either, but the fbo requires it for student pilot xc, and the cfi wants me to figure out how to file and activate.
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Sounds like you filed, but did not activate so you're fine. Garmin (like Avare) has a similar process. Their plans go through 4 steps:
  1. Unfiled
  2. Filed
  3. Proposed
  4. Activated
Proposed is usually what ATC will come back with once you file. If you didn't activate either with ATC or using the app, it's probably no big deal :). And if you're REALLY concerned, just call up 1800WXBRIEF and see if they have one that's activated and you can cancel/close it.

I found out a few months ago that plans will stay in the system up to 2 hours after the departure time if not activated. They will disappear from the site after an hour, but they stay around "somewhere" for a bit longer. LockMart can adjust departure times for anything less than 30 minutes out, more than that and you can amend.
 
Now, I just have to figure out how to activate it in the air, if need be. (i know, i know, you should know that!!).

thanks for the input everyone.
 
Caramon13 said:
Sounds like you filed, but did not activate so you're fine. Garmin (like Avare) has a similar process. Their plans go through 4 steps:
  1. Unfiled
  2. Filed
  3. Proposed
  4. Activated
Proposed is usually what ATC will come back with once you file. If you didn't activate either with ATC or using the app, it's probably no big deal :). And if you're REALLY concerned, just call up 1800WXBRIEF and see if they have one that's activated and you can cancel/close it.
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Does ATC typically activate for you, I was told that they would if they weren't busy, I'd like to know how annoying i'm being if I ask for this.
 
They will activate IFR for you of course, VFR plans usually no. If tower does it, they are probably doing you a favor since they have to phone up FSS to do it (I believe), unlike IFR plans which have a strip.

You should really be activating with FSS in the air or ahead of time on the ground if your departure is imminent.
 
jimbilly said:
Now, I just have to figure out how to activate it in the air, if need be. (i know, i know, you should know that!!).

thanks for the input everyone.
Click to expand...

Honestly there's no real need to activate in the air, only cancel. To cancel in the air, go on your sectional chart and find the nearest Flight Service Station (FSS) and give them a call on their frequency. They'll be able to close (and open if you really want to) your plans.
 
FreqFlyrJr said:
Honestly there's no real need to activate in the air, only cancel. To cancel in the air, go on your sectional chart and find the nearest Flight Service Station (FSS) and give them a call on their frequency. They'll be able to close (and open if you really want to) your plans.
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No real need to cancel in the air either. You can cancel them on the ground.
And I would guess most pilot who use VFR flight plans activate them in the air most of the time.
 
Yeah, flying in the system VFR before I got my instrument I would activate in the air using any FSS outlet and most times amend the departure time (especially if I had to wait to leave).

Cancelling I did on the drive home or after the engine was stopped on the ground.

The first IFR plan I filed I got paranoid about whether or not the plan was closed and called FSS who forwarded me to TRACON. The lady on the phone was pretty cross and said "You should know that IFR plans are closed automatically", and yeah I guess I should have but it was my first IFR flight plan on my long cross country and my VFR habits got the better of me :).
 
midlifeflyer said:
No real need to cancel in the air either. You can cancel them on the ground.
And I would guess most pilot who use VFR flight plans activate them in the air most of the time.
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This pilot activates VFR flight plans by phone, with the engine running, shortly before take-off. I'll either call FSS (on the phone) or use an online link.
Much easier than trying to raise FSS on the radio at low altitude whilst also needing to establish contact with ATC prior to either entering their airspace or crossing the international border just a few miles away.
 
Caramon13 said:
Yeah, flying in the system VFR before I got my instrument I would activate in the air using any FSS outlet and most times amend the departure time (especially if I had to wait to leave).

Cancelling I did on the drive home or after the engine was stopped on the ground.

The first IFR plan I filed I got paranoid about whether or not the plan was closed and called FSS who forwarded me to TRACON. The lady on the phone was pretty cross and said "You should know that IFR plans are closed automatically", and yeah I guess I should have but it was my first IFR flight plan on my long cross country and my VFR habits got the better of me :).
Click to expand...

You do have to close IFR flight plans if you land at a nontowered airport, unless you cancel during the approach. If there are clouds inside the FAF, canceling is not an option.
 
MAKG1 said:
You do have to close IFR flight plans if you land at a nontowered airport, unless you cancel during the approach. If there are clouds inside the FAF, canceling is not an option.
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It most certainly can be an option. Don't make blanket statements.

