One dead in SF Area (CCR) crash

Tampico Trauma

Tampico Trauma

Line Up and Wait
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Mauled Formerly known as Tampico Trauma
Yecch. I haven't heard about that one.

There IS a charted transmission line out there. 20 knot gusty winds at CCR, not a great day to be flying low over the mountains.
 
A Bo or a Citabria? Those two aircraft are so dissimilar. Why are they the two types being tossed around?
 
SkyDog58 said:
A Bo or a Citabria? Those two aircraft are so dissimilar. Why are they the two types being tossed around?
Click to expand...

Poor comma placement.

Based on who departed CCR, there was a Bo, or a Citabria that departed about 20min later. The Citabria was pipeline patrol, which there are plenty that run through that corridor... and low and slow and gusty are likely. Neither of them were on FF, so after they left CCR D, they were nordo.

My guess is the Citabria. :(


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Of course, it could be a completely different aircraft altogether.... I was just listening to tapes to see if I could hear anything that would lead me to an answer.


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Ah, I understand what you wrote now. You heard a Bo depart and a Citabria depart and thought it was one of them. For some reason, I thought someone had reported that the airplane appeared to be one of the two. I guess I read far too much between the lines. A bad habit I have sometimes.
 
I'm reading between the lines on the audio, but I'm feeling like there was an issue before takeoff based on the audio and change in his voice after cancelling his t/o request.


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The man who passed was a friend. He was a corporate pilot for multiple local companies flying King Airs and Citations pretty actively as well as a CFII in my club. Comes to a shock to me because he was meticulous when it came to maintaining our club planes. That particular area has a lot of flat area including one abandoned airfield, the mention in news articles that he may have hit a powerline must have been it. This is the 3rd aviation friend of mine that has passed since I started flying in 09'. Each has been no less a surprise, all have been what I thought a better pilot than myself.

After listening to the audio, that doesn't sound like him. At all. The wait a minute followed by that unusual voice from him leads me to think there was some kind of medical emergency. That would also explain why he didn't go to the flat empty space very close by to the accident. or there were two people onboard
 
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If it was a Beech 36 N346RM that crashed in Concord yesterday there were two on board and both were fatally injured according to the ASIAS for today.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
The man who passed was a friend. He was a corporate pilot for multiple local companies flying King Airs and Citations pretty actively as well as a CFII in my club. Comes to a shock to me because he was meticulous when it came to maintaining our club planes. That particular area has a lot of flat area including one abandoned airfield, the mention in news articles that he may have hit a powerline must have been it. This is the 3rd aviation friend of mine that has passed since I started flying in 09'. Each has been no less a surprise, all have been what I thought a better pilot than myself.

After listening to the audio, that doesn't sound like him. At all. The wait a minute followed by that unusual voice from him leads me to think there was some kind of medical emergency. That would also explain why he didn't go to the flat empty space very close by to the accident. or there were two people onboard
Click to expand...

First and foremost, sorry for your loss. Not knowing your friend, that was the first thing I picked up on...the change in his voice and tone.

Prayers to his and his passenger's friends and family.



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Yesterday was a scud run kind of day. I can imagine having radio/instrument problems and not wanting to file IFR. The ceilings out in the valley to the east of KCCR were mostly reasonable, so I can imagine getting suckered into just a little scud running near the airport. I can imagine not seeing those wires coming and forgetting they were there. What I don't get with my scenario is, if you're going to scud run out to the valley, why not follow the bay and then the river?

All stuff I made up, but speculation is what these threads are all about really until there is some NTSB reports.
 
I thought the ceilings were 7000-9000 around the Bay yesterday. Though my sightings were further south.
 
Vance Breese said:
If it was a Beech 36 N346RM that crashed in Concord yesterday there were two on board and both were fatally injured according to the ASIAS for today.
Click to expand...

Ok thank you. All local news sources kept reporting 1 person. The change in voice was a tipoff of being a medical issue. Knowing two were onboard, likely mechanical and that hesitation to takeoff was likely mechanical, especially since they asked for a radio check.
My friend was likely acting as the CFI. I'm in shock by the event. Interested to see what the NTSB comes up with
 
Reported ceilings in the vicinity before the crash were above 4,000.

KCCR 251953Z 19006KT 10SM SCT042 OVC110 20/11 A3007 RMK AO2 PK WND 19027/1905 RAB36E45 SLP168 P0001 T02000111
KCCR 251853Z 18006KT 10SM OVC042 21/11 A3006 RMK AO2 RAB23E42 SLP167 P0000 T02060106

KSUU 251958Z AUTO 16007KT 8SM -RA OVC044 18/14 A3007 RMK AO2 RAB46 SLP189 P0001 T01780141 $
KSUU 251946Z AUTO 16007KT 10SM -RA OVC043 18/14 A3007 RMK AO2 RAB46 $
KSUU 251858Z AUTO 15008KT 10SM FEW033 OVC048 18/13 A3006 RMK AO2 DZB08E18RAB32E43 SLP186 P0000 T01800131 $
KSUU 251843Z AUTO 17006KT 10SM OVC049 18/13 A3007 RMK AO2 DZB08E18RAB32E43 $
KSUU 251832Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM -RA FEW033 OVC049 17/13 A3006 RMK AO2 DZB08E18RAB32 $
KSUU 251818Z AUTO 13004KT 10SM OVC049 17/13 A3006 RMK AO2 DZB08E18 $
KSUU 251808Z AUTO 14003KT 10SM -DZ OVC048 17/14 A3006 RMK AO2 DZB08 $

KSAC 251853Z AUTO 17004KT 10SM BKN060 BKN070 OVC100 18/14 A3008 RMK AO2 RAB38E53 SLP186 P0000 T01780139

KSCK 251955Z 14006KT 10SM -RA SCT070 BKN090 OVC100 19/13 A3007 RMK AO2 RAB11 SLP183 P0000 T01890133
KSCK 251855Z 15006KT 10SM SCT080 OVC110 19/12 A3009 RMK AO2 SLP189 T01940117

(Observations at KSAC were missing after the crash, for some reason.)
 
