One hand on the yoke?

Kritchlow said:
Shucks... It's been many years but I always thought over banking tendency in steep turns was because the outer (high) wing had a faster IAS, thus created more lift.
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Myth. Think about a steep turn, the airplane is still far from the center of the turn, Not really a significant difference in relative wind over a 30 ft span compared to the 500ft center radius, also due to the angle of bank the wings are actually very close together relative to the center of turn, maybe only few feet(In a 90 degree bank there would be no difference between the inner and outer, I mean top and bottom, wings)

Edit: I could be wrong on this.

Dave
 
Back when I instructed I used to tell students that the aerodynamic principles I explained would all be over simplifications . The FAA does this in their publications also and for good reason. Even today new theories of flight are emerging. One of the biggest problems with explaining aerodynamics is that gravity's effect moves around relative to the airplane.

On this board it's fun to look deeper, but the FAA definition of over banking is still good and reccomended of course for a check ride.

Problem is to demonstrate over banking you have to let the nose drop, it just isn't there in most light airplanes.

Dave
 
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Sgu2-22 said:
Myth. Think about a steep turn, the airplane is still far from the center of the turn, Not really a significant difference in relative wind over a 30 ft span compared to the 500ft center radius, also due to the angle of bank the wings are actually very close together relative to the center of turn, maybe only few feet(In a 90 degree bank there would be no difference between the inner and outer, I mean top and bottom, wings)

Edit: I could be wrong on this.

Dave
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30 feet is 6% of that 500 foot radius. That's not insignificant and it WILL make a difference in lift. Even if we called it 15 feet, we still have a 3% difference.
 
Sgu2-22 said:
Myth. Think about a steep turn, the airplane is still far from the center of the turn, Not really a significant difference in relative wind over a 30 ft span compared to the 500ft center radius
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Really? Why does overbanking tendency increase with constant bank angle but smaller turn radius?
 
dmspilot said:
Really? Why does overbanking tendency increase with constant bank angle but smaller turn radius?
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Hmmm, I haven't tried this but I can see mathematically it would be so. Next time I'm up in the Cessna I will try a 60 degree turn with the stall horn sounding and see if there is an overbanking tendency with the smaller turning radius.

Dave
 
dmspilot said:
Really? Why does overbanking tendency increase with constant bank angle but smaller turn radius?
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That answer is dependent on your perception of overbanking and tight turns. In my world? Because the pilot is distracted by looking at something on the ground and is using rudder to reduce the turn radius. That's a dangerous maneuver, flying a tight steep turn uncoordinated. Coordinated it's no big thing. We call max performance/minimum radius turns Face Benders. Enter the turn at 70mph (Cessna) with two notches of flap, go to 45* plus bank while applying full power and full flaps, and pull. That's a standard escape turn for mountain flying.
 
Stewartb said:
That answer is dependent on your perception of overbanking and tight turns. In my world? Because the pilot is distracted by looking at something on the ground and is using rudder to reduce the turn radius.
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Seems like a non sequitur. Your argument is that overbanking tendency does not actually exist?
 
Dan Thomas said:
Best thing is a stick. Many, many airplanes had sticks until more women wanted to start flying, back in the days when they still wore skirts most of the time. The stick made that a problem, especially getting in and out. So the airplane manufacturers began to promote the control wheel instead even though it cost more to build and added weight.

Lots of you guys are flying ladies' airplanes....:wink2:
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Where in the world did you get this BS? Been aviating for a long time and never heard such nonsense! FYI there are women fighter pilots who fly fighters with a 'stick', although the newer fighters have the side stick like a F-16. There many women who fly GA airplanes with a stick. Crazy talk dude! :rolleyes::nono:
 
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mscard88 said:
Where in the world did you get this BS? Been aviating for a long time and never heard such nonsense! FYI there are women fighter pilots who fly fighters with a 'stick', although the newer fighters have the side stick like a F-16. There many women who fly GA airplanes with a stick. Crazy talk dude! :rolleyes::nono:
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I'm not sure, but I'm liking the visual picture. :D
 
I don't care what you say, stick DOES NOT rhyme with that other *ick....:nono:
 
Its a stick, in the middle of my legs and Im holding onto it tightly with my right hand. Now Im a sophisticated educated man with manners, but criminy, I just can't resist that one!!!!!!!!!
 
Is this technique no longer taught the first time you sit your ass in the plane? Good grief.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I want to fly with 2 hands but I can't :(
images.jpg

<--The other hand goes here.
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Have you learned what that does since your video so you can start touching it?
 
Stewartb said:
Enter the turn at 70mph (Cessna) with two notches of flap, go to 45* plus bank while applying full power and full flaps, and pull. That's a standard escape turn for mountain flying.
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That's the "standard" last ditch effort. You should have already been turning prior to that toward your "out". Just sayin'.

That's the "I waited way too damned long" maneuver. And there's a nice video of a Bird Dog doing it and running out of airspeed and space all at the same time, that spun in and wasn't found for years.

Pilot missed multiple opportunities to turn out downhill and didn't. Killed him and his grandson.
 
About 15 hrs ago I had a real problem getting the landings (turns out it was a vision thing with keeping my reading glasses on). Anyway, while learning the site picture and proper roundout, on final after the runway was made and power was at idle, I would use both hands. My cfi didn't bust me because he sensed my frustration. Landings finally clicked and he said, "ok, no more two hands, one on the throttle at all times in the pattern just like you did in the beginning".