Example:

The VOR approach into my home 'drome has the FAF at 3000 (2200AGL). WX is OVC020. I cross the FAF still in the soup, descend 200' and I pop out. I descend another 500' down to 1500AGL, and cancel since I have the required 500' of clearance in class E airspace. Done it this way every time I fly that approach in actual, even when clouds are reported lower because the minimums for a DME fix actually takes me into G airspace (600' vs the 700' E overlying E floor) and I've cancelled as soon as I break out - and I've been legal since I'm clear of clouds.
 
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I got a pop up, cleared for an approach and I landed. Called in (no RCO) and they said I was already cancelled. He just cancelled it for me without a request right after I was cleared for the approach, I think.
 
JoeSelch said:
This pilot activates VFR flight plans by phone, with the engine running, shortly before take-off. I'll either call FSS (on the phone) or use an online link.
Much easier than trying to raise FSS on the radio at low altitude whilst also needing to establish contact with ATC prior to either entering their airspace or crossing the international border just a few miles away.
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I wasn't suggesting it had to be one way or the other. Just that I think most pilots are taught to open in the air and cancel on the ground. To paraphrase your post

I used to activate VFR flight plans by radio, with the engine running, shortly before take-off. After landing, I called FSS to close, also on the radio while taxiing back to parking.

There are options.
 
If you register with www.1800wxbrief.com (Lockheed-Martin), opening and closing flight plans is accomplished by text message. Lots of goodies in its Dashboard...check it out.

Bob Gardner
 
midlifeflyer said:
I wasn't suggesting it had to be one way or the other. Just that I think most pilots are taught to open in the air and cancel on the ground. To paraphrase your post

I used to activate VFR flight plans by radio, with the engine running, shortly before take-off. After landing, I called FSS to close, also on the radio while taxiing back to parking.

There are options.
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I know. That's why I pointed one out.
(while also indicating that I'm not one of your "most")
 
bobmrg said:
If you register with www.1800wxbrief.com (Lockheed-Martin), opening and closing flight plans is accomplished by text message. Lots of goodies in its Dashboard...check it out.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...
I saw that 'easy close' feature. Do you know if the text message method requires a web connection? It sounds like it would. Like, does the text message launch a URL, or do you just reply to the text via text. I have a semi dumb phone, so I can text but have no data/web unless i'm in a wifi zone. I can always call the number and close by voice.
 
jimbilly said:
I saw that 'easy close' feature. Do you know if the text message method requires a web connection? It sounds like it would. Like, does the text message launch a URL, or do you just reply to the text via text. I have a semi dumb phone, so I can text but have no data/web unless i'm in a wifi zone. I can always call the number and close by voice.
Click to expand...
Ask 1800wxbrief using your dumb phone...they are very helpful.

Bob
 
Caramon13 said:
Yeah, flying in the system VFR before I got my instrument I would activate in the air using any FSS outlet and most times amend the departure time (especially if I had to wait to leave).

Cancelling I did on the drive home or after the engine was stopped on the ground.

The first IFR plan I filed I got paranoid about whether or not the plan was closed and called FSS who forwarded me to TRACON. The lady on the phone was pretty cross and said "You should know that IFR plans are closed automatically", and yeah I guess I should have but it was my first IFR flight plan on my long cross country and my VFR habits got the better of me :).
Click to expand...

The above was me for years and years.

Then Foreflight added the ability to not only file but activate.

And my headset got Bluetooth.

Both in various combinations have made life soooo much nicer.

bobmrg said:
If you register with www.1800wxbrief.com (Lockheed-Martin), opening and closing flight plans is accomplished by text message. Lots of goodies in its Dashboard...check it out.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

And this stuff too.

I do miss having real flight service stations but the world is moving on. And some of it is better. Some worse.

I haven't dialed 800-WX-BRIEF in years and when I did a flight with an old CFI in the mountains who wanted to use it and RCOs like we did "back in the day" to let the local FSS know where we were on a round-robin Mountain flight, including pass names and such, the LockMart briefer so obviously didn't have any fields to type that kind of stuff into, it was painful to listen to him interact with them over the phone and in the air.

In ancient times, DEN FSS just marked mountain training and other mountain flights on a board on the wall with pins and a little strip with the tail number, so when they went missing, somebody at least knew where to start looking from their last check in near one of the FSS RCOs up in the rocks. They'd just move the little pin along the round robin flight plan filed.

Nothing available like that anymore other than just buying a SPOT and DIY. And definitely nobody left that knows mountain weather. The briefer was in Arizona.
 
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