One piece of metal in oil filter

[JAWS]

Maybe, but I do know piston pin plugs are aluminum, and don't give off chips that can be picked up with a magnet. like the one in post #1

C'mon, man.

The SI I linked is titled https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Piston Pin Plug Wear Inspection.pdf. But when you read it, it actually talks about "Oil Filter/Suction Screen Content Inspection" and "Spectrographic Oil Analysis". Lycoming wants to help people in the field to be able to examine filter contents and make good decisions, with one area of concern being piston pin wear. There are many areas that could cause metal in the filter, which is why I copied this relevant part:

"j. If any single or several pieces of magnetic or nonmagnetic metal larger than previously mentioned in steps e. through i. Ground aircraft and investigate.
NOTE
If the origin of the metal contamination cannot be determined, a call may be made to the Lycoming Product Support Department. A good description (photographs, color and quantity, etc.) of the metal may result in placing its origin. When phoning Lycoming or when returning metal removed from engines, supply the complete engine model designation, serial number, history of engine, oil temperature, oil pressures, and any unusual behavior of the engine on the ground or during flight. Do not ship material to Lycoming without first calling the Product Support Department."

If the title is getting you all wound up, get over it. It is relevant.

You don't know shi- about this engine or how to trouble shoot it, You don't know when there debris occurred You don't know if it will reoccur.

And neither do you, sir. I don't know the history either, which is why I like to be conservative when it comes to giving advice. I even broke out my "Sky Ranch Engineering Manual" and John Schwaner has similar advice as I have given for this issue. That book is an excellent resource for owners and maintainers alike.

 

[JAWS]

The OP indicated that the piece of metal was caught in the oil filter. I am far from an expert, but doesn't it look too large to have gone through the Lycoming oil screen? If so, then doesn't that limit the possible sources of the metal to parts downstream of the oil screen and upstream of the oil filter? What is there? The oil pump? What else?

Or is it not uncommon for the oil screen to be compromised to the point that such a large piece of metal might pass through it?

Excellent point.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Tom, just give up. These ignoramuses that don't have any alphabetics after their names and who are just Nervous Nellies about a chunk of metal in the mix have evidently no grease under their fingernails.

Any damned fool that takes ONE ISOLATED instance of metal, no matter the supposed source, are the folks that send our kids to college and provide us Hawaiian vacations. For no good reason other than the sycophants of this thread who think they know engine maintenance better than those of who have been doing this for over half a century have an unsupported reason for scaring the OP into an expensive "fix" when there is no "fix" necessary.

You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves unless you come with chops that show up Tom and I.

Jim

I do have initials behind my name.
For that matter I have about 3 thousands hours of flight time operating helicopters and airplanes that I maintained. So not only is there grease under my nails, but very often it was my own ass in a sling if I screwed up.

 

[Stewartb]

The OP indicated that the piece of metal was caught in the oil filter. I am far from an expert, but doesn't it look too large to have gone through the Lycoming oil screen? If so, then doesn't that limit the possible sources of the metal to parts downstream of the oil screen and upstream of the oil filter? What is there? The oil pump? What else?

Or is it not uncommon for the oil screen to be compromised to the point that such a large piece of metal might pass through it?

My memory of a 4 cyl Lycoming is that the oil goes from suction screen to accessory case to oil filter, so a broken gear tooth makes sense.

 

[Tom-D]

C'mon, man.

The SI I linked is titled https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Piston Pin Plug Wear Inspection.pdf. But when you read it, it actually talks about "Oil Filter/Suction Screen Content Inspection" and "Spectrographic Oil Analysis". Lycoming wants to help people in the field to be able to examine filter contents and make good decisions, with one area of concern being piston pin wear. There are many areas that could cause metal in the filter, which is why I copied this relevant part:

"j. If any single or several pieces of magnetic or nonmagnetic metal larger than previously mentioned in steps e. through i. Ground aircraft and investigate.
NOTE
If the origin of the metal contamination cannot be determined, a call may be made to the Lycoming Product Support Department. A good description (photographs, color and quantity, etc.) of the metal may result in placing its origin. When phoning Lycoming or when returning metal removed from engines, supply the complete engine model designation, serial number, history of engine, oil temperature, oil pressures, and any unusual behavior of the engine on the ground or during flight. Do not ship material to Lycoming without first calling the Product Support Department."

If the title is getting you all wound up, get over it. It is relevant.
And neither do you, sir. I don't know the history either, which is why I like to be conservative when it comes to giving advice. I even broke out my "Sky Ranch Engineering Manual" and John Schwaner has similar advice as I have given for this issue. That book is an excellent resource for owners and maintainers alike.

Your reference does discuss filter inspection,, but lets give credit where it belongs, How do you believe they found this,,, re-read post 1
And you are exactly correct again when You said I don't either, but I never said I did.