Just an update on this. Trying not to give out more information than I am supposed to know but. There were two people on the plane. It was a training flight for the owner demonstrating the features of the gtn750 and some new autopilot I have never heard of. Multiple witnesses reported the engine WAS running and apparently the track showed a normal climb out followed by an abrupt turn and dive. Took 9 seconds from the change in attitude to hitting the ground. My experience is that about that area I am climbing through about 3000-3500 feet so that suggests the plane descended quickly. I also heard that all but a very small few of plane and body parts were able to fit in a dustpan. The NTSB intends to rebuild the plane in Sacramento and a full report probably won't be released for at least 12 months.
Apparently there is some audio they uncovered that hasn't been heard. Maybe a distress call on 121.5? I'll update if I hear anything else. I am still in a state of disbelief.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
Just an update on this. Trying not to give out more information than I am supposed to know but. There were two people on the plane. It was a training flight for the owner demonstrating the features of the gtn750 and some new autopilot I have never heard of. Multiple witnesses reported the engine WAS running and apparently the track showed a normal climb out followed by an abrupt turn and dive. Took 9 seconds from the change in attitude to hitting the ground. My experience is that about that area I am climbing through about 3000-3500 feet so that suggests the plane descended quickly. I also heard that all but a very small few of plane and body parts were able to fit in a dustpan. The NTSB intends to rebuild the plane in Sacramento and a full report probably won't be released for at least 12 months.
Apparently there is some audio they uncovered that hasn't been heard. Maybe a distress call on 121.5? I'll update if I hear anything else. I am still in a state of disbelief.
Click to expand...

Oh crap, I hope it isn't what I think it is.
 
arnoha said:
That report doesn't make sense to me. A Bo in a normal climbout should have been at 200' before even getting to the airport fence off any of CCR's runways. 19R is 5000 feet long. Was hitting lines what caused the issue or something that happened on the way down?
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There was no way that the power lines caused this.

Now wires behind a panel? That could bind up on a control.....

But the guy who was PIC was definitely not a scudrunner.


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What would cause that high rate of descent? Spin?

RIP
 
Spontaneous autopilot failure?

I'm still betting on wiring binding on controls.

Something didn't sound right prior to takeoff. Was it an unsatisfactory flight control check? Was the A/P not disengaging? Did it go FUBAR?

There are only two logical conclusions.... but we'll never truly know based on what's left to sift through :(


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It could be anything from a flight control issue, fuel leak, cockpit fire, bird strike, prop failure...too early to tell. Sorry for the loss.
 
Tampico Trauma said:
Spontaneous autopilot failure?

I'm still betting on wiring binding on controls.

Something didn't sound right prior to takeoff. Was it an unsatisfactory flight control check? Was the A/P not disengaging? Did it go FUBAR?

There are only two logical conclusions.... but we'll never truly know based on what's left to sift through :(


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Click to expand...

Autopilots don't usually have enough force so you can't overcome their control.
What you're betting is plausible, and very scary. Maybe not wiring, but perhaps they had to undo something that they forgot to tighten properly, or something like that. That could explain why first flight was successful.

All in all - unexplainable LOC events scare the bejezus out of me.
 
I have two ridiculous fears as a 270hr
Ppl... an LOC incident and a spontaneous structural deficiency


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Well, the report rules out power lines as the cause. That never made sense. They just happened to be in the way after things had already gone very sideways. Hope they find the cause, as having a sudden LOC in VFR conditions unrelated to any obvious obstruction or external impediment by two experienced pilots is a sobering thought.
 
colojo said:
As you become more experienced those will be replaced by loss of power during takeoff and midair collision.
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And still more experienced, it's extreme turbulence and structural icing, or else loss of engine power in night IMC.
 
arnoha said:
Well, the report rules out power lines as the cause. That never made sense. They just happened to be in the way after things had already gone very sideways.
Click to expand...

My thought as well. If NTSB's quoted rate of descent is correct (5000 fpm), that sounds far too fast for a spin, right? If there were two experienced pilots aboard, that pretty much rules out a medical issue, unless both of them were simultaneously overcome with CO poisoning or something. I know that structural/control linkage failures are very rare, but I wonder if it could've been the cause here.

A very sad situation. My condolences to you, Golfpilot. I've had a couple of acquaintances die in plane crashes, but never someone I consider a close friend.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
My thought as well. If NTSB's quoted rate of descent is correct (5000 fpm), that sounds far too fast for a spin, right? If there were two experienced pilots aboard, that pretty much rules out a medical issue, unless both of them were simultaneously overcome with CO poisoning or something. I know that structural/control linkage failures are very rare, but I wonder if it could've been the cause here.

A very sad situation. My condolences to you, Golfpilot. I've had a couple of acquaintances die in plane crashes, but never someone I consider a close friend.
Click to expand...

...and I'd call CO poisoning a mechanical cause anyway, but that's picking nits. 5000 fpm doesn't sound too off for a spin in a Bo, but it does feel too slow for an in-flight breakup. If I'm reading the report right, it seems to indicate a single debris field, anyway, which suggests it was not an in-flight breakup. Still, this feels mechanical to me. Or small possibility, a bird.

@TheGolfPilot , also, condolences. I can't imagine. Actually, scratch that, I can: while I haven't had anyone I know die flying, I have had that experience while motorcycling. It's...awful. I'm trying to make sure my speculation is respectful, but still, if you want me to stop, just say the word.
 
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