I trim whenever I need to but I know I always trim on final which allows minor adjustments easily with just one hand and the other hand stays on the throttle except for brief moments when adjusting trim or flaps.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Its a stick, in the middle of my legs and Im holding onto it tightly with my right hand. Now Im a sophisticated educated man with manners, but criminy, I just can't resist that one!!!!!!!!!
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What if you're flying from the right seat? :D
 
Ive flown into a box canyon and the best technique is a slow 180 degree turn at best glide back out the way you came in. Smooth and easy as you go. Nothing fancy.
 
denverpilot said:
Pilot missed multiple opportunities to turn out downhill and didn't. Killed him and his grandson.
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I assume you are referring to the 1984 Tabernash crash?

Where did you get that it was his grandson? Everything I've read on that accident said the passenger was a friend and the reason for the video camera was to document beetle damage to the trees.
 
I did better today! Really focused on making sure to keep one hand on the yoke and using the trim wheel to relieve pressure
 
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Fearless Tower said:
I assume you are referring to the 1984 Tabernash crash?

Where did you get that it was his grandson? Everything I've read on that accident said the passenger was a friend and the reason for the video camera was to document beetle damage to the trees.
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Hmm. I'll go see where I made that correlation. "Hold on Ronnie", was the quote before the crash in the video. I'll see if I can find the full name. I swear I remember that the flight was the return trip home after the beetle kill survey. Don't have time to go dig up the NTSB and cross reference the obituary right now.

But it wouldn't matter for purposes of my reply. Change it to "killed someone in the back seat" for that.
 
mscard88 said:
During takeoff and climb, and in the pattern for landing yes.

On takeoff and climb out you want a hand on the throttle to insure you're getting full power while taking off and climbing. On landing in case of a go-around so you're ready to apply full power.
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Back to the OP's question - there is another reason to keep a hand on the throttle. Anytime there is an instructor in the right seat you must do this. Every time I've had an unplanned reduction in power it has been due to the CFI in the right seat. Keeping your hand on the throttle keeps them out of mischief. :D
 
I only use 1 & 1/5th of a hand; One hand holding my coffee cup and a finger to push buttons on the MCP.
 
Unless you have the reflexes of a drugged sloth, in lighter GA planes it doesn't matter what you do with your right hand. . .
 
Speaking of a hand on the yoke and a hand on the throttle, am I doing something wrong because it gets very tiring for me after a hour of flying.Sorta feels like it's about to cramp.

Any tips?

I really liked the armrests and side stick of an acquaintance's Cozy IV I flew in. So much comfier than a Cessna. Wouldn't mind flying a bit more in that when I get the chance.
 
TangoEchoAlpha said:
Speaking of a hand on the yoke and a hand on the throttle, am I doing something wrong because it gets very tiring for me after a hour of flying.Sorta feels like it's about to cramp.
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If your hand is cramping up you are holding too tight. Relax your hand.
 
TangoEchoAlpha said:
Speaking of a hand on the yoke and a hand on the throttle, am I doing something wrong because it gets very tiring for me after a hour of flying.Sorta feels like it's about to cramp.

Any tips?

I really liked the armrests and side stick of an acquaintance's Cozy IV I flew in. So much comfier than a Cessna. Wouldn't mind flying a bit more in that when I get the chance.
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Please tell me you aren't flying for an hour with up your hand on the throttle? My left elbow is on the armrest, left hand in the yoke, right hand generally in my lap when I'm not setting / changing power, radios,writing notes, drinking water, etc.
 
Hank S said:
Please tell me you aren't flying for an hour with up your hand on the throttle? My left elbow is on the armrest, left hand in the yoke, right hand generally in my lap when I'm not setting / changing power, radios,writing notes, drinking water, etc.
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Well, I actually was keeping my right hand on the throttle the whole time. My previous CFI told me to keep my hands on the throttle. Then again, we were practicing maneuvers such as turns, straight and level, descents, climbs in no particular order.
My previous
 
Once trimmed up, the airplane should mostly fly itself. Today was a little bumpy, so I had to coax the airplane a little more than normal, but most of the time I was flying hands off.
 
I liked flying a Citabria doing TW endorsement training. The stick in my right hand with throttle on the left just felt natural and gave me great control of the aircraft. My left hand was on the throttle almost all the time. I don't remember using two hands on the stick once.
 
TangoEchoAlpha said:
Well, I actually was keeping my right hand on the throttle the whole time. My previous CFI told me to keep my hands on the throttle. Then again, we were practicing maneuvers such as turns, straight and level, descents, climbs in no particular order.
My previous
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Looks like you got cut off there.

Leaving a hand on the throttle at all times isn't necessary in most airplane. Having a hand on the throttle during critical times of flight when the throttle is not expected to be moved (say during a takeoff), is recommended.

Some call this "guarding" the throttle and many also recommend not holding on to it tightly in case of turbulence, rearward seat movement, etc. Also in larger aircraft the takeoff setting may not be "firewalled" so bumping it around by accident may be undesirable.

In something like a Cessna where firewalled is the likely position desired, I like to not hang on with fingers but place my hand flat behind the throttle after it's forward for takeoff. If I get personally bounced around or moved rearward by the ubiquitous Cessna seat track sillliness, I won't be going rearward pulling on the throttle to idle.

And of course any time you're actually needing to move it, you'll have ahold of it then, also.

What your instructor may have been teaching is that during maneuvering you need your hand up there to adjust as needed. Might as well keep it there.

In cruise with a properly working friction lock, you can treat that hand to a break so it can do things like tune radios, follow checklists, write down clearances, and generally be more useful than leaving it on the throttle.

You'll learn that the most likely cause of rearward throttle movement in life, is having a CFI on board who always asks this interesting question when they pull it to idle when you're not guarding it: "Engine seems to have died. Hmm."

As you start doing your emergency engine failure flow and checklist. :)
 
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