The only way to be certain this engine is making metal is to run it, with new oil, filter and a clean suction screen. Any other way you are just guessing.
If you like to panic, and have this engine overhauled go ahead, but to do that your spending a hell of a lot of money for maybe no reason. This chip may have been in the sump for a long time, with the engine running well, If so, it will it will continue to do so.
but you must start some where in the trouble shooting procedure, step one, square one, flush the sump, change oil and filter, and run it (penalty run) see what happens, check the filter again, see what ya got. When you get metal again it's over. But at least you'd know you didn't throw away a good engine.

 

[Tom-D]

I do have initials behind my name.
For that matter I have about 3 thousands hours of flight time operating helicopters and airplanes that I maintained. So not only is there grease under my nails, but very often it was my own ass in a sling if I screwed up.

Prove it.

 

[Tom-D]

Tom, just give up. These ignoramuses that don't have any alphabetics after their names and who are just Nervous Nellies about a chunk of metal in the mix have evidently no grease under their fingernails.

Any damned fool that takes ONE ISOLATED instance of metal, no matter the supposed source, are the folks that send our kids to college and provide us Hawaiian vacations. For no good reason other than the sycophants of this thread who think they know engine maintenance better than those of who have been doing this for over half a century have an unsupported reason for scaring the OP into an expensive "fix" when there is no "fix" necessary.

You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves unless you come with chops that show up Tom and I.

Jim

Thank you Jim... But OMG there is metal in my oil..
It is a big deal for the owner with this problem, but trouble shooting on line alway leads to this.
And those who act like tailwheel just expose themselves to who they are, makes me wonder why they believe they are qualified to judge.

 

[Tom-D]

I do have initials behind my name.
For that matter I have about 3 thousands hours of flight time operating helicopters and airplanes that I maintained. So not only is there grease under my nails, but very often it was my own ass in a sling if I screwed up.

You have shi-, prove who you are.
Charley Malot, Jim and my self operate in the open you know who we are, you hide in the weeds of a moniker and think you have creditability, well think again you have shi-t.

 

[JAWS]

Any other way you are just guessing.

Really? How about pulling the mags and checking the gears for missing teeth? How about using a boroscope to visually check the other gears, maybe pull a couple of other accessories to check their gears? How about talking with actual experts and showing them the piece to see if they have an idea where it came from and if there is a bigger problem that might manifest itself at a potentially inopportune time? How about getting the piece anaylized to see what material it is and then figure out where that material is used within the engine? What is the history of the engine?

The engine supposedly has 1600 hours on a high performance aircraft. The piece shown isn't the typical slivers and flakes one would normally expect to find, it is a chunk. What it is and where it came from, who knows. I wouldn't feel comfortable flying around with an engine that makes mystery metal chunks without an explanation and it seems like others tend to share the same sentiment.

Both my friend, the mechanic and I disagree.

I am not advocating blindly overhauling the engine or doing the bare minimum either. Everyone involved with this thing, I think, are on the right track.

They are looking at the accessory side next week.

An excellent idea!

I wish the owner of this engine good luck.

 

[Tom-D]

when you do the first run, and it makes metal, Are going to try to make it all better ? hell no, it is out of here.
step one square one Remember ?

 

[Tom-D]

Remember one thing, If this engine is making hard metal (steel) it is toast.

But if its not?

 

[Tom-D]

Really? How about pulling the mags and checking the gears for missing teeth? How about using a boroscope to visually check the other gears, maybe pull a couple of other accessories to check their gears? .

There are a multitude of things you can do AFTER you know it is not continuing to make metal.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Prove it.

I already did. The same way you have proven your credentials. You don’t believe me I don’t really care.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

You have shi-, prove who you are.
Charley Malot, Jim and my self operate in the open you know who we are, you hide in the weeds of a moniker and think you have creditability, well think again you have shi-t.

I have no idea who you are.

I’ll stand by what I said to you in the other thread. There are a couple of possibilities:
You are terrible at communicating and some how manage to mis state what you were really think ... a lot

You are a troll

You really believe the crap you post and are not trustworthy with a wrench.

That all being said your last response to this thread was actually coherent and presented as a complete thought that was clear in its message. I think someone must have stolen you login... or perhaps now that someone is actually busting your balls you put away the troll hat and just said what you were thinking instead of playing a game.

As far as my credibility I have my A&P along with a few other pieces of green plastic. I don’t care if you believe it or not. I choose to be anonymous on this board because I’m a private person. Not because I’m hiding. You don’t like that that’s your choice.


If you have anything else to say send it to me in a PM.

 

[Katamarino]

Tom, just give up. These ignoramuses that don't have any alphabetics after their names and who are just Nervous Nellies about a chunk of metal in the mix have evidently no grease under their fingernails.

Any damned fool that takes ONE ISOLATED instance of metal, no matter the supposed source, are the folks that send our kids to college and provide us Hawaiian vacations. For no good reason other than the sycophants of this thread who think they know engine maintenance better than those of who have been doing this for over half a century have an unsupported reason for scaring the OP into an expensive "fix" when there is no "fix" necessary.

You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves unless you come with chops that show up Tom and I.

Jim

None of what I have read from Tom on this board, or about the fate of some of the engines he has worked on, has encouraged me to trust his opinions.